Since I'm expecting a large tax refund from Uncle Sam,I've been hit by a high dose of upgradeitis.I am now the owner of the previous version of the M80 speakers and am thinking of trading them in for the V2'S.Is there enough of a difference between the two versions for me to do so?I do want to stick with Axiom rather then going for some other comparatively priced speakers.
Hi ahser770,
There has been a crossover change from the V1 to V2 on the M80's years ago. I am sure there is a difference between the two but IMO it would not be worth the price after trade in to upgrade.
IMO you should spend that money on another subwoofer. For a grand you can do quite well and I think it will make a bigger difference than upgrading the M80's from v1 to v2.
I agree that you likely won't find enough of a difference to make the expenditure worthwhile.
I haven't heard either, but the anecdotal evidence seems pretty clear!
I haven't heard either, but the anecdotal evidence seems pretty clear!
Never?!
asher, I would recommend that you get a good amp, if you are currently using a receiver. I think you would notice a larger improvement from better amplification than a slightly newer design, with the exact same drivers and cabinet. I noticed a HUGE difference when I went from a receiver to pre-pro set up.
Hope this helps.
Arthur, the first suggestion relating to that tax "refund" would be to take steps to assure that this year you won't be giving the Federal government an interest-free loan and won't be getting a refund next year.
As to how to use your overpayment, since you have over a thousand classical CDs, it seems unlikely that going into an obsolescent audio format would be a sensible move. Also, since your 3480 has plenty of power, buying even more wouldn't appear to be cost-effective.
What would make a real improvement in your enjoyment of those classical CDs would be to listen to the surround ambience mixed into the front channels in surround speakers. One of the fine HT receivers, such as those from Denon or Onkyo, can apply DPLII to extract the ambience and send it to surrounds, such as QS8s, where it belongs. This is how I listen to the thousand or so classical CDs that I have and I'd never voluntarily limit myself again to listening on only front speakers.
How old are your M80s? If they're before 2003 or so, it might be worth it.
Never?!
Oh, geeez, you're right! I
have heard M80s, but it didn't count because the ceiling in the listening room wasn't tongue and groove....
What would make a real improvement in your enjoyment of those classical CDs would be to listen to the surround ambience mixed into the front channels in surround speakers. One of the fine HT receivers, such as those from Denon or Onkyo, can apply DPLII to extract the ambience and send it to surrounds, such as QS8s, where it belongs. This is how I listen to the thousand or so classical CDs that I have and I'd never voluntarily limit myself again to listening on only front speakers.
John's hit the nail on the head here. This would be the best upgrade/addition.
Asher, I agree with Ken. Depending on version, the differences between what you have now and the current model could sound significantly different. My Ti’s are all 2004 or older and I plan to swap them all out.
I have been listening to a set of Axioms with the latest version upper end and there really is no comparison between them and my Ti models. It is much smoother.
Seems to me that if there were significant sonic differences (which apparently there are) between speakers in a same model line with different versions Axiom should at least release some sort of a published timeline list of the different versions and the benefits. The only information I can ever recall hearing about regarding the different versions (or year models) and their differences always comes from here on the message board, I'd like to hear it straight from the manufacturer.
I agree with ya on that one Rick.
You'll probably be hearing something before much longer. Until then, you can always send Allan a PM.
I know that there have been enough changes since I bought my m80s in nov 2007 that when I thought I had a problem they did not want to send a new speaker but wanted me to send it back for repair.
Thanks gang for your input.
You've got a phenomenal memory John remembering all the details about me.I think that your advice seems to be right on.Thanks.
Well, in lieu of donating to a worthy charity (that would be FTSTHL, the Foundation To Support Terry's Hedonistic Lifestyle, pm me for more info
), you have another vote for a vinyl rig.
Although, the rational me says to invest the money.
Or take your significant other on a vacation, see some symphonies in person.
Nah, now that I've really thought about it, you really should donate that filthy lucre to the FTSTHL. Seriously, they do wonderful work on behalf of the children.
