Anyone have the LFR 660s? I just put my order in and am pumped! Lots of glowing reviews of 1100s but haven't seen much on the 660s, moving on up from the M5s which were a really great little speaker. Excited to hear what this Omni is all about!
Can't provide feedback but I'm sure they will Rock!
Mine just shipped. I'm sure they'll be tied up in customs for a week or so; but we can compare notes soon!
Great choice! I have no doubt in a head-to-head listening test, the LFR660 would win out over the M100. They will also integrate better in the majority of rooms.
Oh nice Cork! I'll be very interested to hear your opinion while I'm anxiously awaiting mine! What finish did you go with and what are you upgrading from?
Hi Mojo,
Always appreciate your feedback! I hope they would win over the M100's, I know they're not the 1100s but Axiom assured me they were similar sonically with the obvious reduced bass response and reduced overall output. I will have them paired with a Rhythmik E15 that's currently crossed at +/- 50 with the M5s. A buddy came over to listen a couple of weeks ago and said "holy shit it's like a wave of bass washing over me and I can actually hear & feel the roll of the drum stick on the drum head. Hey where is your sub btw?" haha which I took as a sign of good integration. So I'm hoping these will play nice together as well since the freq response is very similar. The overall goals were much better off axis soundstage, because of how my room is set up there is only one sweet spot and generally better immersion. Several times with the M5s, with my eyes closed mostly on well recorded live tracks, I would be weirded out because it sounded like the performance was literally in my listening room. That x10 is what I'm hoping for haha.
I did consider the refub 1100s in the deals store but with other projects these were a much more palatable purchase and I usually listen and very much enjoy at about 80db, stupid neighbors, so it seemed like the 660 was the best choice for that toe in the water of the DSP tech.
Are these 660s for your cabin? Still sitting about 8 feet away? The 660s might feel like you're sitting amongst the band.
I think the bass integration may be better in your room with 660s vs M5s. When I had my actives in my living room, which is about the same size as your space, the bass could not possibly have been any better!
Ahh haaaa now that's what I was hoping to hear! I was a little nervous to go down to the 660 since the 1100s have such glowing reviews and almost nothing on 660s which makes sense considering how much more output the 1100s can produce.
Yes these are for at the cabin, have gone full crazy since Dec when I was first setting the system up. I find now that I've gotten the M5s and the room set up and imaging so well that at night I enjoy listening to music so much a whole weekend will go by without even turning on the TV. I think with these since they will need to be off the back wall a little more I will end up at about 6.5-7' MLP and about the same +/- 7' apart.
Yes, I think you will be in the middle of the action. BTW, the last two weeks, I've been using the TV only for YouTube Music.
Went with Cherry-Bordeaux; which came out perfect. I'm upgrading from 28 years of my wife saying no to speakers in the living room. I have M5/M2s in my study and family room, both of which I love; so I'm expecting a nice improvement over those.
I also got the M80s, and I'm going to compare and keep the pair I like best. The M80s got set up last week, and they are awesome in the mid and high end; but lacking in the low end (no sub). But I'm 90% sure that was because I was using a very old 8 ohm Onkyo amp that I had stashed in the garage for 10 years.
The end-game amp is coming with the LFR660; so that'll be the real test.
Anyway, at 8 feet away I'd think the LFRs would be a better choice than the M100s. I was a little worried about the M80s 11 feet away, and I do think they're bordering on overkill. (So Mojo you were right.)
Even though the 80s reach lower on paper, I think you will both like the bass on the 660s better in your rooms.
The imaging will be sharper with easier to listen to upper mids and highs. The soundstage will also be deeper and wider. Once properly placed, I expect the 660s will acoustically disappear.
Cork, I can't wait to see that finish I was contemplating that same combo I'm sure it'll be really nice. I've never gotten anything but black oak so I'm excited for a change of pace.
I have M80 V4s in my theater set up but really haven't been in a room or house where I can crank it and let them shine so I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on the comparison especially with some power! They sound good in my apt but have barely been able to be worked out.
Hey J, I really look forward to your reviews of the 660, been thinking about that speaker. I love my M100s and every other axiom speaker I have, which is almost all of them less the omnis! Please take some pics and share!
I def will! Should be shipping soon, hopefully this week. I was up north listening to the M5s this past weekend and man they sound so good, very excited to see how much improvement there is with the DSP and Omni design.
