It has taken a while, but I finally had time to listen to more speakers, this time Paradigms. I listened to Monitor 7s, studio 20s, 40s, and 60s.

I can hear definate differences across all speakers.

The monitor 7 just dosn't sound as clear as anything in the studio line. It was the most obvious in the percussion: it was muffled.

The studio 20s had a nice clear sound, very detailed. I was quite impressed with the midrange on a blues piece with male vocals. Aside from the missing base, what I noticed when comparing these to the 40s is that they sounded small/focused. I presume this is what people refer to as the soundstage??

The 40s were very nice. I don't know quite how to describe it, but they sounded very very good to me. No part of the music jumped out or faded away. Compared to the monitor 7, the percussion was more detailed. It also seemed like there was more sterio separation on the 40s than the 20s and the overall sound was more full.

Having listened to the monitor 7 and studio 40 next to each other, I know I want something with the sound of the studio 40.

Next I listened to the studio 60. Unfortunately it was in another room, so it was hard to compare to the 40s, but I did notice a difference in the base. Its not that there was more base, it is that it was more... textured. Its almost like I could feel the basist plucking the strings (transparent?).

All this was with music I was not familiar with, so to me, the differences moving up are clear and distinct.

My experience with the studio line is similar to what I felt with the totems I lisened to. The smallest were too small, and I could hear improvements in sound as I moved up the line.

Now, what does this mean in terms of Axiom's offerings? I spend several hours going through all the threads I could find comparing axiom and paradigm speakers. The recurring theme is that the Axiom line is more comparable to the Paradigm studio line, with the exception that the Monitor 11 being similar to the M80. Thats good news for me since I seem to like the clarity of the studios.

The question is, how do the M60s or M22/sub combo compare to the studios I lisened to? These are the two options I was looking at in the Axiom line for my space and budget, but I couldn't find any direct comparison.

Fred

Fred, unfortunately I have little useful info to offer you, but I did want to give you kudos for doing all the leg work. Half the battle of finding good speakers is narrowing down what type of sound you're looking for. The only way to do that is go out and listen! Good job.

I'll let the others who've done direct comparisons between Axiom and Paradigm offer advice.

Thanks. I'm actually having a lot of fun with this. Having been stuck in the boombox world of music for a long time, I am looking forward to listening to music in my home the way it was meant to be heard.

Auditioning good speakers is like treating yourself to really really good chocolate every once in a while. Its a real treat!!

There should always be as much pleasure in the journey as in arriving at the destination.

Fred

Exactly! That way you'll know you've ended up with the right speaker.

The 60's are similar to 80's in many respects. To me the 60s' are also comparible if not better than the Studio lineup from Paradigm. jmo from my auditions.

I think you will find the Axiom line up to be clear across the board. It is all a matter of the presentation of the vocals and bass. The M22's are extremely accurate little speakers and will reveal all that is in the midrange and up. The bass is not accentuated at all leaving them sounding thin.

The M60/M80 line up has the detail the M22s have with the extra bass that is missing from them. The M60's are not as forward sounding as the M80's. The vocals/upper mid etc, sound as if they are sitting a little behind the lower mid/bass lines. The M80 have a more forward presentation like the M22's just with the better base from the larger cabinet and drivers.

The M22/M60 combo known as the M82 around here, seemed to blend the revealing nature of the M22's very well with the more laid back sound of the M60's, but placement could be an issue and some others that have tried this combo didn't like the sound at all.

All of the above is just according to my ears, in my room, your mileage maybe different.

Indeed, but which studios? I found quite a bit of difference between the studio 20 and 40.

I understand that the M60 and 80 are similar but that the 80 gives a little more midrange/upper detail and more base. Of the two, which would you say is closer to the studio 60?



And thats the impression I got from reading the paradigm vs axiom threads here. Good news for me.



Thinking on it, I wouldn't want the vocals any more up front than delivered by the studio 40/60. From what I have heard in the way of base, I do not think I would be satisfied with the M22 by itself, or from any other smaller bookshelf. I suspect that the only way to tell if I would be happy with the m22 + base is to audition that combo (in the plan, but will have to wait for spring).

I want to go back to the dealer with some material I am familiar with and listen again to the studio 40 and 60 to get a better sense of the differences.


Fred

I have never heard M60 or Studio 60, but I have heard quite a bit of M80 and Studio 100 and they are pretty close to each other. My friend who has the 100 thinks they are better. I am far from convinced. Another friend, who has the Signature S8 (quite a nice beast), felt that the M80 sounded better... Those two friends are no longer on speaking terms!

All those hearings were done in isolated environments so it is never trivial to be certain of the differences.

Excellent news indeed! The thought that I can get a similar sound to the Studio 60 at half the price makes me happy.



Indeed. It seems that what sounds good/better is a very personal thing. I just finished reading a thread over on audioholics where the poster found both the M80 and the Paradigm Studio line to be harsh and not very detailed.

That friends would part company over a difference of opinion on something as trivial as the sound or speakers is a sad thing.

I need to start saving those pennies...

Fred

Sorry, I should have made it clearer that it is not that bad (the parting). But it is true that the Studio 100 owner feels that the Signature S8 owner is a bit of a "Paradigm traitor" to have dared prefered the M80!

I think the M60 might sound closer to the Studio 60s and the M80s closer to the 100s but it is really getting into the finer points to make the differences between Paradigms and Axioms, never A/B'd any except the Monitor 11s to the 80s and the 80s won out, just my impressions while out and about.

Paradigm and Axiom sounding harsh is a quite common complaint for those not accustomed to the extra detail they provide.

