Hi All,
After some feedback and study here and over at Audioholics, I've ordered M60Ti, VP150, QS8 to go with my Yami V2600 from the Factory Outlet (to offset some of the shipping / tax charges to Syd Aust.). I've since seen that PSB has a local distributor over here (but yet to audition) and asked on the Audioholics board about the following comparision:
- Axiom M60Ti Vs. PSB Image 6T
- Axiom VP150 Vs. PSB Image 8C
- Axiom QS8 Vs. PSB Image 10s
So far the replies have all been for the PSB's over the Axiom and given they are a lot cheaper (60% of the Axiom Price for me in Oz) thought I better get some options from you fine folks, especially if you have hear the PSB's.
Any thoughts?
Thanks Again
Nathan
Hi Nathan. I haven't heard the PSBs, but they are a very well-regarded company. If you have doubts, your best bet may be to do a side by side comparison. It sounds like you've already ordered the Axioms. Ask your local dealer if he will allow an in home demo. Best way to decide for yourself which speaker you like best.
What kind of speakers do you have now? Do you have a preference for a particular type of sound?
Nathan, if you do a search for:
psb psbs
change "phrase" to "or"
There are all kinds of threads regarding PSB comparisons with Axioms on this board.
Thanks guys, I've already read back a few years on similar posts and the seem to be well regarded. I do have the Axiom's on order and while not a audiophile by any stretch of imagination, I know from what I've heard I prefered the broad open sound stage (and invisibility) of the Focal.JM lab Chorus 716 over say the (to me) muddy compressed sound stage of the B&W 603 series. I also prefer the sound from full size fronts (very unimpressed with all the micro set ups!).
As I'm in Aust I really can not compare them side by side, and wanted to know the "relative value for money" given the PSB's are only 60% of the price of the Axiom pack I've ordered.
Thanks
Nathan
At first I was concerned about the price difference but after digging a bit I stopped worrying. The 6Ts are the previous generation of PSB floorstanders, more ore less replaced by the T65s. I auditioned the "xT" series of PSBs before buying Axioms and found them a bit rough, sort of a "rock" speaker. The newest PSBs are supposed to be a bit smoother and are probably a better match for the Axioms.
The 8C is PSB's equivalent of the VP100, not the VP150. I haven't heard it but it's probably comparable although again it is from the "xT" series -- the current PSBs are the C40 and C60, where a C40 seems to replace the 8C and the C60 seems to replace the 9C.
Regarding surrounds, I don't think I have ever seen a review which doesn't say the QS8s are the best of the bunch, so I think it's safe to say you made a good choice there. The PSB 10S is supposed to be pretty good though...
Bottom line; if you want a fair price comparison, use the T65s, C60 and S50s for comparison, not the 6Ts and the 8C. If your local dealer only has the previous line of speakers, at least use the 9c for comparison.
If you do an apples-to-apples comparison and still find the PSBs to be considerably cheaper, I would think hard about going with PSBs just for the cost. They will be nice speakers. Not better than the Axioms, but definitely comparable.
What is funny, is Axiom is generally known to be the best bang for the buck in audiophile speakers. I'm suprised something could be that much cheaper, we must not be comparing apples to apples in quality/sound. I don't know, I've never heard PSB's.
I compare my m60's to be very similar to the B&W 703's, which cost a lot more. For surrounds, I've never heard any other brand speaker at any cost that gives you the experience of the Qs8's. We don't need to discuss the subs, we know how great they are, especially the EP500/600. Also, the VP150 is one of the best centers I've owned.
good luck mate.
This isn't so much a "PSB to Axiom" comparison (we know how that works out) but measuring the impact of shipping one system at a time to the other side of the planet vs. shipping a containerload to a distributor. Within North America the cost premium for rapid shipment of a single system is pretty low, but as you get further away from NA the equation doesn't hold up so well.
Remember the guy from Oman ? Shipping costs >> speaker costs ;(
The fact that these are a previous generation of PSB with a smaller center channel doesn't help -- even Axiom can't always compete with clearout prices
Jmone (Nathan),
It depends on which PSB series you are talking about. During many yeas as an editor of Canadian AV magazines, I did double-blind listening comparisons at Canada's National Research Council with PSB, Axiom, Paradigm, Energy, Mirage and many other brands.
