I had a chance to A/B test & compare these two speakers in my own listening room.
Components:
Oknyo M-504 Power Amp
Oknyo P-304 Preamp
NAD S500i
Magnan Interconnects/Speaker Cable
The Polks just totally blew away the Axioms. With everything from Vivaldi's "4 Seasons" to the Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" the Polks just shined like stars. To clear up any questions of fairness, neither pair was defective and I used the same quality hardware up to each set. The Axioms were just outclassed. Sound is subjective, but there comes a point where blatancy outweighs all. The Axioms are nice, but anyone with a trained ear can hear the difference. I will abstain from abusing the cliches often used to describe how a speaker sounds, and no I am not a Polk advocate, and No cigar for Axiom this time.
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For the twice the price, I would hope they would kill the M22's.
When I first got my axiom's, I was impressed, but wasnt blown away. Then I started listening to other speakers in the price range, and realized how great they are.
No, M22's are not going to "beat" most speakers over twice their price, but it is pretty impressive they are being compared to them.
The only speaker in my opinion that is on par (and I personally think better) in the same price range are Magnepan MMG's at $550. If only I had the room, I would have a 5.1 with these instead.
The LSi9's are only $599 pr. And they do kill the Axioms, no question about that. If you hold them next to each other you can see the build quality is of no comparison (the Axioms are somewhat lighter and the cabinet construction seems cheesy in comparison to the real wood finish and heft of the Polk model), and to listen you would hear the sound quality of the LSi9's is far above the Axiom's. I am still curious about the other offerings in the Axiom line up (the larger floor standing models) and may give them a listen. The loyalty to the Axioms is admirable, though I think that most Axioms owners just live with the shortcomings so as not to dwell on the fact that the speakers are just not that good...Remember the "Emporers new clothes"?
Your Onkyo M-504 is one of my favorite amps! Very nice set-up you have there.
I grabbed a pair of Polk Rt-25i speakers to hold me over until my first set of Axiom M3Tis arrived. Circuit City sold the Polks for way under MSRP, and they were very nice little speakers, especially in light of the about $100 they cost for the pair. Polk makes some nice speakers.
I personally prefer the Axiom M3Tis to the pair of M22s I had, maybe it was just a bad luck pair, but they definitely sounded thin. I've since picked up some cousins of the Axioms, Michaura M55s (twin 5.25" drivers and the 0.75" tweeter like the last-gen M2Tis) and they are to my ears awesome speakers.
You may want to try a pair of M3s or if you like floor standers, a pair of M60s.
PS, I've been looking for a nice M-504 for about 2 years. Picked up a Yamaha M-80 brute amp, but am still looking for the twin metered Big Onk.
I saw them listed at Crutchfield ($899), thats what I based my "twice the price" off of.
Like I said, I said I have listened to speakers that sounded better, and would even prefer a set different from the axioms in the same price range. So I am kind of confused as where you get "owners just live with the shortcomings so as not to dwell on the fact that the speakers are just not that good." People enjoy a great deal at $400, but are not fooled that this the end all be all of speakers.
slownlo,
Although I've never listened to the Polk LSi series in my home, I've auditioned them (both floorstanders and bookshelfs) in multiple occasions/locations, including friends' houses and dealer rooms.
To be honest, they've never impressed me: To my ears, the bass is on the boomy side (I can rather say it is blatantly boomy); midrange has a "boxy" coloration; and treble lacks details and airy qualities. Most importantly for me, however, they just fail to disappear sonically, period. I always hear the speakers working hard -- transparency is just not there.
That said, preferences on the speaker sound are, of course, a 100% personal thing; it is clear that the Axiom sound did not appeal to you much. Although you never described the Polk or Axiom sounds any more than "good/bad" and hence I cannot judge what aspects you really liked/disliked of them at all, your post tells one simple fact: No speakers can please everybody -- neither the Axioms not the Polks.
Incidentally, although I personally like the Axiom sound, my own 2.1 system does NOT contain any Axiom speakers -- just to tell you that I am not an all-out Axiom loyalist or fanatic, which I believe very few of the "regulars" here actually are.
