I recently went on UBID.com to see if there were any deals on subs. I think my current plan is to get the M22 with a sub for my home theater. A lot of the subs seemed cheap enough and were in about the price range I was looking for 100-300 US dollars, but I am fairly new at all of this and I have not heard, or heard of a few of the brands. So my question is are there any brands of Subs to generally avoid, and or are there brands of subs that I should generallly look into? Also does anyone know of any other sites auction or non-auction that are offering good deals on subs right now that are worth checking out. I thank you all for the help, Hope to hear from you soon.

Hi KingofOld,

Really inexpensive subs ($100 - $150) aren't subwoofers at all. They're really powered woofers with little output below 40 Hz or a bit lower. They'll help with your M22ti, of course, but don't expect deep bass extension or high output at that price. I would include most of the Japanese-branded "subs" in this category.

Other brands to avoid would include several that have gone through various corporate owners and have been cheapened, such as AR and KLH, once prestigious brand names in the 1960's.

Regards,

I dont know of really any to avoid. That depends on what you want i guess. Have you ever heard of Audio review.com? You can go read through reviews there. That should give you some idea. as long as you can sort through the real reviews and the bs ones. For the price your looking at i suggest you check out the diy kit sub from parts express. Its $350 and no doubt it will demolish the competiton.(except my new faverite speaker company AXIOM of course)

Heres a link to the parts express sub..

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=300-739&DID=7

Two auction/personal ad sites you also may want to peruse:
audiogon.com

canuck audiomart

If you really want cheap, but OK (not great) the KLH 10" from Costco for $80 (after $20 rebate) isn't that bad. It is nowhere near as good as the JBL PB12 for $270. I've seen some people buy two of the KLH's ($160) and they were happy with them.

Michael

lol, funny you mention the KLH, i have one i use in my "ht" which is composed of some of my old stuff. For the price its a good sub. I mean. its got bass, not the best but. for the average person its great. Although, i have the older model. not that new plastic thing i see there now. But i dont reccomend anyone getting it for music. Its just not musical.

The KLH 10" I got from Costco isn't plastic.. It does have plastic feet though. It is a 10" front firing 120watt amp. I haven't seen this model anywhere but Costco. It doesn't give you the gut wrenching bass that my PB12 does, but it isn't bad. Two of them would probably be pretty nice.

Michael

uBid doesn't have the great deals it used to, but I notice that they still offer the Dahlquist 15" PDQ 15 for a bit over $100 plus shipping. I have one of these in my office HT system and am very happy with it.

If you do look at audioreview, you'll see the Sony WA-M40, which I think has a reputation as the king of the cheap subs. The lowest price I have seen for it is from Etronics, 139 + 30 shipping. Many people add some damping material inside the box to improve its performance.

Ohhh tay, here's my two cents (subs?) worth
I have admitted this before, and as a recovering subaholic, must confess owning not one, but TWO of those KLH subs !? It was sorta like, "Hey, 99 bucks? !? What the heck..
If nothing else, they have taught me what a good quaility sub should not sound like.. In a smallish room, turned down, they work.. Turn them up too much, they fall apart..
I do believe they are far and above the non-powered (non)subs offered with so many of the little sat/sub combos.. If you have a small listening area, and want to add bottom to your bookshelf system, for under a hundred they are hard to beat.. (Now,with $20 rebate = $80 !)
I pulled mine out of my theater room.. Put one in the garage (come on, I spend half my time out there) and one in the wifes office/workroom..
My money is going for two EP175's.. SVS will not blend with my rooms look, and two EP350's will be too tight a fit size wise.. I'm not going to sweat the little loss of low end between 350/175.. I will be gaining a more balanced sound throughout the room with two.. I'm going for seat of the pants thrills here, not a rocket science sound lab :->
I'm sure they will be perfect for any and all my music tastes as well..
Believe me, I do play hard when I comes to sound.. My amps are quite accustomed to thermal overload shut-down.. Those crazy Canadians at Axiom have provided me with speakers that can take it, and sound great doing so.. I don't expect their subs will be anything less..
One last thought, (rare for me, to be sure), is there really such a thing as too much speaker for a given room ? It's all a matter of sound pressure.. We jam our cars with more speakers than most people used to have in their homes, with amps big enough to be heard on Mars, and think nothing about it.. So why the concern for home use ? That car, with the windows rolled up is one major compact listening environment.. Your house has open doors, windows, hallways, etc.. It takes a huge amount of home equipment to come close to what's going on inside that car.. I'm not saying we need to all go deaf to appreciate good sound, but I am saying buy the best and biggest you can afford.. You can 'always' turn it down, but you can't get big sound from little boxes.. Bose proves that every day.. LOL !!