Generally speaking, Axiom's models are more neutral and transparent than PSB's Image series. The Axioms are comparable to the PSB Stratus series. The Axiom M60ti or M80ti, for example, would be comparable to the PSB Stratus Gold or Stratus Silver, and a lot less costly.
Regards,
Hi Nathan,
Before buying my Axiom's I was going to buy some PSB's. They are good speakers. My brother has PSB's along with a velodyne sub they good. I was researching for a few months and I was ready to buy PSB. I went down to Los Angeles to visit my sister and DMC electronics is a few miles from her house so I decided to stop in for a listen. The show room was not set up (in my opinion) correctly. Basically everything was in one room. No a dedicated HT.
The t65 which I was interested in sounded ok. My brother in law who came along with me liked them so much he bought a pair. I listened to the stratus line and then the Platinum. Platinum was great but $4999. for a blemish pair was a bit to much for me. I decided to wait and do a little more research. I found out that Axiom used to make the speakers for PSB.
I think I did not get the PSB 's that day because my brother in law got them. I hate having the same things as he does. You have to know him to understand why. A few more weeks went by audition here and there. Talking to AXIOM and the members here. With all the good things I was hearing about them I went ahead and bought them. I was not afraid about buying speakers that I have not yet listened to because of the return policy.
After owning my Axiom's now for 2 months I can absolutely say I love them and made a good choice in getting them. In my opinion and I am not an audiophile by no means my M60's sounds closet to the PSB Stratus Gold. When I visit my sister and listen to their PSB I think they sound good. When they come here they think mine sounds GREAT. When I pop in a movie they are blown away.
$699 for PSB T65's
$810 for M60's from factory outlet plus another 5% for ordering more than 5 items
$1499 for PSB Stratus Gold
If you want bang for the buck the T65 is it. If you really want bang for the buck, value and performance M60.
Good luck and have fun
I have the PSB 5t's and love them. They are a bit older but are still in the image line. I've only heard the Axiom M22 bookshelf speakers and they leave a little to be desired in my opinion. Don't get me wrong they are a great little speaker and sound great for such a small package. I would just prefer a larger speaker.
The M60's are a tower and that strikes my fancy but there is one problem. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they are rear ported. That means they have to be pulled from the wall a ways and when you are as poor as me and already have limited space that becomes a problem. Not to mention they are meant to be in a Large room correct.
This means in the world of axiom when you have a small to medium room your opitons are limited to the dinky bookselfs and the m45's (not sure on the model), which are a whole different animal as I understand it(word of mouth).
The 5t's fit in my between small and medium room well. so I don't have a problem there. When coupled with a Stratus Subsonic 7 it sounds great. I just received as Denon 1083 and I really like it. my Center is an 8c and 50s's to backup up the system. I was looking at the qs8's but I didnt' want to mismatch the system.
I don't like telling that one speaker is better than the another. HT system is exactly that a system. If the components don't match they will sound like crap.
Then my last point is, personal preferance. Everybody is different and that's why products are that diverse. I would Never buy a pair of shoes without trying them on. Same with speakers, if I can't hear them with a amp like mine I look in other places.
Just my opinion and no flaming please(first post).
That was an interesting first post.
I think there will be a few members that will have comments about the small to medium size room issue in reguards to the Axiom M50,M60, and even the M80.
I don't even know where to start on this one Wid or Tharkun, pretty much everything that was stated has no validity. My guess is that he has been listening to the trolls over at AVS.
ha ha
Just to com
Hi 302 and welcome!
A lot of folks here have speakers other than Axiom! And we're honestly glad to hear that you like your 5t's!!
I get the feeling that you may have gotten some wrong impressions of Axiom!
Yeah, really!
For instance we don't like new shoes that don't fit either! I tried the Axiom 30 day free trial with my equipment in my own room when I bought mine, and kept them; plus another five more later!!(speakers,...not shoes)
Anyway, we talk about lots of other things related to audio, and tons of stuff that isn't! So pick a subject and join on in!! Who knows; you may find that Axiom ain't so bad when you find out more after all!
