While cleaning the innards of my 11 yr old Onkyo I accidentally broke a whole bunch of stuff so I may need to buy something new. Any suggestions?
Alternatively, I could put my Denon 2802 upstairs and upgrade my HT receiver but the old lady probably wouldn't be as happy with that idea.
Thanks.
Now that everyone (ourselves included) is into home theater, this is your chance to pick up top notch stereo equipment at bargain prices. Have fun. Check out the used receivers on ebay and audiogon, but also take a look at pre-amps and amps. Now's your chance to pick up the stereo system you dreamed of 10 years ago for as low a price as it will ever be. A few years from now the really good stuff will be gone, or be fought over by collectors.
Mark, I'm sorry, but that made me laugh!
Just how much stuff did you break? All at the same time, or just little by little? Been drinking? Enough?
I'm sure it's not funny, but I just got a mental image in my head about broken Onkyo innards.
I'm thinking vintage tube amp.
I admit...I giggled a bit myself.
How about a nice used integrated unit like
this
I can't remmeber if I was drinking or not, but it all happened when I gave that flat, wide ribbon-looking thing a little tug. Some incredibly brittle plastic broke and then little metal pieces started popping out of there like they had been spring loaded. I'm sure it's fixable, but it had been shorting in and out anyway.
Unless I'm wrong that Rotel on e-bay doesn't look like it has a tuner or the ability to switch inputs. I was thinking more along the lines of a simple 2 channel receiver that won't break the bank. Clean and ample power would be nice in case it ever becomes part of my HT in a future 7.1 set-up.
Bigwill that is sad,
but definitely humourous.
The mental image it brings to mind should keep me in good spirits all day but please don't think i'm delighting in your misfortune.
I know i'm not alone.
panasonic sa xr45 $300 digital amp. try the xr 25 at circuit city, but I'd order the 45 for the same price online. Use a digital cable from player to receiver. This lets the receiver do the amplification. search audiocirlce.com or audio asylum about this little receiver. It's a killer sound for a bargain price. matched with some axioms and you'll be listening to your cd collection all over again like it's new.
That Pioneer looks like a darn good value at the prices quoted online. I'm not sure if I'd put that upstairs or use it to replace the Denon 2802 in my HT.
Anybody want to help out an overworked new dad by providing that link to the page detailing actual, measured output of the various receivers?
Duff, I'd go with the Panasonic XR45 as well! Digital amplification - pure sounding though some complaints about brightness - should compliment the Axioms very well!
If you're flush, but not reckless, I'd definitely recommend an Antique Sound Labs MG S1 15 DT integrated SET TUBE amp. This amp is a wonder !! I've listened to REALLY expensive tube amps which do not sound as good as this giant killer.
I've used this ASL with a pair of M3Tis and M22 like speakers and can tell you I've heard the magic!!
I use my tubie with Mapleshade weirdly thin speaker cables and this is also a wonderful combination. Mapleshade will build (rebuild) a vintage Scott amp for you for a very good price.
http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/tweaks/tubeamps.php
Enjoy the music!
I was thinking more along the lines of the $149 refurbished Kenwood 6050 that I saw today at their outlet store. I'm not sure that my upstairs set-up is going to get much action so I don't want to go crazy.
"Don't want to go crazy"? We're talking audio, Big Will.
Well, there are always the Antique Sound Labs Wave 8 monoblocks for about $100 each. They've gotten RAVE reviews, and have been tested with M3Tis which several reviewers found to be a terrific match.
How did you know I was thinking of using M3s upstairs?
I almost came to the conclusion that I should use my wife's old Fisher receiver (circa 1984 from The Broadway) to drive some white Bose cubes that I have laying around, but the prices of these low-end recivers and the price of the M3s has me thinking, "Why not?"
Because the M3Tis make such beautiful, sweet music.
Bose cubes? Bose Bad. No midrange.
and no treble, and no bass...
Mark,
this should be the link you were looking for on receiver output:
Sound & Vision
Thanks Sid, but that page won't display on my computer for some reason. I found it last night on my own with the same results.
I was finally able to view that S&V page on a computer at work, but neither of the two cheapie receivers I'm looking at - Kenwood 6050 ($149) and Pioneer VSX-D711 ($179) - were included in the testing. Power ratings aren't that important but I would like it to sound clean. Any input would be appreciated. I'm going to google both of them right now. Adios.
Mark, there's no reason that either of the receivers that you're considering wouldn't give you audibly clean amplification. Distortion when listening to music doesn't begin to become audible until it's over 1%. If you can find a feature that you like and it's just on one, go with that; otherwise maybe pick the one that looks better to you.
Thanks John. Not knowing what level of THD(?) was audible, I was concerned when I saw the Sound & Vision test results. Some of the Kenwoods and Pioneers seemed to have comparatively high rates. But if I remember right: very, very few of the recievers tested (and none of the Pioneers or Kenwoods) measured over that 1%.
Excellent.
Are you sure you want a receiver for wherever you are putting it? As someone noted above, you can get killer deals on vintage 2-channel gear now. I just picked up a Yamaha 75wpc integrated amp for $76. I cleaned it up just a bit and it's dynamite. Oh yes, if you are still thinking M3Ti they are dynamite too, if running in a situation where they have to be all alone. Separate tuners are also cheap and can be much higher quality than what they put in receivers these days.