I wouldn't buy anything from Crutchfield. They have great customer service and product lines, but their pricing is uncompetitive...
I think we all have been guilty of "forcing" ourselve to like something. My retort wasn't personal,... just an observance of human nature. Don't get me wrong: My hat goes off to Axiom! They offer a fine product, but even you would "prefer a set different from the axioms in the same price range" so why settle?:
Because the hardest part of it all is in the searching...
I am just now ordering a pair of the M80ti's in cherry! I'll post as soon as they come in and share my experience. Hopefully they will charm me.
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Thanks, I love the M-504!
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstran&1068297421
Someone has one for sale at audiogon.com for $395. See above link!
Clinton, for some reason you use language that indicates a bit of a chip is perching on your shoulder, e.g. "blows away" "kills", "cheesy", "just not that good" etc. Hopefully you'll enjoy whatever speakers you finally decide on, but the use of silly terminology isn't helpful.
Absolutely. Its like religion and politics...
My issue though with that particular Axiom model was with the treble rolloff: It was shrill, and over emphasized. Bass definition was non existent, seemingly fake and resonant. I moved the cabs around and experimented with placement to no avail. I am starting to think that maybe its psychological. Before I listened to them I looked up the website and was unnerved by how low in price they were...maybe I psyched myself out? the freind I am holding them for has an AWESOME setup (Mark Levinson/Theil/Magnepan) and I have always garnered his opinion when searching for new gear. The Axioms seem out of place. I have ordered the flagship Axioms out of curiosity (and because they have a 30 day money back guarantee) and figured I have nothing to lose.
My sentiments exactly JohnK.
I heard these Polks at a local dealer and while the setup wasn't optimal, my "opinion" of the Polks is that they sounded smooth and laid back to the point of being distant and veiled and not very life-like. While imaging was good, I found the sound stage to be compressed and shallow.
I would liken the sound of the Polks to having to put up with a steady diet of ice cream.
Perception is reality I guess...
No chip, JohnK, just expressing myself.
Using silly words, like "silly" to describe my expression doesn't help much either, but I'll assume its ok since its you using it this time.
And JohnK,... if that sounded like I have a chip on my shoulder, I do apologize.
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Hello MWC,
Do you own any Axiom's? if so, please elaborate on your listening experince with them. Please mention the model.
If the treble sounded "rolled off", wouldn't that mean the oppisite of "shrill and "over emphasized"?
I'm curious as to why your friend with the "AWSOME" set up would bother with the lowly Axioms.
It depends on how "steep" the rolloff is...Am I offending you sir? You seem a little sensitive to all this...its a message board: relax.
Loosley translates into: Too much of a good thing?
I had a chance to demo the LSi9's in the Polk listening room at the HT expo in NY last year. I was impressed with the warm, full sound coming out of the bookshelves. The bass seemed a bit bloated, but overall, I was impressed.
However, I own the M22's, and while I never A/B'd the Lsi's and the Axioms, I much prefer the clean, detailed sound of the M22's, with a sub filling in the low end, to the more bloated sound of the Lsi9's. And, if you are quoting a price of $599, you're still talking quite a bit higher than M22's from the factory outlet (under $400).
One important factor to keep in mind about the Lsi's is that they are all 4 ohm speakers, and really require a lot of juice to power them. I have read a bunch of stories of people who purchased them expecting to just "plug and play" with their existing receiver, and had major problems due to the ohms. Conversely, the M22's are quite easy to drive with typical receivers.
So, if money is not an object, and you are willing to invest in the proper equipment to drive the Lsi's, and spend the extra money on the Lsi9's vs. the M22's, I think they're very good speakers. But, I'll stick with my M22's.
Clinton, as an aside, have you ever demo'd Ascend Acoustics CBM 170? The CBM 170 is supposed to sound similar to the M22's, but be a bit more "full" sounding. I'd be curious to see if you dislike those as much as you did the Axioms.