Seriously, your honest opinions are valued and welcome here!
Rich.
302 is right in that Axiom doesn't offer anything directly comparable to either the Image 5 or the Paradigm Monitor 5 (a mid-sized speaker with something like M50 driver complement). The argument, I guess, is that once you add in the cost of stands you are at pretty much the same price point as the same drivers in a floorstanding cabinet, ie make the box bigger and get better bass rather than a smaller box plus stands. There are good arguments for both points of view, of course.
Having said that, I am not a big believer in the theory that rear ported speakers need to be placed significantly differently from front ported speakers. Ian puts ports on front and rear (except for the bookshelves where there is no space on the front), presumably to even out the bass response in a typical room, so the Axiom floorstanders are kind of half way between front and rear ported.
I have had to pull front ported speakers AND sealed speakers way out from the wall to get what I consider to be smooth bass response... I guess I could be convinced that the Axioms need to be pulled out another 6 inches but that would be it...
In reply to:
The M60's are a tower and that strikes my fancy but there is one problem. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they are rear ported. That means they have to be pulled from the wall a ways and when you are as poor as me and already have limited space that becomes a problem. Not to mention they are meant to be in a Large room correct.
No flames? Fair enough. However, I would like to correct some gross misconceptions. We wouldn't want to mislead anyone coming here to learn the facts, would we?
The M60s are rear ported, BUT need only 3 inches, or so, space behind them. If your space is so limited you can't afford 3 inches, then a LOT of very fine speakers aren't going to work in your room.
Meant to be in a large room? Define "large." I've successfully used M60 in a room 11.5 x 18 x 8. There are others here who've successfully used them in rooms considerably smaller than that.
In reply to:
This means in the world of axiom when you have a small to medium room your options are limited to the dinky bookselfs and the m45's (not sure on the model), which are a whole different animal as I understand it(word of mouth).
My response above shows that in a small to medium room, based on personal experience rather than word of mouth, one's options are NOT limited. Also, there are many "dinky bookshelf speakers" which sound fantastic, and just might embarrass your 5ts as well as the M60s. You can't judged by size alone. And finally, there is no Axiom M45 speaker.
In reply to:
HT system is exactly that a system. If the components don't match they will sound like crap.
Pretty broad generality. I've used QS8s with Rockets, and was just fine with that. I know of someone who uses QS8s with Ascends, and LOVES the combination. So, while I believe having matched surrounds is optimal, it's a tad extreme to label unmatched ones as "crap."
In reply to:
Then my last point is, personal preferance. Everybody is different and that's why products are that diverse. I would Never buy a pair of shoes without trying them on. Same with speakers, if I can't hear them with a amp like mine I look in other places.
Then you DEFINITELY should try Axioms. Not only can you hear them with you own amp, but you can listen to them for up to 30 days in your OWN ROOM and all your other equipment. You may return them, with a full refund of you purchase price, within 30 days for any reason, paying only return shipping to Buffalo, NY.
If you don't want to pay for return shipping on an entire system, then purchase only a pair of main speakers. If you like their sound, you'll like the rest of the speakers and can order them. If you don't like them, you only have to pay to return 2 speakers.
Thank you Jack, knew if I waited you would say what I was thinking.
B3, especially for someone making a first post, the use of terms such as "dinky" appears to be intentionally provocative.
Wid, that was the exact phrase that sprung to my mind.
Jack,
I think 302 meant the PSB t45, which is PSB's smallest tower speaker.
Guys,
I should make a confession, since I don't want you to gang up on 302, he received the Denon from me. He likes what the Denon has done for his system. I can live without it. He is my son. We have been having a friendly debate for quite some time. That debate concerns the qualities of these two brand of speakers. He is certain that the PSB image line is superior to the Axioms. I've been hanging on because I don't really know. I am looking for an amp/M22ti combination that I actually like. I have tried to believe that there isn't a difference between amp manufacturers, but I am having a problem with that. Please be kind to 302, he's a righteous dude and the apple of my eye.
Bruce
Hi Bruce!
Ah yes,...the M45! I remember discussing that concept, oh...'bout a year ago!