Absolutely right webbb. I picked up a 250 wpc/8ohm (20Hz-20KHz) Yamaha M80 for $100, and a Denon digital tuner from Good Will for $10 - my garage system is one of my best.
Yamaha M80s, M60s, Kenwood KA9100, Pioneer SA9800 and SA9900, Onkyo Integra M504, 506, 508s. These are truly great 2 channel amplifiers and folks are dumping them for multichannel amps every day. One approach is to go on the great used amplifier truffle hunt.
ubid.com from time to time still auctions the 120 wpc Onkyo M282 for about $100. Onkyo gets $300 for new, $210 for refurb. If you can grab one from ubid for a bit over $100, GRAB ONE.
If Axiom teaches us one thing it is that great quality can be had at a decent price. Bang for the buck. The value you can find in used amps is impossible to top.
Just a thought ...
Decide on how much you want to spend, and then look
at what is offered! Find units that have the features,
ergonomics, price, etc. that you like. Listen in the store as best you can to narrow the field, but you really want to try it out at home with your own system. Buy it from a retailer that offers good return policies (some have 30 day no questions asked returns), bring it home and try it out.
A list of the usual suspects (as of a year or so ago when I bought my Marantz) is below. Note that all of these *claim* to be able to drive 4-ohm loads. Marantz SR-4120, the HK models, and the NAD put out specs at 4-ohms, if that means anything.
Onkyo TX8211: 50 W/ch, 4 inputs, $200
Onkyo TX8511: 100 W/ch, 6 inputs, $300
Integra DTM-5.3: 100 W/ch, 6 inputs, multiroom, $400.
Denon DRA295: 50 W/ch, 5 inputs, pre-outs, no phono, $250
Denon DRA395: 80 W/ch, 6 inputs, multiroom, pre-outs, $350
Denon DRA685: 100 W/ch, 6 inputs, pre-out/main-in, 6 inputs, $500
HK3370, 70 W/ch, 5 inputs, pre/main, sub-outs, $300
HK3470, 100 W/ch, 6 inputs, pre/main, sub-outs, $400
Marantz SR-4120: 60 W/ch, 4 inputs, pre-out, $400
Marantz SR-4320: 80 W/ch, 7 inputs, pre/main, $400
NAD C740: 35 W/ch, ,6? inputs, no phono, pre/main, $550
Yamaha RX396: 50 W/ch, 5 inputs, $300
Yamaha RX496: 75 W/ch, 6 inputs, $350
Yamaha RX596: 80 W/ch, 6 inputs, beefier than 496, $450
Yamaha RX777: 100 W/ch, 7 inputs, pre/main, $600
At the time, the Marantz 4120 was old and the 4320 was new; the 4120 is no longer made. Also, HK seems to come out with slightly different models every year these days by upping the power 5-10 watts each time.
Without knowing your budget, it's hard to say a whole lot.
If it were me, I'd see if the less expensive receivers would do the trick before looking at higher priced options. That leaves more $$$ for CDs! For example, the little $200 Onkyo TX-8211 is a decent unit for very little money. An extra $100 boosts you up to the TX-8511 with 100 watts/channel. If you want pre-amp outputs you'll have to look at Denon, HK, Marantz, NAD and Rotel (all of these but the Denon have pre-out/main-in loops). Some units have multi-room capability (different sources in different rooms, but require separate amps for the second zone): Denon DRA-395 and the Integra DTM-5.3. By the way, the Integra DTM-5.3 is essentially the Onkyo TX-8511 with much better connectors, a different face plate, and the multi-zone capability. If you often listen at low volumes you may like the Yamaha variable loudness control (I just boost the bass and treble a bit, but to each their own). Tuner performance can be quite different for various models, but the only way to know if a tuner is adequate for you is to try it out at home. On paper the Marantz has the worst tuner. But if you needed a spectacular tuner you wouln't be looking at receivers anyway.
I actually bought a B-stock (refurbished) Marantz SR4120 for $250. I was very happy with it, until about Christmas when it crapped out. After bringing it in for warranty service for the 3rd time, Marantz is replacing it with a brand new SR4320. So I can say that Marantz stands behind its products.
Oh, you want to know about sound???? Don't believe anything I would write about that. Listening for yourself is the best way to find what you like.
Cheers.
Jason
What do you think people do we have a champ for the best newbie post ever????
Great post Jason, thx for the research!
I originally thought that I wanted a 2 channel system in the gameroom, but decided I might as well leave my options open. Currently the wife and 5 mo old son will be the primary listeners in that room and I don't think they care as much about sound quality as some of us.
My parents visit for a month or two at a time and I know my Dad would appreciate his own little mini-theater upstairs (it's a pretty large, quiet house) so maybe after getting it started he'll pay for the rest.
I settled on M3s with the Pioneer VSX-D711 from Costco at $179.99. Will do 5.1 DTS and has a 24 bit processor thingee. We'll see how it sounds tomorrow.
Thanks for all the expert advice, even if it did fall on deaf ears.