One cheaper sub you should NOT avoid is the Sony SWM40. I have one and it is a phenomenal value. I read rave reviews about on the net and purchased one from Sears for 200. I would put it up against any other sub out there!

I was in Future Shop yesterday and i overhead a salesman try to push a Polk setup to an obviously uninformed family. He started with the Polk RT50 and then went on.
He let them hear the 'power' of the Polk subwoofer. It sounded like someone pounding two heavy couch pillows together. Then he turned it up, and the thing started to rattle and distort. And that's when he used his sales line,
"Hear that? That's distortion. If you spend even $200 more you will get a better system and if you have the system for 13 years or more...."

Ugggh, make me barf.
The nausea was overwhelming, so much so, i ran out of the room laughing. I wonder if that guy lost his sale...

Here are some stories about subs and systems. My first sub was a Kenwood SW300 10" unit which matched up beautifully with the various systems that have passed through my office. I swapped out a pair of Polk RT25s up front and Mission 77ds in the back for 4 Michaura M55s (beautiful rosewood M22 type speakers). I was watching one of my favorite DVD movies, Dream Work's Time Machine, spectacular music and effects tracks, and blew up the Kenwood sub. I mean, it blew little pieces of rubber a surprising distance from the sub. I replaced the Kenwood with a Dahlquist PDQ 15" sub and am very, very pleased with this unit. BTW, they are just about the last good buy to be found on uBid.com. Got mine for just under $100 plus shipping. For music I use a Philips SACD 1000 source. It's pretty darn dramatic.

I called Kenwood about a replacement woofer, and was told that I had to buy the amp and speaker because they are a "unit." I finally took the thing apart and found a conventional speaker hooked up to a separate amp. (not all customer service is like Axiom!). Just ordered a 10" woofer from partsexpress.com - those folks were very helpful.

The Kenwood will go with my garage system. I just picked up an incredible vintage Pioneer SX1010 receiver - a thing of true beauty, perfect condition. I'll hook up a pair of M3Tis or Michaura M55s and drive it with a discman until I sort it out.

I have a pure stereo system in my living room, a modest Antique Sound Labs MG S1 15DT 5 watt per channel SET tube integrated, a modified Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CDP, a pair of M50 like Michaura M66s and a little Velodyne 8" sub (CHT80). This system is the sweetest one I have and since I don't get out that much, the sweetest I've heard. But, the Velodyne only goes down to 35 Hz and although that helps the very bottom of the M66s, I could use another octave. So, I just ordered the Vance Dickason Titanic 10" subwoofer kit from partsexpress.com, supposed to be very sweet and musical and good for 24Hz. I'll report back on both the partsexpress modified Kenwood and the Titanic 10" as soon as I get them fired up.

My main system enjoys two subs, arranged in stereo - a 1640 watt Klipsch LF10 and a 10" Velodyne CHT100, out of an Outlaw ICBM bass manager, driven by an Onkyo TXDS797 THX, and helping a pair of Michaura M665 (M60 like speakers) up front, a pair of M22 like M55s on the sides and a pair of Mission 77ds back surrounds. The twin sub arrangement is very smooth and produces wonderful bass which integrates nicely with the speakers.

This sytem is sourced by the Toshiba SD9200 DVD Audio/DTS Progressive scan unit. It is really impressive.

Anyone considering a HT system with M60s up front should not hesitate.

One last system - I'm putting together an office system for my secretary. She'll get the Velodyne 8" when the Titanic comes. I picked up another vintage Pioneer, an SX727, and am ordering a pair of Axiom M2Tis.

She'll need a nice CD changer with a remote. I'm open to all suggestions.

Anyway, subs which are musical, which make tight, accurate bass are terrific. Subs which chuff and rattle are not hifi.

So, for all the subs and speakers and watts, I have to tell you which system is the most pleasant for listening to music. It is the 5 watt per channel tube system with a pair of M50 type speakers helped by a little 8" sub (really a mid) woofer. The sound stage is enormous, imaging is precise and it is sweet, sweet.

Happy new year, fellow Axiom fans!!

Technics SL MC-4. Lucky secretary, but now how will those pleadings ever get done?