I was at a local audio shop (The Audio Shop in Ottawa) today, I purchased most of my current gear there many years ago so I decided to drop in and see what was going on. The sales guy was still there.. and still just as much the salesman.. funny, I did not really like him 10 years ago, and I still don't.. anyways, I was chating and I remember seeing some Axiom speakers (M22 I think ) in his shop, and he said that yes they use to carry Axiom before they went Internet only.. then he says, when the first M3 Ti speaker series was in his shop, they weighted 46 pounds, then as time progressed, the weighed less and less, the last version before they went Internet only was only 21 pounds. So, he says, Axiom made their name selling the good stuff in stores, then started to cut corners and "cheapen" the product to make more money once their name was made and eventually went Internet only to make more money.. but still make the "cheaper" version of the product.. basically, come out with a killer product, well made with top parts.. get all the reviews and accolades and sell it well in local shops, then continue making the same products by using cheaper parts..

Now.. I take what this guys says with a HUGE grain of Rock salt.. just wondering if you guys ever heard of this before..


I'm SUPER happy with my QS8s and satisfied with my EP-500. I just thought that was interesting..

Also, he tried to sell me a pair of B&W 804s speakers..they were on " sale " ($4K vs the usual price of $5K ) because there is a new model replacing it coming out.. I listenned, I was not impressed. The mids were strained and vocals seemed to be very narrow / stuffed ? the opposite of open and airy..Did not like them one bit.. My cousin's M80s sound better by a long shot over those 804s. Now, I also listened to the bigger 803D and they sounded pretty darn good..MUCH better than the 804s..but the 803D list for $10K !! completely out of my budget

Its always amusing to hear a salesman slam what they used to carry so that they can sell you what they now carry.

I try to stay away from $10,000 speakers. I already have enough things to spend my $ on.

I may be wrong, but I can't see an M3 weighing as much as an M60 tower, according to the salesman's statement. Anyhow, I recall Tabangi Electronics telling me they once sold Axiom speakers years ago...I think you'll find a number of former retailers of Axiom speakers from several years ago, before they went internet. Afaik, Axiom used to make speakers for Radio Shack in Canada(Merak?) as well as Michaura speakers.

I was at a shop a few years ago chatting with the sales person. I mentioned I had Rotel equipment, he went on telling me how bad it was and how Adcom was so much better.

Last year I went back to the same shop with the same sales person. Now that they carry Rotel stuff it's the best thing since sliced bread.

They're all full of shit.

I could not have said anything better myself Rick, you hit the nail on the head as usual.

Like I said, I never liked the guy.. I liked the gear he was selling, but he pressured me in buying the Veritas 2.3s using the old " it's my last pair and there is someone waiting at the door to buy them so you have to tell me right now" thing.. ya I know, everyone of you here would have walked away..but this was first time I was in a position to purchase speakers above a few hundred dollars and this was a pair of $2800 speakers for $2000.. so I bit down on his hook and that was the end of that. I knew from my very first audition that there was a bump in the mids and a lack of bass that I did not really like.. he assured me that they would sound different after a few hundred hours.. not to worry, that would go away after break in.. well let me tell you, he's full of shit.. that exact same bump in the low mids (120hz to be exact) and the lack of bass is still here after close to 10 years of listening..I'm sure I have more than 200 hours by now :-) .. So now I'm looking to sell them and take my sweet time auditionning multiple speakers as a replacement. This time, no one will pressure me in anything, I will make my decision based on what my ears tell me, not the sales pitch. The M80s are on my short list, as you have heard me say before, my cousin has the Epic 80 - 500 system and I set it up for him so I know first hand how they sound, and they sound good.. but first, I need to hear them in MY room . And any other speakers I audition in this town, I'm going to ask that I listen to them in my own basement before I give anyone a dime.

Cheers
Stephane

Stephan. Most of us have probably been sucked in by that same preasure tactic at one time or another.

Auditioning in your room is a good idea.

As someone who has spent time putting together A/V systems in recent years, I have found dealing with many retailers akin to pulling out my fingernails with a pair of pliers!

When it comes to dealing with these people, I have one simple rule that everyone can use. If they start criticizing equipment they don't sell, IMMEDIATELY turn around and walk out the door!
It never occurs to this "pea-brained" salesperson that the customer he is trying to sell may own the equipment he is knocking so in essence, without knowing it, he is calling that customer an idiot for owning it!

This is the LAST type of individual who is going to provide the potential customer with knowledgeable advice.

Years ago before I bought my M80s, I went to a local high end seller to listen to Paradigm Studio 100s (which he did not have, I think I listened to the 60's). I also listened to the Maggie 3.6s there (they were very nice) and I think a pair of Focals (which were okay). I told the salesman that I was considering Axiom. As I remember, he smiled and said they were good speakers but not as good as the what they had in his shop. I expect a salesman to try and push what he sells, and in a way I kind of appreciate that he did not slam the Axioms. I figured all it would cost me to try them out was return shipping (I already had the QS8s at that point, so I was familiar with the sound quality of Axiom).

Long story short, never looked back on my decision, and I've never been back to that shop.