Yes slownlo, I own the M22s. I should say that I also own Magnepan and KEF speakers. I ordered the Axioms on a whim after reading all the great reviews. I'm always looking for products with a high value/price ratio. I fully expected to listen to them for the trial period and then send them back to Axiom. I decided to keep them and here is why:
I found them to be some of the most well balanced (treble mid and bass) speakers i've ever heard at any price.
I found the treble region to be exceptional: sparkle and airy yet non fatiguing. And anything BUT rolled off.
In the mid range, voices (especially female) were allowed to open up and flow with out sounding harsh or honky and there is a very good you-are-there sense even for a box speaker(re:Maggies).
Deep bass is just not there nor is it expected to be. But I find the upper bass reigons to be clean, tight and articulate and none of the resonance that you describe.
I've listened to many "higher end" speakers (mostly at the dealers show rooms) with various price points and in the $500 - $2500 range I could find none that I liked more that would justify the higher price than the M22 including my KEFs but excluding the Magnepans. Most of those higher priced speakers were much more attractive in appearence and even in build quality but the sound just didn't justify the extra cost.
Just my opinions.
BTW, I,m not offended but you can't expect to come on a board filled with happy Axiom owners and blast the product
and expect folks to warm up to ya'. And I was truely trying to understand your description of "rolled off".
Good luck with you purchase of the M80s.
Thanks for the luck. I was afraid I had managed to offend, which again was not my intent.
I am anticipating receipt of the M80's! I already have a place carved out in my listening room for when the boxes arrive. I hope they are not too obtrusive (at 39.5x9.25x17), though I think my listening room (20' x 15') will accomodate its new guests just fine...
The ratio of cost to performance is always important, but I also like to look at build standard as well. A speaker is better heard and not seen, but depsite that, it is their physical asthetic that lends to their ability to provide us with a pleasant listening experience and you must admit that the LSi9 is of a high caliber in this regard. The design quality is impeccable. Bass impact is full and smooth, (as are the upper registers) for such a small speaker. This has everything to do with its crossover design: The bottom woofer works up to 200Hz, where it is "rolled off" (sorry I had to go there) with a second-order filter. The top woofer works within the same same frequencies but also continues up through the midrange to 2.4kHz, where it is rolled off with a second-order filter. A third-order filter is used with the hi-range driver, and that flies off up into the 20Khz+ heavens.
I apologize about harping on and on about the LSi9's, but they have just managed to impress me to no end, based on the same reasoning for the Axiom admirers: Price+Performance+ Build quality (and name brand recognition doesn't hurt either). Anyway, my M80's are on the way and I look forward to hearing from them.
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Hi Gem,
Never had a chance to demo the CBM 170, but I'll make it a point to look out for them when windows shopping. Suggestions are always welcome. But for my next move, I am looking to upgrade my Onkyo amp / preamp to a Mark Levinson Model 383 Integrated amp!
Thanks Sushi,
For a moment I thought I got the shaft by buying the m22's instead of the Polk's. My faith in your opinions has been fortified once again. Whew!!
You won't find the Ascend CBM-170s while window shopping. They are internet direct, much like Axiom. What area do you live in? Might be able to find a local person that owns some.
-curtis
He is in Abingdon, Maryland - the poor little fella
Hi Zen, Do you know the Abingdon/Bel Air MD area? I am originally from Massachusetts born and raised in Boston, so the quiet demeanor of Abingdon is most welcome at this point in my life. Still waiting for my M80's to show up....
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No I dont "know it" but from what Ive seen of the MD area in general (Baltimore is where I've spent much my MD time) I cant stand it. Cold and nasty in the winter, hot, muggy and nastier in the summer - not my cup-o-tea.
I've lived in parts of Texas, Florida, NorCal and SoCal, Nevada, and Arizona. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING beats my current place of residence - San Diego, CA - the bestest place on earth that I've ever lived, so far
!
LOL...you think MD is "cold and nasty" in the winter? Try Maine...and their summers suck too. Hot and Humid. There's a tiny little window of about 2 weeks at the first of June when it's nice, and then again at the beginning of September. Other than that New England weather really bites.
