Alright so I've been doing some exploring of the forum as I usually do, and I've noted in a few threads that a lot of people seem happy with just two speakers (be they m60's, or m3's, or what have you)... Some even find the bass too much with the 60's..
Am I the only one that, while the 60's are awesome, once adding a subwoofer, Music is so lacking without it? Yes my 60's rock in stereo, but now that the LFE is being handled by my subwoofer, anything else is just lacking.... Perhaps I've gotten used to feeling the bass in my spinal cord, or having my entire room shake with the right song, or being able to move furniture around, a floor away, yeah a lot of my rap, electronica, and heavy metal stuff will do that....
I just threw on "Quincy Jones - Birdland", which has a really solid bassline, and I can feel the bass drum and I'm 15 ft away from the subwoofer
and that makes me very happy!
Am I alone in my bass obsessed nature? Maybe it's because I'm younger? I know my dad likes his music to sound good, but doesn't always appreciate the "interactive" feel of my system
Thoughts?
- D
You are definitely not the only one. There's nothing quite like great bass from a well-designed subwoofer. Until people experience how much better the bass sounds when it's handled by a dedicated device, ignorance is bliss.
Nope, I'm right with you on that one. I had been running the M50s by themselves for about a week or two when I first got them, then put in Sting-Brand New Day, didn't hear the beginning bass note, stopped it, turned on the sub, and haven't looked back.
Yep - I spent way too many years without a sub. Since I hooked up my SVS early this year, I am constantly kicking myself for not getting a sub earlier. This is not simply for having my ears bleed when I play music. The sub adds a texture to everything, most notably movies and it enhances the entire HT experience. What I have learned is that the sub does not need to be overpowering to provide a whole 'nother layer of audio and sensory enjoyment. I will not live without one again.
If I get to the point of having grandchildren, I will help establish their college funds, right AFTER we set up a very robust Axiom + subwoofer fund. Then I can concentrate on getting some new teeth and counting all of my liver spots.
I've got the M22s, so you know I can't live without a sub. But what I really, really like is the "S-Direct" mode on my Marantz (direct source...I don't know what the other manufacturers call theirs). I just wish it didn't bypass the sub when you engage that mode. I was fiddling with it on a few CDs this afternoon, and the difference is pretty dramatic. I understand that the idea is to bypass the distance & level settings and just give the pure signal to the speakers, but it would be much nicer if it could somehow recognize the sub.
Most bookshelves and towers do not reproduce much frequency range below 30hz, I have yet to come across any good sounding towers handle bass down to teens, which is quite essential for HT nowaday. Couple years ago I had the Acoustic Research AR1 running off of the Odyssey Stratos for almost 2 years, the AR1 loaded with side firing 15" active subwoofers powered by built-in 500w Sunfire amps, back then I didn't feel the need for additional sub because they were being use 100% for music, and two 15" were plenty in my living room so I didn't feel the need for an additional sub.
Now with the M22ti, I don't think I can do without the Sub. In my room the M22ti alone can only go down to 50hz, anything below is mute so I'll be missing a whole chunk of stuff between 50 to 10hz, in my case...an additional sub make a complete system.
For HT systems, I can't live without twin subs. For the tube 2 channel (2.1), a single Vance Dickerson Titanic sub is the perfect compliment to a pair of Axiom-like Michaura M66 mini towers or giant bookshelf speakers. These have a similar driver compliment to the Axiom M50s (2x6.5" Axiom type aluminum drivers) and a 3/4" titanium tweeter like the ones used in the old M2s or Merak speakers. I don't know why, but these M66s sound much better than the M50tis I had but sold after listening to the M66s. I think the reason might be the cabinet shape - they are hex shaped, smaller than the M50s, but the mids and highs, to my ears, just sound much nicer. They are only rated down to 45Hz /3db (I think) but throw an absolutely enormous soundstage, image beautifully, and have mids which are the perfect match for a 5 wpc SET tube amp.
I've never had a sub until the 500 and I would have never guessed there was so much more in the lower end of music until getting it.
I've been sicker than a dog since the weekend and the only consolation has been exploring how much more there is to listen to on the music I already own. There really have been alot of surprises, like wow I never new that was there. Its just to cool
So ya I'm also with you on this one, Daphoid, I doubt I'll ever listen with out a sub, but I guess I'll have to wait until I get my M60's to know for sure.
Cheers, Jag
>>I've been sicker than a dog since the weekend and...
You're probably not sick, just having your internal organs shaken and twisted around by the sub LF. Try turning it off for a day and maybe you'll feel better
LOL.
Turning it off for a day
What? Can't hear you...
That'll never happen.
Actually, I think I've discovered an new cure for the common cold...sitting in front of an EP500. 10 minute pulses twice a day and you'll feel better instantly. Those viruses just fall apart; now if only I can get FDA (and Canada's Health Product and Food Branch) approval and we'll all beable to get one of these puppies through our medical insurance.
Anyone up for a "clinical trial"...