Thanks Fred, that does make me feel a bit better :-)

Just today, yet again, as he was telling me about the B&W 804s on sale , he said " these are absolutely the best speakers under $5000 dollars bar none, and they are my last pair for only $4000, you really can't go wrong" ..Wrong .. I listened to the speakers, I did not like what I heard, therefore, if I was to purchase them, I WOULD go wrong ..again.. but not this time buddy.. I have 10 years of experience and maturity since the last time he pulled this crap..he won't be seeing me in his store anytime soon.. if ever..

My experience with a local Paradigm dealer before I bought my Ax's went something like this. After hearing several speakers from various companies, I had narrowed my choices down to three companies; Paradigm, Monitor Audio and Axiom(which I hadn't heard before). At first the Paradigm dealer was both helpfull and quite friendly but as I got closer to my decision and knew I was leaning towards the Axioms, he started dropping a few innuendos here and there...I guess he figured he had nothing to lose at that point. I did in fact, buy my Denon AVR, BD1800, and Paradigm DSP3400 off him at a very reasonable price, so I can't really complain(nor can he, for that matter).

I found other dealers to operate in somewhat similar fashion, if you mention another brand they'll usually start with "Well, they're ok, BUT..."

Stephane, it's disappointing to hear that Marc Hallam is fabricating nonsense like that about Axiom. Marc was a member here(Marc_in_Ottawa)about 7-8 years ago and did contribute some helpful posts sharing his enthusiasm for Axioms. Of course, that ended when Axiom discontinued their dealer network.

The weight thing is ludicrous, of course. Among other points, my 8 year old M22s aren't heavier than the current model.

The guy who installed our car stereo said he used to sell axioms when they were in stores. He didn't have anything bad to say about them... but of course he doesn't sell home theater stuff anymore- just car audio. I'd be willing to bet if he still sold HT gear he wouldn't have been as fond about axiom

I have no use for sales people, particularly in the home entertainment and automobiles.

I think there might be more than a few former Axiom dealers that are a little miffed that Axiom pulled out of the dealer network and have a bit of a chip on their shoulders when Axiom is mentioned.

Just a little miffed, yeah. From what I've heard from Ian, though, Axiom's pretty happy about not having to deal with dealers.

Dealing with dealers can be a raw deal.

I don't know what the deal is with dealers.

They're just a bunch of audio dealettantes.

Who's deal is it?

John, just to clarify, it is not Mark who made the comments, Mark only works on the Online Store of the Audio Shop, it was long time salesman Garth .. forgot his last name..but not Mark..
Just want to point that out.

Steph

I heard Garth was going back to Country Music.

I heard he was working on another Wayne Stock...

Thanks for clarifying that Steph.

I have been to a lot of shops and not to many salesman have heard of Axiom or will not say anything. I was at RBH factory in Layton, UT. to listen to some RBH signatures speakers I told the guy giving me the demo I had Axiom's in my bedroom set up. He was the first to say he has heard of them and ha said very good thing about Axiom speakers. I do too dislike when I go in to a place and the sales guy bashes other equipment most of them have no idea about their own product. It is sad when you can tell them about their own product line. Oh well Axiom makes a great speaker at a great price.

Bren may know of this, although it no longer exists, really, but we had an audio seller/reseller in town called McCulloch Audio. When first researching speakers he was recommended to me from a long stereophile friend.
Upon entering the store and chatting with the owner Bruce, i gave him a list of the speakers i was researching.
If i recall i had Energy, Axiom, PSB, Paradigm, Monitor Audio, B&W and one or two others (maybe Totem).
Bruce went down the list and said "they make a good speaker, these guys make a great speaker, you might want to look at specific models from this maker, ...".

It was the first and last time i have ever walked into an audio shop and received what i now know was a very honest and realistic opinion.
He also turned me on to Angstrom Audio (another side story). I do own a pair now and they are fantastic sound and for a price better than Axiom (model dependent and applies to their more expensive models if bought used).

Pretty rare for a dealer to say nice things about the competition in any business.

I really like the looks of the Obliggato line with the wood inlay.

my friends...traveling through life we will meet people of different degrees of professionalism. There sure are some great People in great professions and there are also some people that just leave alot to be desired. I bet not one of you will disagree on that comment. I am not suprised to see the same staff at stereo shops, I understand it can be a very rewarding career, there will be good and otherwise.

I love reading about the experineces of people being suckered into buying something they didnt want or didnt like. Shame on you!! Its your money and spend it how you want.

Axiom M80 speakers were a very good deal until I went to my local stereo shop to purchase some rotels amps etc. After listening to my local guy who wanted to sell me Vienna Acoustic speakers for the last two years, he helped me with products to improve the performance of my new speakers. I ended up with a new preamp that instantly made the Axiom M80s hit new levels of performance. I have never owned a better speaker for the price.

I appreciate the advice of professionals and when someone tells me that its the last one, I tend to believe them and make my own decisions. I would rather have a product that I desire; than lose an opportunity not to own something desireable. I sure wish I had purchased the last Rotel amp they had at 1400.00 nope, I was ok with not owning it and now I will pay almost 2000.00 at a different dealer to own the same amp. I suggest finding a great store and get to know someone there, you will be amazed how much a good rep will know and show.