they seem to be getting a fair bit of flack... i have been using sony cd3000's through a perreaux shx-1 from a sony ce775 for the last 8 months if that matters. i loved them but now i want speakers. i really am on a budget, i sorta wanted to spend under 700 bux it looks like it will be about 780 for the m40's. thats alright with me. i don't like all this talk about needing to get a sub for the m22's. the sound im looking for is smooth, detailed, warm, and most importantly will draw me into the music. i loved my cd3000's even though they were a TINY bit bright. i listen to lots of stuff, some rock like the smashing pumpkins, some stuff like zero 7 and the postal service, ani difranco and tegan and sara, death cab for cutie, norah jones, sarah mclachlan... so yeah lots of different stuff. what will be the best way to immerse me in all this music? also, my room is set up, that the foot of the bed is about a meter from the wall in front of it, and the top of the bed is against the other wall. and i want the speakers on either side of my bed. im pretty sure i want the m40's because i don't want to go through all of that sub bs and speaker stands. that will jack up the price of them. there is not a chance in hell you can convince me to go anywhere higher than the m40. i can probably get a better deal on something like the energy c5's but people don't really like those. how about the paradigm esprit? thanks for your help.
EDIT: btw im my setup will be Sony CE775 (i could mod it later if i wanted)>Glass Toslink>Panasonic SA-XR50 (you may have heard about these digital amps, these components are not going anywhere btw)>basic wires (for now)>speakers, w/e i get...
welcome Muffinman,
if you check at the
Factory Outlet, they have bargains on speakers with very slight cosmetic blemishes. Most outlet buyers haven't been able to find a single thing wrong with their speakers (including myself). That'll save you some money.
I'm not sure where you are located, but even in Canadian $$$, a pair of M40tis are only $680, $612 from the F.O.
I have not actually read any criticism of the M40s anywhere, including on this site. The worst sentiment I have heard is that in an increasingly Home Theater obsessed world the M40s are overlooked since they are ideal music speakers but **if you already have a sub for HT** don't offer anything more than the bookshelf speakers.
For a music system IMO it's a totally different story. I still prefer full-range speakers and still have not been able to get exactly the same sound from a bookshelf+sub combination. I ended up buying M60s for music because (a) I had the money at the time, (b) I hadn't figured out where the M40s fit, but then I ended up finding the M60s were too big for the room where I wanted the music system anyways. M40s would have been perfect for me.
For a music system I would go with the M40s and never look back. My M2s sound great for jazz but I really miss the bass when playing certain rock bands. If you're going to be watching more movies then IMO a good sub is a must-have, and you'll end up with bookshelf speakers because you spent your money on the sub.
I think you would be really happy with the m40s. Only caution is that if they're anything like the other Axiom mains I own they are going to want to be a foot or so from the back wall or they can sound a bit boomy; make sure you have space. The M40s are much less deep than the M60s so this shouldn't be a problem.
I own a pair of M40's and absolutely love them!! They can get down low enough for most rock music without a sub. The midrange is laid back (being a simple 2-way), but that's the way I like it.
I also got mine from the FO, and cannot find a blemish on them. I think the logo badge is slightly askew (depending on which way I tilt my head!), but no marks or scratches.
You won't be disappointed.
wow thanks for the tip on the outlet thing! are they still covered under the 30 day tryout? is there any warrenty on these products?
EDIT: i meant 780 after the 15% sales tax :-/
Same warranty, same guarantee, and no difference technically. Axiom's QC dept is very stiff, but most people have yet to find any blemishes or nicks.
My QS8s showed up this week from the factory outlet. There was a thumbnail-type mark in the vinyl on one edge of the speaker enclosure, perhaps 1/8" or less. I believe warranty, return policy etc... are all identical to normal purchases.