So that's how your Son got the number! Cool.
Tell him then; as I already have: that He's more than welcome here, and to join right in!
Even more so; now that we know where he's coming from!
Rich.
Bruce, If I offended I apologize. Your son is most welcome here.
I just didn't want anyone coming here seeking information to be unintentionally misled.
Quote from Alan on page 1 of this thread.
"The Axioms are comparable to the PSB Stratus series. The Axiom M60ti or M80ti, for example, would be comparable to the PSB Stratus Gold or Stratus Silver, and a lot less costly.
"
Sorry if I affended anyone, if didn't mean to. I didn't realize that you only needed 3 inches of clearance for the m60's. I have more than that now. What size room are the M60's designed for. I just listen to my dads HT whoes and Thats where I got the idea of the M60's need a lot of room.
I was just stating what I've seen and I've never talked HT on the internet before other than SACD. AVS troll huh, getting defensive are we. I've never heard a pair of M60's just m22's. They are not for me.
BTW, the midrange ones I was talking about were the M40's not the M45's, sorry. The PSB T45's suck ass, they are in the same line but sound more like a bookshelf then the tower.
Shoes, your right. Speakers are not shoes, how observant of you. just joking! I just meant that different people like different speakers and you need to try them out for yourself. I don't like that internet thing because you can't compare different speakers side by side. That is how I found that I like the canadian sound better. Plus, listening to klipsch is like having a pen stuck in your ear.
The M60's are tempting, but I told myself not to spend anymore money for a while on my HT System. If the room size for the M60's is what you say it is I would say that bruce should dump the m22's for some M60's but thats just me.
One last thing, there are some small speakers that will beat the crap out of my towers. I would just have to sell my kidneys to buy them. I rather have my kidneys.
Hi 302!
Ever been to the AVS forum? There are a few guys,(trolls)over there with their own agendas who find it the greatest of fun to trash Axiom incessently! It can either be ammusing or annoying depending on your outlook!
HT can be lots of fun too! And comparing internet speakers side by side is easy if you want to try more than one internet company at a time and don't mind return shipping costs for the looser!....or LooserS!! But that can get pretty pricy!
Canadian sound?
...can't get much more Canadian than Axiom!!
Remember; Ian; along with Paul, and a few others, are the co-writers of the Canadian speaker manifesto!!
I know not all Canadians sound the same, just depends on which dialect you prefer; eh?
When you talk about the M22s and M40s, you are discussing the two speakers in the Axiom line that are about as far apart from each other as you can possibly get!! The M22s(andM2s)are the most accurate but lightest/thinnest sounding. While the(discontinued)M40 was the warmest, most "tube"like sounding of the bunch!
I know you've probably gone over this before with your Dad, but I'll try to give "MY"(quick)take on it:
Bookshelf speakers.
M2 and M22; Take-no-prisoners accurate, Tell it like it is, no appologies!! M22 has more bass than M2.
M3; Neutral. Friendly though! Nobody dosen't like these guys! Will not annoy unless the recording is neigh unlistenable from the git-go!
Good music sounds really good; great music sounds, uh..really good.
Floorstanders:
M40 and M50. M40; warmer than M3s but tons more bass, M50 slightly more foreward than M3s but tons more bass. Not quite as much bass and not quite as foreward sounding or as accurate as the...
M60s,.. and M80s: See M22 and M2. M60 has tons more bass, M80 has tons more bass and the abillity to rupture your eardrums at 75ft while you're saying "Wow, that's clean"!!
Ok....now, if you're curious, you can spend lots of fun time going through the products pages of this web site and all the reviews published.
And even if you aren't interested in Axiom, well,...sometimes it helps during a friendly argument if you know more about: the "enemy"
Have fun
Rich.
302,
You will discover that Rich knows alot about HT, and he never says s#&% a$$ and c@!p.
Thanks for the Info Rich. This almost makes me want to try some M60's. Now only if I had $800.
Ask your dad for it.
>>> Ask your dad for it. <<<
Yea, that's what I'd do ... I bet he's 'righteous'.
