I just recieved my ep500 and it's way more than I expected. It out weighted my pdr12 by 60lbs! I have Paradigm monitor 11's for fronts and 7's for rears. I found that setting both front and rears to large made everything blend better. I have the ep500 set at half and bypass. The volume is about 8 o'clock. My room is 16x20x8. When I set my speakers to small the ep500 is way too noticeable. It seems like most people like the small setting. Could someone explain if I'm hearing right?
This will explain better than I can.
LINK
Puffwar,
Not all people set their main speakers to small. I've used a crossover of 55Hz with my M60s for years. See this
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Do what sounds good to you. There are no set "rules" about how you have to set up your home system.
Have you used an SPL meter to calibrate your speakers (balance thier volume levels)? What crossover frequency setting are you using?
Puff, welcome. If your EP500 is "way too noticeable" then you haven't calibrated your system correctly and the sub is set too loud. The impression should be that you don't hear the sub as a separate sound source, but rather that the other speakers set small are putting out the bass.
I'm using the bypass on the subwoofer. My reciever, Denon 5700, doesn't have a crossover setting.
Actually, when you set the speakers to small, the receiver sets a crossover of 80 Hz, which is generally considered appropriate. Perhaps there is a problem here with the settings?
It depends on your room size and the listening material - movies, music, classics or the rock.
I have a pretty large room - 28'x16'x9' and I keep the volume on EP500 at about 7 o'clock (receiver level at zero) and the trim on 'Flat'. Otherwise it does sound (and measure) too loud, especially for listening to music. For movies it' OK.
If you have a sound pressure level meter, run the test tones from the receiver and check. But don't rely on the meter too much. For instance, the meter's readings depend on which measuring curve you are using - A or C. The C curve, usually recommended, imitates the human ear for loud sounds. The A curve mimics the human hearing at low volume. The readings at A and C setting are vastly different - what shows as 80dB on C curve can be 65 dB on A curve. It corresponds to the fact that your ears are more sensitive to the bass at high volume.
So, the result is that your ears are a pretty accurate meter as well, trust them. The sub should sound level should be approximately the the same as the main channel, may be a bit louder, depends on your taste. Get it higher for movies and lower it for classical music. Does the human speech sound too chesty? Lower the sub volume a bit. Does it sound that the orchestra doesn't have enough bass support? Raise up the volume. There is no fixed settings.
Setting speakers to small on Denon 5700 sets all the crossover points at 80 kHz which should be acceptable.
I set my M60 at 70kHz and the central speaker VP150 at 100 kHz. To me these settings provide the smoothest transition from the speaker to the sub. I'm not sure your receiver allows for independent settings.
I listen to 70%music 30%movies. My reciever manual says if you speakers go below 80 to set them to large. It has a different bass setting where I can set either 'subwoofer only THX' or 'Front and Subwoofer'. The manual says set it to 'front and subwoofer' if you have front speakers that go down to 20. I have also biwired my fronts and that seems to produce more mids/highs. It's not a huge difference but my wife and I both can tell it's a little more defined.
In reply to:
My reciever manual says if you speakers go below 80 to set them to large
Also, on page 19 of the 5700 manual it states:
"For the majority of speaker system configurations, using the SMALL setting for all five main speakers and Subwooofer On with a connected
subwoofer will yield the best results.
I figured I'd chime in with my findings this weekend. I originally set my all my speakers to small on my Pioneer VSX74. I'm running M60s in the front, VP150 center, QS4 rears, and a SVS 25-31PCI sub. I calibrated with SPL and had the SVS running about 3db hot over the other speakers.
For some reason the sound just didn't seem to "right" to me. With 5.1 it was good, but any broadcast pro logic sounds, or 2 channel stereo was missing something. I recalibrated with the M60s as large and I feel it gave me a better overall sound across all listening options.
I agree that it is all about how it sounds. In your room, your ears work the best.
Another option I wish the Pioneer supported was different speakers setings per MCACC. I can have different MCACC presets but the speakers sizes are global across every preset.
I'm not exactly sure what happens between large/small when the crossover remains at 80hz. I'm assuming below 80hz is set to sub either way but for some reason it sounds different to me. Hopefully someone can explain this to me
When the mains are set to 80 then everyting below 80 is sent to the sub.
When the mains are set to large and the sub is set ON then the mains are getting the full bandwidth AND the full bandwith is sent to the sub (where it's LFPed at 80). On some receivers this option is called "Double Bass".
I prefer my mains reset to large when listening to 2 channel. I also prefer no sub for most music listening. Bach fugues and tocattas with the sub
Gena,
Thank you, perfect answer and explains why I prefer setting the M60s to large. I listen to a lot of 2 channel on the system and I was missing the "fullness" I wanted when they were set to small.
Now to get Pioneer to make individual MCACC speaker size settings!
So the the sub is still reciever all the bass from the fronts even if it's set to Large?
It depends on the receiver. My receiver, Onkyo 703, has two options for the sub when the mains set to Large:
(1) LFE effects only. That is all the regular audio is played full bandwidth by the mains and the sub is getting only the LFE channel, the .1 one, if you are listening to 5.1 disc. If it's a regular stereo, that is 2/0, the sub will be silent.
(2) Double bass. That is the sub is getting the same sound that goes to the mains. In addition to the LFE, of course.
Puff et al, this has gotten a bit tangled-up over the bass management settings. When the mains are set "large", they get the full-range, including all the bass that's in their channels. In the usually suggested subwoofer setting, which may be termed "SWFR", "LFE" or whatever, the sub gets none of the bass in the "large" main channels; it gets the low frequency effects(LFE)sometimes present in movies and also the low bass from speakers set "small". Receivers commonly have an optional subwoofer setting, generally not recommended in most cases, which may be termed "both". "double", "plus", etc. in which besides any LFE and bass from "small" speakers the sub also gets the low bass that the "large" mains also play.
Since I listen to alot of 5 ch stereo I'll bet the large setting is ok b/c my rears are set to small which means all the low bass is still getting to my subwoofer. I need to listen more when it comes to movies in dolby digital or DTS. That seems like what is being said. Small with movies-large with music depending on speakers and room too. In my case I think that's the way to go.