Your music collection sounds eerily similar to mine. I can only conclude that you broke into my house at some point, and copied all of my CD's. I don't know where the zero 7 came from though - maybe you broke into my neighbour's house too?
obviously, thats what i did, person i don't know.
when you guys say laid back midrange... what does that mean? i don't know if you know what the sennheiser hd580s are, but i hated them, and everyone describes them as laid back. they couldn't do anything right. playing a distorted guitar through them was horrible. just horrible
they couldn't rock, they had not visceral bass slam at all... but yeah, so what do you mean by laid back? are they quick enough to really rock out? but be really smooth enough to relax you? would any users of them say that they involve you with the music? like really draw you in? that was my biggest concern with the senns, i just felt completely disconnected with the music. honestly im sure im in for a big shock when i get these because i will be so happy with them
but ive never really used good speakers before... except a $80k system in a little hi-fi store...
i don't think these will exactly hold up
so no one has opinions on paradigms or energies in the same range?
I just don't think many of us have heard the M40s. I've got the M50s, which are not exactly what I would call laid back; they're accurate, they've got plenty of bass, and they sound good. I imagine that the M40s have a little less bass (1 less woofer'll do that to you, plus smaller cabinet) and they may have a more rolled off treble, but I really don't know.
Some times you guy's make me feel old when you talk about the music you listen to:)
I usrd to cut thorns off a tree in the back yard by the barn to get needles to be able to listen to my 78s. (true) one of my favorite cds' is "Caruso sings Verdi" (also true)
Feel younger now?
Rich.
HEY RAY! Sounds like we got another "old" guy to join us in the "gray" posse.
I still have some 78s. Course I got nothin' to play them on, but I STILL GOT 'EM.
Yup, I'm in the same boat, got the 78s but nothing to play them on either!
One batch is in an original "Record Album" A booklike case with seperate folders for each 78 record and a listing page that itemized each entry in an Album Form. I wonder how many of these kids on this forum remember those?
Of course, used to play them using a TUBE AMP, but then again, didn't everybody? (that's all we had, after all)
Maybe that's why I prefer a warm speaker, reminds me of the good ol tube days. lol
I guess the term "laid back" means different things to different people. I used to own a set of Sony 3-way towers. To me, they were very heavy in the mid-range...very unnatural. The highs were also not very clear...they seemed to strain to reproduce the sound. They were "intense" sounding...to me. They tried too hard, and came up short.
So when I say my M40's are "laid back", I mean that they reproduce the sound effortlessly. Clean, clear and concise. They don't seem to boost the sound spectrum at any point.
That said, they are a 2-way design, which leads me to believe that the mid-range is not as apparent as the other 3-way Axioms. In that way, I believe they are "laid back"...less "in-your-face". Again, that is just my opinion.
I'll have to be honest, the M40's were a BIG surprise. The bass is extremely smooth, although not super-deep. But certainly deep enough for most rock music. (You'll want a nice sub for movies)
I've also heard Paradigms and PSB (only heard Energy's in stores). Both really good speakers. It was a toss-up between the 3 brands. All 3 had similar stats, all had good reviews. But I choose Axiom, and am not disappointed in the least.
Hmmmm..... 78s.
You know Jack, I believe my grandmother told me stories about those.
To me, "laid-back" has a very simplistic connotation, I look at it as "where" does the major component of the material seem to be coming from. Is the lead singer between me and the plane of the speakers? That's foreward. If I feel I'm on stage with the singer, that's foreward. If, like with my M3s, I find the singer is at the plane of my speakers, I think of that as neutral. If the speakers give me the impression that I'm in the back row of a theater or concert, that's laid-back.
That's my interpretation, anyway.
Rich.
Hey, Alou.
Did you notice that the "Headlines" on the new Axiom "Home Page" is a quote from the M40 review?
Cool, huh?
Rich.
Yeah, very cool. I always laughed at that quote. I mean...c'mon..."shockingly"?...they're good, maybe even great, but "shockingly"?
120 volts? Yes. Electric eels? Yes. Tazers? Definitely. M40's? Dude, they're only speakers. (maybe he had his tongue on the binding posts?)
And I can also understand your definition of "laid back". Maybe that's part of what I "feel" when listening to music. But certainly the lack of a dedicated mid-range would contribute to both of our definitions.
Alright!like your def. of "shockingly" (that could start a new post all on it's own)!!
As far as the term "laid-back" is concerned, I don't have many warm feelings for that one as a standard way of describing a speaker. Seems to me that there is no easy way to describe a Neither foreward nor laid back speaker. I used the term "Neutral" but I think that's more often used to describe tonality.