It's been a while since I listened to Paradigms but I do agree with some of your assessments. I also preferred the Studios to the Monitors. I also found the Monitors somewhat "muffled".

At the time, I A/B'ed them with Whafedale EVO 20's (I think) and actually preferred the Wharfedale. I think they felt a bit more forward. That being said, I took a gamble on the M22's with an Hsu VTF2 and haven't looked back. VERY happy with the result.

Thanks Jason. I read the monitor 11 a/b thread. Sounds like they were really close.

I think I will go back and compare the studio 60, 100 and monitor 11 to see what works best for me. The M80s are in reach if I decide thats the sound I want. No WAF to worry about so I can put huge honkin speakers in my apartment if I want to.

I'm glad you chimed in oldskool. There seem to be a few here on the board that are very happy with the M22 and sub. I also need to listen to some music with Neo6 or the Dolby equivelant to see how I like my music in 5.1 Allen Loft seems to quite like his music this way so it seems worth a listen.

If I really like what I hear in 5.1, the M22 and sub would be the way to go as it would get me to 5.1 the fastest.

Hmm... May not last until spring... may have to visit Axiom sooner to listen to all these options.

I wish there were someone closer than 3 hours away with M22s I could listen to. I would really like to know how they sound. I know some feel they are a little too 'honest' in their presentation.

By the way oldskool. Why did you go with an Hsu sub instead of one from axiom?

Thanks again for all your help everyone!

Fred

Or go listen to some B&W 703's or higher as they are similar to the 80's as well.

I could do that too. It would be interesting to listen to a few speakers that are similar to the Axioms in one session. Unfortunately this particular store only carries Paradigm and Bose.

Fred

I went with the Hsu on some recommendations from some old posters. Anyone remember Sushi?

I found a B stock for $350 shipped. It had a smudge on top that came off with Simple Green. Still have it, though it's been stuffed many times w/ toys from my son...

Remember sushi??? On this forum there are three eras: Before sushi, during sushi, and after sushi.

I fall into the during Sushi era, but just barely.

Fred, I also have the M22s and even with a sub they are not as good as the M80s. If I had never heard them side by side I wouldn't know I was missing out, unfortunately for my wallet, I did hear them A/B'd and there is a difference. I felt that the M22s were always on top of the bass from the sub, while the M80s alone or with a sub just blended everything very well.

Now it may have been we didn't have the sub set up quite right for the M22's, or maybe Axioms brick wall 100hz max for their subs prevented a good blend, but the M80s being able to play down to 40hz evenly makes a huge difference in the feel of the music, IMO.

{{SING}} If you knew Sushi, like I knew Sushi........

Actually, I was post-Sushi.....

Save the Tuna !!

One thing is becoming very clear here. Given that I am reasonably close to Axiom, I really do need to go and audition the various options to see what appeals to me.

Either I will hear a big difference between the M60 and M80 or I won't etc. etc...

In the mean time, I can amuse myself by checking out the different Paradigms again.

I will let you all know how things turn out. Thanks again for all your help.

Fred

See if you can take out the Paradigms for a test run and take them with you to Axiom when you visit. I certainly can't speak for thier policy but I wouldn't be surprised if they would let you A/B both in their site as they are big promoters of the 'must compare in the exact same environment' rule. Ask first of course to be polite otherwise we will both get in trouble. heh heh.

They might be more eager to do this than the local Paradigm retailer allowing you to bring strange speakers there when other customers could hear.

My bet is that you will love both but Axiom's price can't be beat for something that is the same quality.

If I suddenly get banned from the board, I will know that that was a bad idea.

In thinking further, they may have a policy against this so as to never be accused of fudging a demo in their favor. I could understand that as well.

Either way, Axiom has that 30 return policy that allows you to take them home and demo them against as many speakers as you want. Like them, I'm confident you will keep them against anything you will find local in the same price range.

I think someone took there m80's to a local dealer and a/b'ed them with some paradigms. I remember reading something on the forums about it

That would have been Mojo and I. The dealer was very nice about it. I think he thought we would find the Paradigms to be sooo much better, when in fact we did not.

Actually, no banning required! We had a test done exactly like this two years ago where two friends brought in Paradigm speakers they had on loan. Debbie set up a proper blind listening test and not only did the two men go through it, so did lots of Axiom staff! We're always interested in things like that.

The factory is under a bit of renovation right now though so it's good to call first to book an appointment. That way we can at least dust the listening room for you!

Post deleted because, after consideration, it wasn't funny.

Ha ha, that made me laugh.

Oh my, dropped in here twice yesterday and I didn't even check my own post

Murph. I don't know that I will ever need to a/b Aioms to Paradigms. Reviews are universal in their agreement that Axioms (all of them) play well above their class. From what I heard when I auditioned the Paradigms, the Axiom 'sound' is right for me. For now I am trying to find speakers locally that will sound similar to various axioms so that I can get some idea of what level of speaker is best for me.

I am also 'killing time' as I don't have the $$ for speakers just yet. I picked up a new TV and computer just before Christmas (visa bill arrived yesterday) so I need to take some time to save more pennies.

No need to dust Amy, I'll feel right at home without it. I will definately call ahead to book.

Fred

Amazing what the lack of a comma can do for a sentence. It actually sounds like he's calling off a hit on Amie!
Or perhaps she's one of the good vampires.

I had a joke about a feather duster but I deleted it.

Sometimes I have to remind myself I actually don't know the people on the other end of this newsgroup.

And we'll never know you unless you share your feather duster jokes.