Just ordered a pair of M80's. These will be driven by the Outlaw Receiver RR 2150.

Anyone else using Outlaw to drive the M80's? The Outlaw is rated at 160 watts/channel into 4 ohms so I am assuming that will be plenty of power to drive these speakers.

The room is 22'x24' with a 20' ceiling with overflow into several other large rooms. Should give these speakers enough breathing room.

Hey pab, welcome to the forum. Other forum members use Outlaw products to drive their speakers. Although I don't have any experience with the RR2150, I'd say it should be fine driving your new M80s. Outlaw is not shy with power. Sounds like you have a pretty big listening area. The M80s should work well in there. Enjoy your new speaks.

I use a 990/7700 combo (300 watts into 4 ohms) to drive my M80's and 99% of the time it's plenty. Although there are times I'd like to try maybe a Classe or Mac mono block at 4 or 500 watts just to see. At anything other than INSANE listening levels the Outlaws are fine for what they are. I do find that the M80's tend to open up a bit more and get a much warmer richer sound though at mid to moderate levels. Which makes me think that even the 7700 might be "just" enough to drive them well. I truly believe that they want some serious power behind them to show off their capabilities, even at lower volumes. Also have an EP600. The room they are in is roughly 14,000 sqf and it gets filled up fine. You may want to think about a sub too depending on your listening pleasures.

So will the 2150 work? Yes, but I'm a believer in buying as much power as you can afford within reason. Besides, you never know when you might want it!

I should mention that I have two Sunfire Signature subs for the room. Have had them for about 6 years. They fill the room very nicely. The Axiom subs look like they are great, but for the time being I will stick with my Sunfires'

Robert: have you ever taken a sound meter and measured the level that you are listening?

Just wondering.

I can't imagine M80s at 100 watts, let alone 500 watts!!!

Pab, welcome. The 2150 should be plenty for your M80s in nearly all circumstances. They're slightly above average in sensitivity and don't have any unusually high power requirement. Keep in mind that at a comfortably loud average listening level they'll be using about 1 watt. Brief peaks take much more, of course, depending on the dynamic range of the material being played.

No, haven't taken a sound meter to these particular components. And I understand that 100 watts can be very loud. But my understanding of the way power works, and I could be wrong, is that the lower the ohms, the more power needed to produce the same spl at any given level. Especially in the lower octaves, say in the 40 to 200 hz range, maybe more.

If you are familiar with the Outlaws 7700 / 990 I tend to listen to this setup at anywhere from -25db on the 990 to about -15db when I really want to do serious listening. It goes to +8db on the 990 but I have never actually pushed it to anything into the +'s with a source on. -10db is almost ear splitting.....not my cup of tea. I have no idea what amount of power that the 7700 is really putting out wattage wise. Right at -20db though there is a definite change in the character of the M80's, almost like they say "Yeah baby, I like this power!" They open up, warm up, expand, I don't know. Some one else may have a better term. Any way it's not a "loudness" thing, but a "quality" change that I hear. Any run of the mill amp can play things loud, but the quality is what impresses me. And I think that the Outlaws are a great piece of equipment for the price, how ever I believe that a better amp might have the lower volume fullness on the M80's that the Outlaw only produces at a louder volume.

I'm probably being a bit picky, but it's an audio thing. I have always said that it's fairly easy, relatively inexpensive to reach that 95 to 97% range in audio. But the last 3% or so will cost many many thousands more than I have invested at this point. Some day though!

No, Robert, the impedance of a speaker doesn't necessarily have any relationship to the power it requires to output a given sound level. As was mentioned above, the M80s are slightly above average in sensitivity. For example, they're more sensitive than 8 ohm speakers such as the M3s and M22s, and require less power than them for a given sound level.

Exactly Rat.

114.5dB's at 100watts is plenty, 122dB's at 500+ watts is insane.

John, OK, I sometimes don’t write things out correctly…. here’s what I am trying to say:

Axioms own ratings for the M80’s is : SPL in room 1 watt / 1 meter is 95 db. +/- 3db - 9db in room.

Now for most folks, a 3db difference is fairly audible. I know I can hear it. When we’re talking 9db any one can hear it. So what this means is that if 1 watt produces 95db, then roughly, at 1Mhz, 10 watts should produce 105db, and 100 watts will produce 115db and so on. (I think my math is correct, maybe some of the gurus here can correct it if it’s wrong.)

Anyway, from Axioms own graph:





We can see that beginning at 60hz and down the M80’s are already off by 3db, with another dip of 3db or so at 120-150db or so. These dips in response are very audible. Hence I find myself kicking up the bass on the 990 processor a bit. In order to make up for those 3db or greater losses an amp needs to dig deep into it’s power reserves in order to equal the same volume, spl, for a specific hz level that is lower than the others. Or in my case add an EP 600 for the lower end, especially at lower, normal listening levels the M80’s just don’t cut it on their own.

This is what I think is happening with the Outlaws, as well as many amps I would assume. They reach a point at which those power reserves kick in and they open up more. Get warmer so to speak. Unfortunately even this top end Outlaw doesn’t open up those lower end frequencies until it is starting to crank out some serious power. It would be nice if it would kick in a little sooner. That’s why I say it’s not a “volume” thing as opposed to a “quality” thing. I don’t need to blow the windows out of my house, but I would like the amp to produce the same openness and warmth across ALL listening levels.

And no, it’s not a “My amp has 10 billion watts” thing, it’s the ability of an amp to be able to draw deep into it’s power reserves in order to make up for dips in frequency that a speaker has trouble with. Again, I realize that 100 watts into just about anything is insanely loud. But better amps have the ability to be able to dig deep enough to provide the power needed to fill in the gaps without straining. Normal off the shelf AV receivers generally don’t have this ability. The Outlaws are just barely into this range. At least for my ears. I would bet that some where around this board some one at some point has put a Mac , Classe, or Bryston on a pair of M80’s and thought it improved the sound. However maybe not, cause if you have that kind of $$ you probably are going to take a step up in speakers. Although I have said it before. I have a pair of B&W 704’s and my M80’s are every bit as good, if not better.

Quote:

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with another dip of 3db or so at 120-150db or so.

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Ian has explained this dip before.

"In reference to the little dip and rise at 150 Hz in the M80 compared to the M60; it is just the microphone positioning being up right under the tweeter and only 2 meters back in the anechoic chamber giving it an increased angle of attack on the very tall M80s."

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We can see that beginning at 60hz and down the M80’s are already off by 3db

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This too has been explained.

"The chamber is accurate to 85 Hz and then there is a correction applied below that. For heightened accuracy of measurements below 85 Hz we measure out on our pole in mid air. The pole puts the product and microphone up about 20 feet in the air. The sub graphs above are from the pole. You can see in the NRC graph above of the M60 the bass rolls off quickly below 37 Hz and this trend lines up with the pole measurements of the bass response of an M60, hence the 37 Hz spec."

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