My M3s position the main image right at the plane of the speakers-in this room as well as in my last room-so, are they foreward or laid-back? I dunno. They ain't foreward and although they've been described here as laid-back, they ain't that either. (I've heard, in other places, "relaxed" or "easy-going, and that may be a bit closer to what "I" think I hear, certainly not "laid-back")
I think what we need is some kind of a standard definition as to variations in the level of either "foreward" or "laid-back"
I'm sure that no one would argue that an M40 is more laid back than an M60 or that an M60 is more foreward than an M40, but by "how much" which one is closer to the ideal? (not the ideal speaker, but as relates to the degree of foreward or back) Anyone?
and Yup, Alan had a good comment a few weeks ago-perhaps you read it too-about the more rapid fall off of the 6.5 woof vs the 5.25 that contributes to a reduction in the strength of the first reflections in the upper mids that causes a loss of the upper mid sonic content at the normal listening position.(or something like that) But yeah, I'm bettin' too that it must add to the "laid-back" nature of the 6.5 speakers.-however we want to define "laid-back" and to what degree.
Rich.
welp, im just about to order my m40's through the FO, i hope i love them
figures that the cherry ones were the only ones with a 3 week wait
We'll never be able to define the term here...it's hard enough to get people to agree the correct break-in period for Monster speaker wire!! (It's a "shockingly" long time!)
In reply to:
(It's a "shockingly" long time!)
Mot to be disagreeable, but it was a shockingly short break in time for my cousin's best friend's girlfriend's father's Monster cables.
It seems that "shockingly" is the word of the day at the moment, So...
Hopefully three weeks won't be a "shockingly" long time to wait and that the wait will be worth it. You are joining a fairly small but happy group with a long(well, from the turn of the century, anyway)history. I've been reading these posts for almost that long, and I can't recall anyone who has bought the M40s who wasen't happy with them.
At any rate, welcome to the Axiom family!
Rich.
Sigh... I really want some M40s. I think I would like them a lot. I guess the next step for me is to go 7.1, move the M2s down to the basement as rears, and get some M40s for the bedroom. Sigh... not a chance in the near future anyways.
I wish every purchase didn't flow so smoothly into another purchase
Muffinman, enjoy your new speakers. Let us know how you like them !!
Yup, lots of activity on the "pleasant" side this week, seems the 6.5"group is getting some of the credit they deserve; again.
Just gotta keep that upgrade bug at bay til the right time,huh?
Sez the guy who's going to get M60s...
Aaah...Sez the guy who realized just how much he likes his M3s cuz he never heard a bad sound from them, ever, in quite a few years, from the one who really, really likes a slightly warm, more nostalgic "Tube" sound.(I mentioned that yesterday in this very thread) Also sez the guy who likes the presentation of the M3s in the area of "Foreward" or "Laid-back" who prefers them "Right In The Middle" The guy who is not necessarily Afraid of "Foreward" but just prefers "Middle"
In no way could I even consider disliking the M60s, they have way too much going for them. It's kinda like Viper vs Voyager, Vette vs Impalla, Ford GT vs Taraus, Yadda Yadda Yadda, like the mini van of speakers, (OK, bad examples-forget it) Hey, performance is cool! Right!? Yeah! it is!!
I've delayed pulling the trigger on this order for quite a few days while hashing over the pros and cons of both styles of speakers-it ain't been easy, not at all.
What may have setteled it was the realization of just how happy I've been with my M3s. I've had speakers in the past that I've been very fond of for a few weeks or so, but then
something small, not even noticable at first would start to get annoying, and the Honeymoon is over. I am of the impression that the M50s are very much like the M3-the only complaint I recall hearing about the M50 is that it dosen't sound enough like the M60.
What I "think" I need in my house, right now, is a bigger M3! Not as warm as an M40, not as cool as an M60. As best as I can tell right now, it seems to be the M50. I do know one thing, no more "Serious" M50 Posse stuff, the M60 guys got something going too good to make fun of. (Well, maybe a little "Good Natured" kiddin', but not more than that)
So I got one more day to go over all the thisses and thatsis of one vs the other and pull the trigger monday morning. I plan to live with these speakers for the rest of whatever, so gotta get it right. (although I think I can send them back-free shipping-towards a pair of M60s if they don't work out, Safety-net!!)