Who are, I might mention, the motherfruggin' future.
Seems to me that if there were significant sonic differences (which apparently there are) between speakers in a same model line with different versions Axiom should at least release some sort of a published timeline list of the different versions and the benefits. The only information I can ever recall hearing about regarding the different versions (or year models) and their differences always comes from here on the message board, I'd like to hear it straight from the manufacturer.
FWIW, I thought differences in their repsective frequency graphs for the Ti and V2 models were significant enough...
You'll probably be hearing something before much longer. Until then, you can always send Allan a PM.
Meaning they do plan on publishing a list/history of changes?
FWIW, I thought differences in their repsective frequency graphs for the Ti and V2 models were significant enough...
Is this considered a significant difference?
From a 2002 review of the M80T1 ... (
Almost Excellent!)
And from Axiom's current page on the M80v2 ...
FWIW, I thought differences in their repsective frequency graphs for the Ti and V2 models were significant enough...
Is this considered a significant difference?
From a 2002 review of the M80T1 ... (
Almost Excellent!)
And from Axiom's current page on the M80v2 ...
No, those two are almost identical, but they are different from the original one from SoundStage found in the first post of this thread:
http://axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads....true#Post289453Sorry, haven't figured out how to attach an image yet...
Aren't those graphs 2x6 posted for the M3Ti's and not the M80Ti's?
All I did was google Axiom M80Ti frequency graphs and the above article with the pictured graph came up ... I am merely the messenger.
I am merely the messenger.
Kill him! KILL HIM!
Aren't those graphs 2x6 posted for the M3Ti's and not the M80Ti's?
All I did was google Axiom M80Ti frequency graphs and the above article with the pictured graph came up ... I am merely the messenger.
Scroll further down and you will see that 2x6 posted the M80Ti graph as well...unless I'm mistaken...OK, now I gotta go back and check myself...
OK, just checked and the M80Ti graph is still there, whew
Oh OK I see now, that's strange ... it's certainly different than those that were posted in the article from '02. Maybe that's why a published timeline of the different versions and upgrades would be a good idea?
Hi all,
I sent Asher a PM asking for the serial numbers of his "ti" M80s but no response so far, so I'm posting here.
With the serial numbers, we can check at the plant to see if his "ti" M80 already has the changed crossover.
Believe me, if you are a critical listener, there IS a difference between the original M80ti and the later version (Summer/Fall 2003); large enough that when we did double-blind listening tests between the old "ti" M80 and the new "ti"--almost everyone at Axiom participated in the tests--the new "ti" crossover won, and it became a much smoother and more linear speaker, especially in the midrange, which I was very critical of when I joined Axiom. So the new crossover was introduced Summer 2003 and along with other mechanical changes, the new M80s were renamed the v2 in 2005.
You can't just judge the sound quality of a speaker on one on-axis anechoic frequency response curve; it's really a matter of looking at the overall family of curves and making a judgment call. Sometimes just 1 dB of difference in the midrange, where our hearing is most sensitive, in the on-axis and off-axis curves, will make a surprisingly large change in the sound of the speaker in the listening tests.
Regards,
Alan
Thanks Alan, so any M80Ti/v2 manufactured after the summer/fall of 2003 should be darn near identical sonically to the M80v2's manufactured today I presume.
Good news!
Hi all,
I sent Asher a PM asking for the serial numbers of his "ti" M80s but no response so far, so I'm posting here.
With the serial numbers, we can check at the plant to see if his "ti" M80 already has the changed crossover.
Believe me, if you are a critical listener, there IS a difference between the original M80ti and the later version (Summer/Fall 2003); large enough that when we did double-blind listening tests between the old "ti" M80 and the new "ti"--almost everyone at Axiom participated in the tests--the new "ti" crossover won, and it became a much smoother and more linear speaker, especially in the midrange, which I was very critical of when I joined Axiom. So the new crossover was introduced Summer 2003 and along with other mechanical changes, the new M80s were renamed the v2 in 2005.