Cork, when do you get yours?? the M80/660 shoot out is going to be an interesting comparison. Are you going to be able to A/B them or just swap back and forth? I plan to keep the M5s hooked up and listen to 3 songs I'm very familiar with that imagine really well and then hook up the 660s and play the same. Not very scientific but will hopefully give me a little comparison.
Mojo - Any song suggestions for a comparison? Currently thinking, Norah Jones - Black Hole Sun, London Orion Orchestra - Shine on you Crazy Diamond, and Buddy Guy - Come Back Muddy
Will check them out, thanks!
Have you taken delivery of your new speakers Ritz?
Unfortunately no, haven’t even shipped yet. Yesterday was 21 business days from order. I emailed JC and called a few times to see what’s up but no answer or reply
Getting very antsy! Haha
No worries man, you will get them. It's the wait that kills us. Been there, done that. I'm sure you will be seeing them ship soon. I really look forward to your review. Have faith.
Today is Canada Day a national holiday, Axiom will be closed. Also here in Ontario we are still coming out of a two month lockdown, phase 2 starts tomorrow. I'm sure they are trying their hardest to do business with a skeleton staff and like every other business dealing with a shortage of materials. It will come, It will be worth it!
Thanks for the update. I figured something was going on because they’ve always been fast responding to inquiries.
Londoncalling is right. I just received a couple subwoofer amps for an install. Dont worry! Things are still moving over there; albeit a little hampered by the covid situation we’re all in for a bit longer.
My outdoor speakers are coming today so I'll have something to install this weekend.
They owe me a few speakers as well.
Since I won't need them till I get the HT a bit further along I think they are holding off till then
(to get others their speakers who need them sooner). Ok by me ... just hope they don't forget.
I'm taking good care breaking yours in.
Ahhh Mojo, if only we all could live in your fantasy land
So long as no one's getting hurt, we can all live wherever we want.
rrlev, your speaker room has to be the longest build ever, do you have new pics, love to see your progress?
I’ll be stuck here
Post442718 till next month.
The only thing I’ll be doing this month will be attempting to snake a wire from the hall fire alarm into the HT.
As Trevor’s pointed out the house could be burning down, the fire alarms blazing, and you wouldn’t know it till you were toast.
Geez, Rich. Take some risks. Have some fun!
You can put smoke high on wall so long as room is left between it and ceiling/corner. I wanna say 16” is code but I cant remember. Much easier to do this maybe.
Geez, Rich. Take some risks. Have some fun!
Hey Mojo, I'm putting on "The Towering Inferno" ... bring the marshmallows.
The theater is actually a fire trap. One way in and cement walls on three sides.
You can put smoke high on wall so long as room is left between it and ceiling/corner. I wanna say 16” is code but I cant remember. Much easier to do this maybe.
Is that the same in the states?
I can still get the alarm on the ceiling ... just have to run the wire over the MLV. From there is about 3" to the finish ceiling.
Ours had to be on the ceiling within a certain distance to the door but that was in a bedroom. We also had to have one in the hallways outside of each bedroom. Being that it's a theater room and not a bedroom where someone is sleeping I'm not sure that there is code on that other than you would obviously want to know in the event of a fire. I may still have the building code specs at the house. If I do I'll send you the updated code.
Geez, Rich. Take some risks. Have some fun!
Hey Mojo, I'm putting on "The Towering Inferno" ... bring the marshmallows.
The theater is actually a fire trap. One way in and cement walls on three sides.
I'll bring my fire pit. Let's burn 'er to the ground! Yeeeehawwww!
Ceiling a sure bet. Confirm your local code requirements if on wall.
Our codes are based off yours, so likely same.
Welll I got all the parts and pieces, the 660s + integrated DSP ADA1000 and got back up north last weekend to get them all set up. I was a little worried about the caramel walnut being to light, after finding some of Mojo's pic's buried in the threads. They are in direct light but up north where it's a little dimmer and softer light, they're just perfect. So very pleased with the finish color aesthetic, and great quality as usual. These were my first non Black Oak order and went based on the web photo so was excited and nervous.
I was beginning to second guess whether it would worth the cost of the upgrade from the M5s after I had time to ponder for a while. The conclusion is, holy shit yes! A couple of things to note, my goals were wider, deeper soundstage and better off axis stereo effect from MLP. The 660's deliver + some!