Is nothing ever easy?
"Rich,
I knew someone would immediately post (LOL!) about the M3ti, M40s and M50s. Lots of guys (and a few gals) really love the M3ti's and M50s and they are very nice speakers. And they are no upgrades or changes planned for them, either.
Even the M40 has its fans.
Regards,
Alan Lofft
Axiom Resident Expert"
This has me scared. Should i REALLY be spending more money here? Is the upgrade enough that I should be getting better than the m40's? i think i might wait till i get them and then check out some paradigms. the paradigms have a different sound sig right? if i were going to look into paradigms, which ones would i look at? is there anything else that i could demo in toronto that i should look into if the m40's aren't exactly what im looking for?
uh-oh! shoulda taken that "mini van of speakers" outta there. That'sa oops.
Rich.
>>This has me scared. Should i REALLY be spending more money here?
Don't be worrying. You're looking for music speakers, right ?
The problem is that Home Theater now accounts for something like 90% of all speaker sales (from a couple of audio shops I frequent) and the M40s are one of the few models in the Axiom line which don't make a lot of sense for a pure HT (with a sub) system. M40s are like M3s except they also give nice extended bass without a sub -- but if you already HAVE a sub and are listening primarily to movies then M40s don't give you much more than M3s. M50s and up have a place because they will play louder and fill larger rooms than M3s/M22s/M40s.
This board is a pretty good mix of music people and HT people so the M40 is better understood here. It's a great music speaker in a world that mostly buys HT systems.
>>What I "think" I need in my house, right now, is a bigger M3! Not as warm as an M40, not as cool as an M60. As best as I can tell right now, it seems to be the M50. I do know one thing, no more "Serious" M50 Posse stuff, the M60 guys got something going too good to make fun of. (Well, maybe a little "Good Natured" kiddin', but not more than that)
I think your logic is correct. I really wish I had the $$ to pick up some 40s or 50s or had someone around here with a pair I could hear to be 100% sure but everything seems to indicate that 50s are the speakers for you.
Alan was responding to my concerns in his remarks. I was of the impression that there had been some changes to cross-over networks, or whatever, to make the M60s better than they had been, say, a year or so ago. He basically stated that none of the speakers had been changed in some time, and that no changes were planned. Alans' comments and those of numerous M60 owners have convinced me that the M60 are fine speakers and are perfect for those who prefer a more high performance speaker design.
The fact also stands that there are a lot of folks who appreciate a more "Pleasant" type of presentation-and so it appears, myself included,I really like my M3s, and have for a goodly number of years.
That leads one to the M40/M50 style. And they have a lot of happy followers, too. The M40s appear warm, the 50s kinda neutral, and the 60s cool, cool!?
Anyway, that's what Alans' statement was all about-No Changes Made.
Rich.
could the 40's be considered slow or even... boomy :O :O :O neutrality is always good... but sometimes the search for neutral stuff takes away from how they sound musically... i guess... anyway im being random. but is the jump to the 50's worth the extra money? it wouldn't be easy (at all) but i could swing it... i plan on building a low priced 5/6.1 system around these things, but the what im lookinf for real quality in is music.
Yup, I'm beginning to think I agree with me too. (HUH?)
Wow, but it's been a long haul getting here. I'd been strongly leaning towards the M50 for quite a while(leaning tower?) Maybe even Pisa'd off a few folks along the way. But I believe I'll be making the right purchase Monday morn.
I know what you mean about listening to a pair first, I'd have loved to do that, but my listening area is so weird that I don't know if someone elses room would have been comparable. However, if the 50s sound at least close to the 3s, they should be OK.
The 3s are, after all, a part of the family; speakers for life I believe they'd be called.
Now, if the 50s can command such a position...
Rich.
I haven't seen any good "40 vs. 50" comparisons so it's hard to be sure, but based on what I have seen I would *not* expect the 40s to be at all boomy or slow. If you look at the frequency response curve from Soundstage the 40 kind of rolls off a bit in the bass, definitely doesn't have that "big peak at the cabinet/port resonance frequency" kind of curve. I think the biggest difference between 40 and 50 is that the 50s can play louder... sometimes a cigar is just a cigar
There's actually a 40 vs 50 vs 80 comparison running around somewhere out there. I've lost track of it, but it's a good read.
