is this: on biwireable speakers (M60 M80, etc), replace the metal straps between the two pairs of terminals with copper wire. Then connect your + wire to the top + terminal, and the - wire to the bottom - terminal. If you have it, spray some CAIG ProGold on each connection.
Try it, you will really like it. The copper wire seems to conduct the signal much better than the straps.
Of course, this scheme doesn't apply if you are biwiring your speakers, although, if you rewire as described, you won't need to biwire.
I replaced mine with leather straps from old suitcases, it makes it much easier to move them around.
LOL!
But in all seriousness... my previous speakers (Paradigm Monitor 9) were bi-wireable and I replaced the straps with short lengths of cable. I though I could hear a difference at first, but there really wasn't a noticeable difference when I swapped the straps back in.
I guess I should have bought that CAIG stuff...
the one you're talking about? I thought that in biwiring, we are supposed to remove the metal bridge between the binding posts.
Here's a decent explanation between bi-wiring and bi-amping.
http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize031998.htm
Anybody bi-amping or bi-wiring? If so, is it a major improvement? I tried it once but found out that the wires and amps should be indentical. I also had a problem with one of the amps. I had to go back to the standard setup.
Yes,...I am,(bi-wire)....Monster "M" Series (factory made wire set).
I also found them to add a subtle improvement to the bass line........but, watch out!...this kind of thread can bring out the "placebo police", and they will be all over you like a "cheap suit".
I don't think reputable speaker companies like Axiom would make their speakers Bi-wire able or Bi-amp able if it was a bunch of bullsh*t.
Then again who knows?
I've upgraded the capacitors (Jensen paper/oi in some and Audiocap Thetas in others) and resistors (Caddocks in some and Mills in others). This will void your warranty, but will provide an audible improvement in sound quality.
They do it because their customers expect it. That's my bet, at least.
I actually think it says right in the Axiom manual that comes with their speakers that they don't believe it makes any difference in sound, but they offer it, because many people want it.
You're right spiffme. I remember Alan in one of his news lettres saying effectively the same thing, that bi amping / bi wiring makes no difference.
jag
Yes, Axiom puts two sets of terminals on a couple of its speakers as a concession to those audio cultists who would demand that their hallucinatory lust for bi-wiring could be satisfied. Having done that however, it would be remarkable if after all their design efforts, speaker designers would sabotage their own speakers(for the vast majority who wouldn't bi-wire)by bridging the terminals with something that somehow degrades the performance. The brass used in jumpers has higher resistance than copper and if the cross-sectional area was the same(the area is greater than some wires) it would have more resistance than copper wire. Over a distance of 2-3" this would be totally meaningless and using a piece of wire from a coathanger would work just fine.
You're the funniest man in North America.
Thanks, I was curious. It would be worth exploring it made a difference in sound. A lot of people swear by it. I’m always pessimistic when it comes to things like this.
Actually, the best tweak you can do is get the best placement.
Its true !
Darn, I expected more howls of outrage from the Axiom Forum Flat Earth Society. Oh well, I'll just have to make do.
Of course, not one of the people knocking this idea has actually tried it. They never will but even if they did, they wouldn't admit that there was an improvement in sound.
"Yes, Axiom puts two sets of terminals on a couple of its speakers as a concession to those audio cultists who would demand that their hallucinatory lust for bi-wiring could be satisfied."
Ever heard of biamping?
"The brass used in jumpers has higher resistance than copper and if the cross-sectional area was the same(the area is greater than some wires) it would have more resistance than copper wire. Over a distance of 2-3" this would be totally meaningless and using a piece of wire from a coathanger would work just fine."
Another example of someone who wants to "do the math" but not do the real world experiment.
Umm, try reading the second reply to your post. I did try replacing the straps with speaker wire. I was even expecting there to be a change (which tends to invoke the placebo effect). The fact is, I heard no change at all.
And don't knock math. The fact is, cable length is one of the most important variables when you're discussing signal integrity. Even the best cable in the world will fail to transmit a signal with integrity if it's too long.
I'm neutral here, saying that, I don't want to dismiss anything that could improve the sound quality at the same time I don’t want to waste hard earned cash either.
A lot of people get too caught up in audio occult or snake oil. I think if someone that I know and trust performed this I would have to do a blind test. Then if I noticed a difference I would try it myself. I have a degree in electrical engineering, but I don’t do it for my career, that said, I am no doubt a cut and dry personality and I can't help it.
"Flat Earth Society" "Another example of someone who wants to 'do the math'"
Yeah, math sucks. It can describe how the universe works, but not audio! And those damn people who pay attention to science are behind and also think the world is flat. Whut?
BZ, there appear to be very few members of the Flat Earth Society who frequent the Axiom forums. As you know, the FES is composed of individuals who choose to ignore well-established scientific facts and instead suggest that you should "just trust your eyes". They themselves have clearly seen that the earth is flat, have many friends who have seen this, and suggest that anyone who approaches the subject with an open mind and looks for himself will see the same thing.
The analogous belief in the audio realm is held by those who would ignore years or even decades of well-established audio engineering principles and insist "just trust your ears". Of course when actually called upon to do this for the first time(in a properly controlled blind listening test)and the nameplates and pricetags have disappeared, the differences in sound which were previously described in flowery terms have likewise disappeared.
In general I think a trial and error approach without benefit of math can get kind of expensive. The tweak you are suggesting seems harmless enough and shouldn't cost much more than a little time (always in short supply
)!
Keep in mind that I don't doubt you hear a difference. However, you probably shouldn't be so sure that other people will also hear a difference unless you've used a little more rigor in your testing than just your own observations.