Los Angeles is SO much nicer!
Alright, I admit it, Im a wuss
I like my seasons to all feel like spring... so sue me!
oh how can you say that. new england has the best:
sea food
foliage picture show
best offensive drivers
change of the seasons
old age democrats
open minded, considerate, polite people??
but, this is turning into a flame war for another day..
While I'd much rather live in San Diegeo, MD is a nice place to live. And coincidentally, the home of Polk Audio (Baltimore, MD).
And twodan, we've got better seafood!
Frank
big spit. massachusetts is the home of bose!
Yeah, well our baseball team is worse!
(LOL) You guyz are hilarious!
I didn't say anything about the seafood, or foliage, offensive drivers, or even democrats. I just said the weather sucked.
Its no Motor City team
And dont go to the Padres suck card - I just happen to live where they do, I hardly consider them a Major League Baseball Team...
Viva Los Dodgers!
Go Toronto Maple Leaves!!!!....
Anybody here in the path of Isabelle? They already called off school in the southern part of the state of MD. It looks like we are going to get creamed. She seems to be coming right up the Chesapeake...
Dag nabbit! This is going to delay the delivery of my M80's...!!
Here in NYC, we'll probably get hit with some nasty weather but hopefully shouldn't get hit too hard. Some of the coastal areas in the area, including Long Island and the Jersey shore might get slammed though. We'll see.
Good luck to all of you who may be in it's path. I guess you can at least be counting your lucky stars that she shrank from a Category 5 storm down to a Category 2!
I should have stopped at the Bass pro shop on the way home and bought a boat.
Here is Slownlo's thread from 2 years ago ...
oooooooo no Craig, did you have to
Obviously this guy has multiple personalities, at one time he appeared to be one of the gang, but must not have been able to pass initiation, and turned to the dark side..
I always get this morbid curiousity about people who deliberately post in order to offend - looking at their history is part of this curiousity. So, Randy, YES, I had to ...
This is the thread where he must have stopped taking his medication, and turned into the Troll that he is today
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ST&Number=71250&page=3&view=expanded&sb=7&o=0&vc=1
The only other time I saw the repeated use of "trained ear" was from the guy who has had appx. 10 different names on AVS. He uses either "trained ear" or "if you know what to listen for" when telling people what is a good or poor loudspeakers. His method is quite clear - if one disagrees with this guy's speaker choice, one does not have a trained ear, and therefore the opinion expressed by this poor individual is "tossed out".
IT would come as no surprise to discover slownlo is none other than Nightrain. They have quite similar posting patterns.
Or GeneticDrift, if you remeber that former Axiom Troll
This was before Genetic Drift went "anti" in regards to Axiom. There are a lot of key words from "lo" - "mob" stands out big time. In spring, 2004, Nightrain, as "Nicholas R" was posting about the SVS "mob".
Then there is the claim about owning the M-80's for 6 months, when he claimed he was buying them with "nothing to lose, as they have a 30 day return", but he then kept them for 6 months ? Doubtful.
It is usually the case that guys like this never actually ordered the product.
In reply to:
I always get this morbid curiousity about people who deliberately post in order to offend - looking at their history is part of this curiousity.
Lol craig I did the same exact thing. But fortunately I also came across some of Sushi's posts are starting reading his replies. WOW...I was impressed!!! Too bad he's no longer around.
I am in the process of auditioning tower speakers and after a couple of weeks I have determined that, with the exception of B&W 703's, I liked the sound of LSi15's. I can't comment on the LSi9's, as I was looking for floor standing speakers.
That being said, I am working out a plan with Capn Pickard to listen to his M60's.
It has been an eye (ear?) opening experience to listen to the same music tracks time and time again and have them sound so different - depending on the speaker and the receiver/pre-pro used. I never knew that speakers could sound that diverse.
I have determined one certainty - I do not like the sound of Def Tech powered towers with the music I prefer to listen to.
I am looking forward to hearing the M60's, if they sound anything close to the "B&W" sound that I seem to like, then I will be sold.
Cheers,
Rob