Gads, I'm responding to lots of stuff at once-what a trip!!
Well, mr.T Muffinman, may I introduce you to the M50: it just might be the "One speaker for Everyman"(Everyperson?)
While I haven't heard of anyone not liking the M40, pretty much the same has been said about the M50. Not too warm, not too cool, maybe "just right?"
Might just be a consideration? (I'm relying only on my association with the M3 as a real family member and the hope that the M50 will sound close enough the same, to fit in just as well)
I'll find out in a few days, as I'm pretty sure that I'll be ordering my M50s come Monday morning.
Anyway, maybe the M50s should recieve some consideration. Just a thought.
This ain't easy, is it?
Rich.
Hi there, a response to the difference between the 40 and 50; Alan had made a comment about a year ago on that, and he stated that "The M50ti has quite a bit more clarity and detail than the M40, but not quite as much as the M60ti." At some point after that the advertising comments that I believe you are refering to, had been changed to reflect a differing company philosophy.
Just an observation. May be flawed. Maybe not.
Rich.
No, No, No 40, 50 80 comparison, no not now, this is a BAD time to add new ingredients to the mix, A BAAAD TIME!!!
Just saying... it's a comparison that includes the 40s and the 50s. As I recall, the 50s come out rather well, but I could be wrong.
>>Alan had made a comment about a year ago on that, and he stated that "The M50ti has quite a bit more clarity and detail than the M40, but not quite as much as the M60ti."
Interesting. I think I remember seeing that comment as well... just wasn't sure where I saw it.
OK, so it's one of these "I want the clarity" "You can't handle the clarity" issues with the M50 kind of in the middle. Hmmm...
Naw, you're right, you're right; the M50s came out well, yeah, that's right, they came out well.
The M50s in the middle? GREAT, just where I WANT them to be. Not too warm not too cool, not too foreward not too laid back, right in the middle! (Am I getting a little over-the-top here again?)
Yup.
In the middle's good.
Just order the damn speakers and stop teasing everyone.
... now i am wanting the m50's. ill try to look up that review of them all...
Ordering Axioms, ah, now that was never a question.
Yup. I keep misremembering that as a positive for the M50s, but I found that when I was thinking about the 40s. Oops. Oh well, I still love my 50s.
^^ DAMN YOU
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=ST&Number=3609&Search=true&Forum=ST&Words=comparison&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=23&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=3609
and i had to go look for it
im sold on the m40's
do you guys think my panny xr50 will do a good job with these speakers? my buddy sold his 2500 dollar tube amp for a xr10 and loved the xr10. so i think i should be good... hopefully everything will work out. anyone know anything about the ce775? will modding it make a big difference in sound?
That comparo could be a goodie at that-wonder if it may be on the Spot or AVS? I haven't caught them in the last few days so could have missed it.
I'll have to admit to being a little nervous getting the M50s without having heard them, I bought the M3s the same way, but in those days the M3 was the absolute darling of the Axiom line with a dozen or so "professional" reviews going on and raving about them almost to the point of being a turn-off. The worst comment I read about them was one writter found them to be a bit "bright". The consumer reviews were just as glowing. With such unanimous support, how could someone be afraid to make a purchase?(Plus they were only $275USD in those days) It was a real no-brainer. If the M50s sound "almost" as good as the M3s I'll be happy, if they sound better...
Just to be safe, give Axiom a call -- "I have M3s, I really like them, moved into a bigger room etc...". I'm pretty sure they'll say "50s" but never hurts to get another opinion.
oh, there it is, yeah, I remember it now. Good review for the M40 I remember reading it back then, and will sure re-read it again now, soon's I get the last of the grandkids to bed.
I'll have to pop that question first thing Monday Morning since I'll be on the phone with them anyway, good point.
are there any good retail stores in toronto that i could go to and get a good price for the m40's? like the same price as the FO? i don't really feel like waiting 3 weeks
There is at least one dealer out out in the west end of Toronto -- don't remember the name but will try to find it. I haven't been out there (heck, I probably own as many different Axiom products as the dealer
) so don't know how much room they have on prices.