Hi guys,

I am setting up a stereo system in our 15x22' room with speakers shooting down the 22' length. Room has hard wood floors. Electronics will be Nakamichi 7 series (Nak PA-7 amp - 200w/channel-, OMS-7AII CD player, ST-7 tuner, and CR-7A tape deck) for nostalgia. I already have the M80s in our HT room so I am looking to get something else. I started to get interested in the Mcintosh LS360 and, more recently, in Krell Resolution 1 based on reviews and recent listings on Audiogon. Has anyone heard these and what were your impressions. Do you have any recommendations (such as B&W 803D or others). I will need to pick these up from the used market such as in Audiogon. Basically, I am neck deep in work during the week and also work some weekends. When I am off on the weekends, I sometimes listen to pop music, acoustical guitar, occassional classical music, some '80s new wave music, some rock, and a hodge podge of other stuff. Thanks in advance.

I have a "stereo" room equipped with M22s and I love it. M22s have some of the low-power qualities of the M80s and can also perform quite well at higher volume. I have bought the M3s for my brother, and since I have tried the M22, I have to admit I regret not having spent the difference for him.
Of course, I still prefer my M80s...

I have a pair of Michaura M55s in the bedroom that were made by Axiom and are similar to the M22s. They do not extend as low as I would like. I suppose getting a sub is an option.

Are you looking more specifically for floorstanders or will bookshelf speakers work too? Are you looking for something similar in sound to the Axioms or something different?

Looking for floorstanders. I am looking for linear speakers similar to Axiom's. Before I put the M80s into the HT room, which has carpeting, I tried them in the living room where we have hard wood floors. Their revealing quality at times made listening to some CDs intolerable due to accentuated high frequencies in the original recordings. Putting down treble just did not balance things out. In the HT room, they work much better. They have good bass extension, I believe to into 30sHz but I think I would prefer a floorstander that will extend down to the 20sHz region.

I'm skeptical that you can get <30Hz extension without a dedicated, powered subwoofer.

As to full-range floorstanders, in my limited experience I was very impressed with st_patguy's Odyssey Loreleis and with the Salk Songtowers.

I've not heard Mirage's OMD-28's before, but wanted to hear them as they are a very different approach in their design(omnipolar) than traditional speakers. They were supposedly able to hit 18hz(-10db) on the bottom end. Alas, they are only available on the used market as they stopped production(thanks Klipsch) about a year ago and sold off their remaining stock through Vanns for a seeming bargain around $1200-1300 USD pr, considering they originally listed at $7500pr. Set-up of these speakers would have been interesting, but would have provided a very different soundfield and listening experience.

Full range for floorstanders, unless powered subs are used in them (even then some don't go below 30hz), is around the mid 30s and up from my experiences.

A wonderfull little system could be had with M22s and the EP400 sub. The M22s are a little less forward than the M80s and the EP400 is a great music sub that reaches below 30hz.

You could also look at M80s but install the resistors(available from Axiom) for the tweeters to cut down the treble.

Hello ihifi,

I've not heard the Salk Songtowers so I can't comment on those. However, if you are looking for linear, uncolored speakers other than Axioms, floorstanders from Revel and Snell have always been very neutral. Likewise, the Energy Veritas 2.4 and 2.3, although since Klipsch acquired Energy, I don't know the availability of those or if Klipsch has introduced design changes (I hope not!).

Regards,

Alan

You could also check out offerings from PSB, Paradigm, and Monitor Audio although I would suggest to you that any of these speakers may sound somewhat harsh unless you address the hardwood floor situation. I also have 3/4 hardwood in my non-dedicated HT room, but aside from the furnishings, I'm using a 9' x 11' by 1" thick woolen rug in the middle of the room(I also reigned in the high freq's a little on the Denon's eqzer), which seem to work very well.

Unfortunately Alan, when you look at what Klipsch has done to the Mirage line, they have pretty well stripped it to the bone and gone quite a bit down market in its offerings. The history of Mirage and their previous design ingenuity has sadly gone the way of the dodo bird.

Jay, thank you very much for your suggestion. The frequency response of the two speakers I mentioned in my first post dip below 30Hz. Krell Resolution 1: 25Hz–22kHz, +/- 3dB and Mcintosh LS360: 29Hz-20kHz +/- 2dB. I prefer not to use a sub to achieve the bass.

Alan, thank you very much for your suggestions. Revel's Ultima line (both Salon and Studio lines within the Ultima category)has received very good reviews but they are priced above what I'd like to spend even in the used market. I have not heard of the Snells and will take a look.

The Mcintosh are just barely into the 20's with 29hz, not enough to qualify in my books. The Krell's well,...... 2 10" drivers will certainly give you 25hz but you had better be using a really good amp. Those 2 big drivers are going to suck the power out of it, those are some big speakers

Thanks Tom! I'm jealous you were able to hear some Salk speakers. I love the custom finishes available through Salk and really want to hear how they sound too.

John, I can't find my notes right now, but I have measured my Loreleis below 30Hz. For a two-way speaker with a 7 inch driver, they do bass with authority.

That would be in room response, yes? and the M80s and I believe even the M60s, will go below 30hz in room.