Cheers, Jag
I'm already starting to feel that jealous rage when I see Jag's Avatar. People make fun of MY Avatar, but at least MINE doesn't taunt "wouldn't you like some of this?"...
well, seems like the general idea here is, 'sub is better', and i would have to fall in line with that thought process. i had never had a sub til i set up the system i have now, and i am glad i did. in my prior system, i had two giant vega towers, that had 15 inch woofers in them, via 1991. they could kick the low end, but the mids and highs would disappear into the bass. and even though it was LOUD bass, it wasnt controlled, and sounded sloppy.
now, with the M60's and a vega 12 inch sub, the sound is leaps and bounds better. i can obviously hear the mids and highs that i was depraved of before, plus the added gift of a powerful, but more concise bass. granted, the vega sub is still a little boomy, but not at all sloppy like the vega towers. i know the sub is still the weakest link in my system, but, i am content with what i have now, and am on the path for a new one.
now that i have had this set up for a while, i dont reckon i could ever go back to a non-sub system. even in 2.1, it adds a richness and heavy texture that i prefer in my music listening experience.
bigjohn
even in the technical sense of the argument a sub is good. It takes all the power-robbing bass from the mains which leaves more power in the receiver for that thing we all love -- Dynamic headroom! (that is, assuming you can get a well-recorded source...)
I actually turned my HSU VTF-3 Mk2 off last night and set the M60's to large just to see. Wow what a difference. Adding a sub, even for Stereo only is a huge upgrade.
i couldnt live without mine,but,depending on the type of music im listening to,or the recording quality,i can turn them off from time to time,the 80s really sound good all alone on music.even on movies im still suprised with the bass coming out of these things,i think the shape of my listing room might be a factor,its kinda shaped like a vp-150
Yeah I do enjoy music with the subwoofer off (and just the m60's), it's a nice sound....
The subwoofer though, it just gives you so much depth, and that giddy feeling I get when I crank up the tunes and FEEL them
, Doesn't even need to be loud *pats his subwoofer*, even at a comfortable volume, there's still kick in the sub.. I love this damn thing, best $2200CDN I ever spent (I love you SVS!)....
As for movies, sure the 5.nothing is cool sounding, but it's not so much the lower bass notes, just the PRESENCE it gives me and my audience, I LOVE actions movies now even more then I used to, simply because *I* know what rumbling is coming, but a lot of my friends have never experience that, so they have no clue
ehehehehehe. *giggles like a school girl*
I can't wait to my girlfriend comes to visit (she's away at university, just like me), she's an avid movie nut, but I don't think she's ever experienced surround sound quite like this
Darn it, if it wasn't almost 11PM (parents are asleep) and if I didn't have a big test tomorrow, AND if I wasn't tired...*sigh*.... this weekend, this weekend...
- D
Daphoid,
I have asked myself this many times and often wonder if other people feel the same! I am addicted to bass and the stuff I like (electronica, industrial, rock with heavy basslines like Cake) are all bass-heavy.
When i first tried out the m60s at a volunteer's place, I fell in love with how they sound with a subwoofer. I can't imagine how anybody would want to listen to music WITHOUT it!
That said, I've had my M60s for more than 6 months and still can't bring myself to come up with the moolah for a decent sub to REALLY feed my bass addiction. So till then, I'm just grinning and bearing it...
On that note, does anyone have any opinions about whats the cheapest sub I can get that would go well with the M60s?
If there's a CompUSA near you, there was a killer deal a couple of weeks ago on HSU STF-2s for ~$200. There may still be some available. Also, PM me if you're interested in a Boston Cherry Axiom EP175.
Or a Velodyne CHT10.
Got one just sittin around.
I would rather not go without mine.I have the 80s with a Hsu Stf-3.Before this I had dual Hsu Vtf-2s.The Stf-3 to me seems more powerful than the dual Vtf-2s,and a lot easier to calibrate into my stereo set up.
I kept 1 of the Vft-2s for H/T use with the Hsu VT-12 system.I replaced a Wharfedale powercube 12a with one of the Hsus and that was a major upgrade.
Hey Dmn23,
I called a bunch of COMPUSAs in my area, unfortunately, all the STF-2s are gone. Not surprisingly.
So I'm still in a market for a sub for myself, probably as my own xmas present this year.
My budget is around USD 200-300 for a good musical 10" sub for 80 percent music 20 percent movies.
My M60s are in Boston Cherries. Are you selling your EP175?
cheers,
-AT
rotipom
I have a spare sub just sitting around, that I'm selling at reasonable price.
P.M. me if your interested.
rotipom,
Try not to get the cheapest one as you'll find yourself wanting to upgrade before long, most of those cheap subs from BestBuy or CircuitCity are boomy and far from being musical, wait for a little while till you saved up enough money then get a good one, such as the SVS PB10 for around $420. If you have to have a sub now, and $200~300 for a musical sub, you can either get used one from audiogon, or jump on the PartsExpress's sealed 10" Titanic MKIII.