302, I was not saying your a troll, but what I said was that maybe you've been hearing things on other forums from trolls. Believe me, I spent years on AVSforum, and was told by many people that Axioms are very bright and harsh, they could not have been the farthest from the truth. The M60's are fabulous speakers with detailed accuracy true to the recording, and killer tight bass. Keep in mind, if the cd your listening to was recorded poorly, the Axiom's will bring those flaws out, that is not the fault of Axiom.
There has to be someone in your part of the US, that can audition some m60's for you. Have you checked the audition forum?
Welcome, I think you and the old man are the first father/son members, that deserves a free EP500.
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you 302; I was(heh heh heh)busy talkin with your Dad.
Well, you DO have a head start on the M60 question; you have at least heard the M22s!
From what I gather, the M60s have nearly the same midrange sound as the M22s, but, looking at the graphs for both, there may be a slight difference up around 4K to 5K.
Will it "sound" different,...dunno, but it's a thought.
The big difference, of course is in the bass and perhaps the overall presence of the beast.
A lot of folks are happy with the M60 in medium size rooms, so they may work physically in yours!
As for the cost.....hmmmmm
Now we go from engineering into procurement!
Hey, at least you're gettin' into lookin' around and having fun!
The hunt is sometimes more fun than the kill!
Rich.
That gives me an Idea, If I buy the M60's and someone donates me an EP500 I can move my PSB fronts and sub downstairs. Then I can set up a Linux box to play MP3's.
Just a thought! LOL
Sod that! since this is my thread shouldn't I get the EP500??? I've found a place in Syd that apparantly can audition the PSB's, so if I get time this week I'll wander in....(still have my order in for the Axioms!! Still wanting to add a sub to suit to the order but that EP500 will add ANOTHER A$2K - US$1.5K to the order!)
Thanks
Nathan
shoot, I thought is was my thread now. lol
Is the ep500 1500 USD? I'll need a donation to be able to eat. That costs more than My entire car stereo. Then again, so does my sub.
Peace, try not to let your things control you.
Tom
The EP500 is US$1,150 less 10% for FO, less 5% for group shipping, then for me add 15% for Australian Tax/Duty = approx US$1,150 + an additional US$350 or so for shipping to Oz (and thats just for the SUB!). Hence my question of price/performace Vs the PSB's (and I assume other brands with local distributors) that can import in bulk (or mfr locally) potentially making them "comparitivly better value for money".
Trouble is I already want to be an "Axiomite" & I've not even heard the buggers.....Don't you just love this "hobby"!!!!
Thanks
Nathan
You just had to say that, didn't you.
302, you better hurry. 2/17 appears to be D-day around here.
Or you could order me a pair from the FO. Then I would be sure to get them by Father's Day.
I think a pair of M22s would do fine in the basement. Or you could talk to Tharkun, since he's putting M80s in his garage.
After being without the 80s for 3 months and having them back, talk all you want, they are not leaving here now that I have found a place to use them.
I already said that the M22's are to small for my taste. M60's upstairs after christmas and EP500 for my birthday. Then PSB's downstairs.
Well, I'm about to get a promotion at work so I might be able to afford some of this stuff. I wanted the a DLP to replace my junky RCA but I'm still thinking.
jmone, I see what your saying about wanting to be an axiomite by being on this site. It's got me excited, but I still would need to audition some m60's. According to the list, Winnepeg is the closest. Time for a road trip, I like visiting Canada. This time I better get my birth certificate. Then Me and my girlfriend can go to the bar.
Unless I already affended him.
Peace,
Tom
Well the PSB "dealer" that I went to had a single 5.1 sat only - didn't bother staying.....
Well since no one donated a EP500 I just added one to my order. Now the wait......I fell like an expectant father - everyone is telling me how good it will be, I just hope everyone is right!
You will not be disappointed!!
Congrats on the order!
Congrats and be sure to add your vote to the poll.
POLL
Done, added my vote. But now I'm even voting for something I don't have, have never heard and I'm still proud!
Well, after a 6 week wait for the FO (and months of research), I see that the shipment has made it in 48hrs from Canada to Australia, and would you belive it I will be away for a week on business! Looking forward to unboxing, my MT60's, VP150, QS8's and an EP500. I sooooo hope I'll love them........