The MLP still is a noticeable sweet spot, there is almost an ORB of sound cocooning you, the surround effect is literally mind blowing and almost eerie on creepy PF samples (perfect sense for example) haha. Soundstage is massive and very deep, hearing smaller details much more clearly as they separate across the image instead of sounding on top of each other. Roger Waters in the flesh, is of course a fun listen, but the weird SFX, samples, crowd noise all sound like it's surround sound. The dogs barking in Dogs sounded like it was my neighbors and the laughing in Brain Damage, was like a floating laughing skull bouncing around the room. I was completely astounded. The image was so wide in Miles Davis - Kind of Blue, it felt like I was front row in the club. Similar results for all my fav listens and well recorded live shows make you feel like you're in the crowd.
The stereo sound while cooking or simply sitting in a different location is so insane, it fills the whole cabin with great sound and detail and do not miss things or weight different sides more heavily than the other. This alone is huge. especially since a lot time of there is spent with friends in front of the wood stove or playing games, etc. and not just one specific seat.
I have them coupled with my Rythmik E15 and it's bliss (getting that low wave of bass that sounds like the massive array in an arena is amazing), I do think the sub is necessary with the 660s, the 880s and 1100s def benefit from the added usable low frequency, but for my space with the normal volumes being fairly tame the 660+sub is a match made in heaven and do not feel I am missing out. The 1100s would have been overkill and overpowering in my space I think. I had the feeling that I was giving something up with "only" going for the 660s when barely anything is written or reviewed on them. Adding the sub makes them full range down to +/-14Hz and all qualities I've read about the passive 1100s are present. So very very happy with them and have already sent back the M5s, even though I've only had about 6hrs to listen. I think it will improve even more as I get used to them. Literally cannot imagine a better experience unless Ian and Andrew decide to make fully active 660s in which case my wallet will be upset, so I hope that doesn't happen for a year or 3 haha. Although I am very interested to hear the fully active 1100s now, how can it get any better?!
Jritz, that awesome! Isn't it great when you get the improvement you're hoping for but can't quite believe is possible?
I wound up going with the M80s over the LFR660s, and I see that you also have M80s. Where they in the same room? And if they were, how would you characterize the difference between them?
Cork, thanks! It's a great feeling to be really satisfied with such a large purchase, especially this day in age haha.
I think you weren't running a sub? I can see how the 660s might leave you wanting for more in the lower frequency range. It's such a large part of the experience, for me anyway. I do have the M80s, in my home theater set up at my apt. I have a cabin up in the White Mountains in NH and that's where the 2.1 set up is. I find that at home I have a hard time sitting to listen but love movies and while up north really enjoy relaxing and listening to music more than watching TV/Movie. So I've never really been able to compare the M80s for music listening. I just started the foray into 2 channel music during the pandemic, as I snuck away to the cabin for a few months to get outta dodge.
I would say the M5s + Sub are probably similar to the M80s or at least as close as I can compare. The sub digs deeper but the 660s alone def miss some of the excitement, which I think is far more noticeable to the overall experience than the added benefits of the LFR so I can see why you'd favor the M80s. But couple the LFRs with a good sub that's articulate and goes low and its a match made in heaven. I also listen at moderate volumes, so 660 is good otherwise M80, 880, 1100 will obviously be the better horse. I'd say the difference is the the width and depth of the soundstage, and obviously the off axis performance. These were my key areas to upgrade. The sound "quality" isn't better persay but the experience is better when doing other things I enjoy, casual listening is drastically improved while eating, cooking, playing games, whatever. The added "surround effect" is a weird and awesome bonus and better definition of instruments through the wider sound stage provides much better image clarity at the MLP. I found it much easier to be transported to the venue and visualize the instruments.
The M80s Rock for HT and really like them with the VP160, unfortunately I've been in an apt for a while and not been able to really let them or any of the other speakers get a good workout in.
I'd say the difference is the the width and depth of the soundstage, and obviously the off axis performance. These were my key areas to upgrade. The sound "quality" isn't better persay but the experience is better when doing other things I enjoy, casual listening is drastically improved while eating, cooking, playing games, whatever. The added "surround effect" is a weird and awesome bonus and better definition of instruments through the wider sound stage provides much better image clarity at the MLP. I found it much easier to be transported to the venue and visualize the instruments.
This generally echoes a few opinions of the LFRs including my own.
The quality isn't better, but the soundstage is changed, very wide off axis, and almost a surround effect but not less precise for instruments up front. It helps the speakers disappear more though i could see how some people might also perceive this sound as too diverse and consequently loss of detail/accuracy. I've heard dipoles upfront before and they fit that description, but i didn't find that when i heard the LFRs.