I don't think you will find much outrage here as you will a healthy dose of scepticism around sound 'enhancement' claims. Perhaps this is the case because there are so many
science/INTJ types here.
It's all good as long as you're happy with the results.
Salut, Eric!
In reply to:
However, you probably shouldn't be so sure that other people will also hear a difference...
There! To me, there are at least four very different questions on this topic, and they are often detrimentally rolled into one.
1. Is there a difference?
2. If it exists, can *I* perceive the difference?
3. If I can perceive the difference, do I have a preference?
4. If I have a preference, is the increased cost/trouble a good *value* to me?
Obviously, I care much less about the science than about the human benefit. I'm basically a libertarian audiophile; whatever you enjoy spending your time/money on is fine with me. As long as you don't buy it at Wal-Mart.
In reply to:
As long as you don't buy it at Wal-Mart.
whats wrong with wal-mart?? we got us a real nice one on the edge of town.. sells food and everything. its gotta bank, a hair cuttin place, an optomotrist, and a mcdonalds... all under one roof.. now thats some one stop shopping if i ever seen it!!
bigjohn
Just think, you'll never be able, err want to leave.
" on the edge of town.. "
They have been accused of leading the downtown cores of many cities into virtual wastelands, and fostering the low wage segment of the population. I heard that there is a movement to unionize certain locations, paricularly in Quebec.
its definitely a monopoly, there is no doubt about that.
the 'supercenter' that opened on the edge of town is centrally located at a highway intersection that was just completed after a 20 year building project.. (NO KIDDING, 20 YEARS).. anyway, the highway has actually created a sort of building BOOM on that side of town.. just in the last 12 months we have a new home depot, circuit city, lowes, bed/bath and beyond, a new yamaha dealership, new mazda dealership, new ford dealership, and a starbucks..
in that same time, the local k-mart closed, and a local mom and pops hardware store closed.. so, it depends on what side of the fence you stand on if you see it as good or bad. ??
bigjohn
Oh God, he's going to make me hijack this thread.
Wal-Mart is one of the most unethically run commercial enterprises in the history of the world. They are anti-union and anti-public-education. They abuse wage and overtime laws relentlessly. Their predatory marketing practices force the loss of American jobs. They systematically provide poverty-level wages and benefits to employees, while deliberately shifting the corresponding health care burden to public programs. Shopping at Wal-Mart is making a deal with the devil; you get a short-term cost savings in return for incrementally undermining opportunities for living-wage jobs in your own country. Wal-Mart is the evidence other countries and future generations will cite as what is wrong with Capitalism.
I take this all very personally, and very seriously. I am a union member and a union employee. Wal-Mart contributes to extreme political groups in my state that would like me to be unemployed. I will never shop at Wal-Mart.
This one is a pretty good synopsis.
Here is an in-depth look at how the hugeness of Wal-Mart contributes to the loss of American jobs.
I have little common political ground with the
National Organization for Women, but they concisely convey the reprehensible practices perpetrated by Wal-Mart.
We vote at the polls, and at the cash register. It is beyond time to demonstrate your economic preference for firms that share your core values.
Uh-oh Tom, I don't want to disagree with you. I've read those stories about Wal-Mart helping their employees apply for public assistance. That ain't right.
However, grocery store checkers elsewhere are paid wages far exceeding the fair market value for that labor. With the advent of the price scanner a checker's job just doesn't seem like one that should bring wages of $20/hr. It certainly doesn't seem like a job one should count on as a career.
tom, i am union also.. CWA 6171, a steward in my dept in fact.
i shop wal-mart cause everytime i leave there, my receipt is lower than any other place i shop. i have never investigated the labor angle of the store, i just know i get good deals there.. but, i kinda agree with bigwill on this.. sales checkers, stock boys, and dressing room attendant arent exactly career jobs. they ARE minimum pay kinda jobs. no different than the bagger and stock boys at super markets all across the US. i would bet that wal-mart pays a slightely higher pay to those employees in those positions(by comparison to local market) than any other place in town? just a guess..
i worked at our towns old walmart all through high school, and they paid me OK for a 17-18 year old kid. it was just enough to get me what i wanted.. but, also, it was enough to make me realize that i didnt want to do it for the rest of my life.
a job is a job.. i aint putting down what you are saying. but if led your whole life only purchasing from companies that were 'union friendly', you better start growing a garden, cause there wont be too many places for you to shop!
bigjohn
This is from Wal-Mart's Canadian site:
QUEBEC CITY, QUEBEC – A Wal-Mart located in Jonquière, Quebec is on its way to becoming the only unionized Wal-Mart in North America after a ruling on Monday by the Quebec Labour Relations Board (QLRC) to grant employees union certification with UFCW Canada (United Food and Commercial Workers Canada).
The union accreditation was issued by the QLRC after a majority of employees at the Saguenay-region store, about 220 kilometres north of Quebec City, signed UFCW Canada membership cards. A hearing has been scheduled for August 20th to finalize the makeup of the bargaining unit, following a statement by QLRC adjudicator Jocelyne Houle that no matter the definition of the unit, "the applicant is representative, as required by law."
"This is great victory for the workers in Jonquière, and for Wal-Mart workers everywhere," said Michael J. Fraser, UFCW Canada's national director.
"Wal-Mart is on the record stating they support workplace democracy," said Fraser. "The majority of workers in Jonquière have spoken, so we expect Wal-Mart to listen and get down to negotiating a first contract without delay."
Fraser went on to say, "Wal-Mart has also now gone on the record stating that ‘we would not close the store because of a union'."
"So Wal-Mart workers should stop believing the rumours their stores will close if they exercise their right to form a union," said Fraser. "What's happened in Quebec can happen at any Wal-Mart store in North America. Jonquière is only the first of more to come."