You can't just judge the sound quality of a speaker on one on-axis anechoic frequency response curve; it's really a matter of looking at the overall family of curves and making a judgment call. Sometimes just 1 dB of difference in the midrange, where our hearing is most sensitive, in the on-axis and off-axis curves, will make a surprisingly large change in the sound of the speaker in the listening tests.
Regards,
Alan
Good to know, thanks for the info!
I wonder if Axiom would sell the V2 crossover to owners of pre-2003 M80s for owners who might want to change, as an option to selling then buying the latest version(I'm assuming the drivers haven't changed too much, if any...tweeters?).
Hi Rick,
Yes, I expect so. Short of shipping my Summer 2003 M80s back to Axiom--and I'm tempted to do so-- and doing a round of listening tests, I expect them to be virtually the same.
The thing is, Ian has a habit of slipping in some design change during production and then telling me later on my next visit to the plant for listening tests. I asked him a year or two ago if there had been any upgrades in the M60 and he said, "Oh, yeah, it's entirely different," and laughed uproariously, knowing I'd be annoyed! And I had to admit that after doing a bunch of tests, the M60 v2 sounded a lot better than I'd remembered it.
Regards,
Alan
Alan, do you care to comment on any changes from the v2 m80 sold around late 2007 compared to the one shipping today? I assumed the reason I was asked to send back my speaker for repair when I thought I was having problems a couple of months ago was that the current design sounds a little different and having two slightly different speakers would sound odd?
I wonder if Axiom would sell the V2 crossover to owners of pre-2003 M80s for owners who might want to change, as an option to selling then buying the latest version(I'm assuming the drivers haven't changed too much, if any...tweeters?).
I asked Ian that very question as I wanted to do the same thing. It’s a fairly involved upgrade. You have to change the crossover, make some wiring changes and you also have to buy new tweeters. In effect, I’d be money ahead just selling mine and buying new ones. The fact that they did not have wood veneer when I bought mine and now they do is the prevailing reason for me to want to move to the new line. The improved sound is just a bonus to me.
Makes sense, thank's for clarifying Michael.
Hi terzaghi,
It could be, but I don't have access to the records on your speaker or, for that matter, what differences, if any, exist between current M80 production and models from 2007.
We do keep current reference models of each speaker in the listening room, against which random production samples are compared periodically, but I suspect the answer to your question likely resides in the curves and measurements stored in the anechoic chamber computers. Apart from the change and improvement in midrange sound quality in 2003 that I described in my earlier post, there have not been significant audible upgrades in the M80 v2 that I'm aware of.
Regards,
Alan
Sorry Alan.I didn't get your PM.The serial #'s are 4020004 and 4040001.Where do I stand?
Thanks, Asher. I'll send them to the plant and post here when I have the answer.
Alan
Hi asher770,
I had your serial numbers checked at the factory and your M80ti's do not have the upgraded crossover.
I also forgot to mention that during that period of upgrades to the M80ti, over the summer/fall of 2003, there was a change to the tweeter design of the M80s. The combination of the upgraded crossover and improved tweeter produced the smoother and more linear midrange performance that become part of the M80 v2.
Regards,
Alan
....produced the smoother and more linear midrange performance that become part of the M80 v2.
The best part of the M80
I just called Axiom to check to see if the M80s I have was the older crossover or not. JC answered and once he heard they were an 03 model he right away told me it was the older crossover without checking the serial #. No sooner than that he pretty much said "OK and hung up on me.
Not a very talkative fellow.
He's probably not paid by the word.
JC is the fellow that emailed me back the following information after I inquired about a damaged tweeter on one of my four year old 80s...
"Your tweeter has suffered physical abuse. Axiom would never ship a speaker with a tweeter having physical damage. The ones with cosmetic flaws which are still physically perfect are sent to the Factory Outlet."