The quality isn't better, but the soundstage is changed, very wide off axis, and almost a surround effect but not less precise for instruments up front. It helps the speakers disappear more though i could see how some people might also perceive this sound as too diverse and consequently loss of detail/accuracy. I've heard dipoles upfront before and they fit that description, but i didn't find that when i heard the LFRs.
Just a general thought ... on listening and the time it takes to get LFRs setup right (I can only speak for the actives)
It took a bit of time getting my active LFR's setup. Had to play around quite a bit to get the stage right while maximizing the width of the sweet spot. With the actives it's even more work as the 7 position boundary compensation adds an extra variable. To zero that in you end up trying to get the best setup for a few of compensation positions and then trying to remember which was better (I have to take notes and mark the positions). BTW, I found it harder on the long wall then the short in my room.
It's fairly easy, especially if the compensation is not set right, to get sound every where without a great image or an image with fuzzy detail or a good image with a small sweet spot. So one needs to wonder if someone tells you that the sound was "too diverse" or " loss of detail/accuracy" did they take the time?
Oh, one more thing ...
I can't speak for the passive LFRs ... but the quality of sound on the actives was a noticeable step up.
Like Rich said, you have to invest the time to set them up properly. That's the case with the vast majority of speakers. I don't know about the passive LFRs either but I can vouch for the transparency, imaging and soundstage of the actives. The sound with the actives isn't "coloured" either like it is with the M100, M5, etc. Those are wonderful-sounding speakers but sorry - compared to the actives - they are colored.
The room matters too. Cork tried but Jritz got better results. Maybe jritz's room is bigger, more evenly balanced across the reflecting surfaces, etc. Also maybe jritz just values soundstage and imaging more than other aspects.
I can also vouch for not using a centre. I've done a lot of testing and there is no doubt - zero - that actives with no centre for movie watching is far more accurate than with centre at the MLP. Dialogue to the left and right of centre collapses to the center with a center speaker. Not so with the actives and it is quite uncanny frankly. Also the imaging is far more natural-sounding - like you're listening to a real person rather than a more localized voice. Once you hear both of these qualities, you can't go back. I couldn't achieve this with any other speaker.
BTW, I look at how the passive LFRs were set up in Axiom's demo room and I know they weren't set up properly. So Chess, what you heard was likely crap. I think you just need to do yourself a solid and stop torturing yourself and try them in your space.
If you don't like them, punt them back to Axiom.
On the center:
If your seating in the theater is inside the LFR's wider sweet spot then I'll 2nd Mojo's recommendation,
Unfortunately, most of our home theaters are designed for more than two or three seats.
In my case the virtual center was good for 3 max. When I tried 4 seats the image was marginal at best. Some material seemed center, when sitting at the far seats, and other material sounded fuzzy .., or even flipping from centered ok to fuzzy/center to fuzzy/side depending. It was a bit tiring as it took a mental toll as you were trying to keep the sound centered.
A real center would anchor the sound at the center for all seats ... even those far out of the sweat-spot. Because of this ...I will have a center.
To take it a bit further:
The same applies for the surround speakers. It's the reason we want move up .. 7.1, 9.1, 11.1 ... 22.1?
So, everyone in the room will hear a sound coming from the same place ... in other words we are relying less on imaging and more on point sources.
Yup. I am so done with worrying about anything else than MLP. And that's why 4.9 is good enough for me.
Is that the "Mojo first" campaign?
I'm going to run for the hills if you start passing out "Make Mojo Great Again" buttons
Hmmm...well...let's see now. Like most of you males out there, I was the one who worked to pay for my system. I slaved to tune it. If you have kids, they're likely audio troglodytes who think ear buds are God's gift to their entertainment. As for spouses, yoga, hair and finger nails are all more important than pornosonics. Friends may appreciate good sound, so you may want to share the MLP when they're over. I posit therefore, the MLP and those who slaved to optimize it - that's us - is all that matters. Therefore, we all need "me first" buttons.
Thanks for your thoughts on the differences Jritz. The discussions make sense and helps explain why I like the M80s more: I'm definitely plopped at MLP for the duration of listening, am not using a a sub, and did not spend much time mucking with placement (because I didn't have a lot of options anyway; although I did futz with wall separation and the DSP wall boundary button a bit).
I have M5s in two other rooms, both with a sub and I think the M80s are more precise; but that may be due to the M80s being in a more open room (both subs are Hsu, so at least not bad).
All-in-all, it's good to have options!
Just read thru this. This is a good thread. Anymore reviews jritz having had them a while longer now?