You could look into RBH Sound RBH makes some good speakers

Hi ihifi

I had to smile when I saw you have a pair of the beautiful Michaura M55s. I have a houseful, also a pair of M66s and a pair of M665s. Although shipping was expensive, the $19 I paid for each M55s is the greatest audio deal I've ever made. [I think they intended to charge $400 a pair for these beauties]

I swapped out the caps and resistor with some Jensen paper/oils and Caddocks. You are right, the M55s don't go very low. BUT, they pair seemlessly with fast subs. They are also extremely efficient. I drove a pair supported by a Velodyne 10" sub with a 5 wpc SET tube amp and the combo is pretty magical in my opinion.

I am also a fan of the M3s (not so much the M22s though I have a pair for garage service). The M3s are spectacular over achievers. M3s have some bass presence, but they also benefit hugely from a good sub. I went back and forth between M3s and Michaura M55s, and ended up with the M55s - to my ears they had a larger soundstage (huge actually), more open and airy highs, though I liked the mid bass of the M3s better.

The Michaura M55s, Velodyne 10", Ah! Njoe Tjoeb tube output CDP and ASL MG SI 15DT 5 wpc SET amp produces a WALL OF SOUND. The speakers disappear and the sound stage is truly huge.

I prefer the same set up with a pair of M66s but the difference is between the shockingly good and the absolutely sublime.

BTW, although I don't know how much of a contribution they made, I use Mapleshade Clearview Double Golden Helix Plus speaker cable and Maple Audio interconnects.

Let us know how your new set up compares to the M55s. I have heard 2 channel systems which cost $10,000 and which did not sound as good as the M55s and a modest SET tube amp.

Also, I have to agree with Alan. I think Revel floorstanders are wonderful speakers.

a pair of M55s driven by a slightly modded Sonic Impact T-Amp.

A pair of M22s auditioning for a pair of M55s in the garage with some bubble wrapped M2s atop the fridge.


The ASL 5 wpc tube amp is now driving a pair of modded Dahlquist DQM 905s with supertweeters, sub, and a drop dead gorgeous HH Scott tube tuner which sounds as good as it looks.

nice pics!

All depending what your budget is, you might want to check out Totem, Dali and Monitor Audio.

I was auditioning some speakers two weeks back and went through the 3 brands above and they sounded great! I ended up going with Monitor Audio RS Series because of looks and price! I got my front end at approx $800 off regular selling price because the new RX line was coming in. They needed to clear the left over stock.

You have a lovely home, 2x6. I was surprised you didn't mention your Thiels, because I certainly thought of them relative to the OP's question.

Thank you Tom.

I love the Thiels but they are large floor standers and cost a pretty penny. (Though I picked up a mint pair for about the price of a pair of M60s) The beauty of the Michauras and the M3s is how great they are and how reasonably priced.

I don't think my 5 wpc SET amp would not get the thiel drivers moving though I never tried it.

"love the Thiels but they are large floor standers and cost a pretty penny"

Well,...I am looking for floor standers. Just need to find a pretty penny, I guess.

Ola ihifi. I'd consider going used then. I've seen some fantastic deals on Focal floor standers and Revels. Thiels are bit harder to come by, I think.

g'luck.

Further my conversation with myself - here is a picture of the top of the Michaura M665 floorstander with my homemade 5" bronze puck standing atop 3 x 1.5" brass pucks (felt lined). Note the anti standing wave shape of the cabinet - an incredibly rigid hex layout. The imitation wood finish is one of the best I've seen. The sound is excellent. Driver kit consists of 2 x 6" Axiom drivers 1x 5.25 axiom driver and a 3/4" titanium tweeter from the old M1 and I think M2 speakers.

Cool! I didn't realize those were hexagonal. That looks like HG cherry. You really have a hard time telling it apart from the real thing.

I have 3 pairs of Michaura M55s, 2 pairs in the HT room (check the link under my name) and 1 pair in our bedroom. I did not buy them from ubid but wished I did . I share your enthusiasm. The pairs in the HT room are sitting atop Bose speaker stands. They work well as surrounds, where low frequency performance is not important. The pair in our bedroom sit atop these Sonus Faber knock offs, and low frequency extension is noticeably better with these stands. With an EP400, the bedroom system would be hard to beat. I just don't want to use subs in the living room.

Regarding my original inquiry, has anyone had a chance to audition the B&W 803Ds. I had heard the 802Ds and was very impressed.803Ds have the same tweeter and apparently extend as low as the 802Ds; they are also cheaper but still around $6k for a used pair.

PS. Michaura M55 is very similar to the Axiom M22, the only difference in drivers being the tweeter size, which is 1" in M22 and 3/4" in M55. I remember reading Ian mentioning that despite their similarities, these were quite different speakers. The finish on the M55 is simply superb (and yes, they are HG cherry). They are also quite heavy for their size.

I'm really afraid to audition anything in the 800 line. My wallet is not quite hefty enough, but I'm a 'die trying' kinda guy...

I listened to a pair some time ago and they were fantastic as far as I can recall. If, and that's a huge if, I could some how afford some I would.

You must break a lot of hockey sticks on those pucks.

I would try to find someone with Legacy Classics or Von Schweikert VR-2s that you can audition. My brother-in-law has the Legacy Classics and he runs them without a subwoofer. They have very nice tight bass and beautiful sounding ribbon tweeters. I believe that he paid around $1,500 on the used market a few years back, but I think that in the current economic situation that you could find them for less.