3ti's in a bookcase

Posted by: oz350z

3ti's in a bookcase - 10/28/05 09:35 PM

I have a question regarding the 3 tiís. I need a pair of speakers to use in an actual bookshelf situation in my office. I know these are called bookshelf speakers but the fact that they are rear ported has me concerned. I have heard some of you say that they are better suited to speaker stands. I could use stands but for room esthetics and to prevent clutter I would prefer to sit them on the shelf with books and other brik a brac. The bookshelf is solid wood and has a back. Will the rear port create too much boom and sound cavernous? What do you guys think? Anybody using them this way?
Thanks
oz

Posted by: Ken.C

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/28/05 09:37 PM

I think people generally recommend not doing this. I agree with you; it would be asthetically pleasing. How far forward would you be able to put them on the shelf? How much space behind them would there be?
Posted by: bridgman

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/28/05 09:49 PM

As long as you have a few inches behind the speakers and a way for the bass to "get out" (ie space between the top of the speaker and the next shelf, or beside the speakers etc...) the rear porting shouldn't be an issue.

The big issue with putting bookshelf speakers on a real bookshelf is the "boxy" sound you can get, basically an emphasis at a frequency determined by the space between shelves, across the shelf, between back of speaker and back wall of shelves, etc. All of these frequencies are much higher than anything that comes out of the port, eg. 550 Hz if you have 12" between shelves. Sort of an "awww" resonance.

I always had good results with speakers on shelves myself. I put the speakers on high shelves so there wasn't much stuff piled around them, turned the speakers upside down to keep the tweeter close to ear level, and used shelves with open sides and back wherever possible. Also made sure that the front of the speaker was at least 1/2" in front of the shelf; more if I could get away with it.

If you put the speakers in a shelving arrangement that is essentially a box, they're probably gonna sound boxy
Posted by: oz350z

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/28/05 10:43 PM

Hmmm... I was afraid that might be the case. I'll have to take some measurements. I wonder if going with a non ported would be better. Something like the Epos3 or the Mission? Actually I'm sure if either of those are ported or not?
oz
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/28/05 11:34 PM

Yeah, but like Bridgeman says, it's not the porting that's the problem, it's the cabinet in a cabinet effect.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/28/05 11:36 PM

Oz, I agree with John B's comments; as long as at least a few inches of "breathing" room are left for the port, that in itself wouldn't be a problem, but the placement in a bookcase would raise other problems regardless of whether the speakers were back ported, front ported or sealed.

Beat me to it Ken; great minds....can't remember the rest.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/29/05 04:00 AM

I should mention that it's possible to worry too much about this. WIll speakers in the bookshelf you are describing sound as good as they would on stands ? Nope. Will they still sound "mighty fine" ? Probably...

I don't suppose you could post a picture of the actual bookshelf ? That makes a lot of difference...
Posted by: Ajax

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/29/05 10:46 AM

In reply to:

Beat me to it Ken; great minds....can't remember the rest.


I think it's "great minds...................root for Ohio State," or something like that.
Posted by: pmbuko

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/30/05 01:26 AM

great minds link athike?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/30/05 01:23 AM

We used hut, Peter.
Posted by: oz350z

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/30/05 06:33 AM

BOT
I appreciate all the feedback guys even the asides. Of couse in this house we are Bulldog fans. It was a tough loss to the Gators yesterday.

If that is the case with Axioms would any of you know of a company that makes bookshelf speakers that are actually designed for the purpose?
thanks
oz

Posted by: Ajax

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/30/05 10:05 AM

Just to explain my "aside": Both JohnK and I are Browns fans (no easy task these days), though he is more restrained about it than I. However, I am an Ohio State alumnus (I actually graduated from Kent State), and John, I believe, is (oh the ignominy) a Michigan alumnus. At least I seem to remember a post where he uttered the hated () "Go Blue." So, my reference to Ohio State in my previous post was meant as a good natured dig at John's shameful affiliation. Hopefully, someone else will.

(The previous was all delivered with tongue firmly planted in cheek. I was born in Michigan, performed in clubs around the Michigan campus, and consider the state my second home. Yes U of M is the team we love to hate, but I have profound respect for the university and the team. The pattern in recent years seems to be that whichever team is doing better has their ambitions spoiled by the other. We did it to them last year, so they'll probably do it to us this year. Dirty %$%#*&*(())#$!!!!!! )

Sorry about Georgia, Oz. I thought Texas and UCLA were gonna get dumped from the ranks of the undefeated as well, but they both rallied.

Today I gotta watch my beloved Browns lose to the only winless team in the league. Oh the shame of it!

In an attempt to legitimize (and that's really stretching it) this blatantly off topic post - I know of no manufacturers who make a bookshelf speaker specifically designed to fit into an enclosed area.
Posted by: Wid

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/30/05 10:16 AM

Just a thought here, what about getting the new W3 and building them into the bookshelf.I could see that being a workable solution..................no ?
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/30/05 10:22 AM

Oz, I think speakers with front ports are a little less placement sensitive than rear ported ones. I have some Energy C2s with front ports that I have used on bookshelves and stands with little difference in sound. Of course it has been years since I've done any critical listening to these guys (currently being used as my rears), but they seem very room friendly.
Posted by: oz350z

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/30/05 09:24 PM

Jack
No need to legitimize here. As a matter of fact I apppreciate the background info. Still being a newb here I don't know as much about you guys as some of you seem to know about each other. Perhaps in time. Actually it is the threads that kind of mutate and take a life of their own, so to speak, that I like the best. That's where I get to learn a little more about the people here. You mentioned a few times that you were a musician and here in this thread made comments of playing club dates. What instrument did / do you play and what type of music were you playing when you were in the gigging?
Posted by: oz350z

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/30/05 09:46 PM

Rick
Actually that would be a great idea. I think it would be a hard sell to the wife though. Number one I didn't want to spend that much on the speakers. These are intended to be an upgrade to the computer speakers. I want to get rid of the little mini's and hook my sound card up to a cheap amp. That way I could have half way decent sound. I would like to listen to Sirius satellite streams while I'm on the computer. Also the "bookcase" as I'm calling it is one of those full wall systems for the office. A center piece that is a desk with hutch flanked on either side with conceald horizontal file cabinets with lighted bookcase topppers for each. Very nice and very expensive. Now I could probably do a reasonable job of modifying the pieces but I don't think my wife would like the idea. She's being pretty goood about my wanting these so soon after getting the 60's and I don't want to press my luck. I guess I should have mentioned that I don't need reference quality sound here I would just like something a little nicer that the cheapo computer speakers.
You gots me thinking now though.
oz
Posted by: Ajax

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/30/05 10:45 PM

Played guitar, but was primarily a vocalist. As far as type of music, you name it, we've played it. Started in the folk craze of the early 60s.



Proceeded through folk rock, to country rock, to blues rock, to rock, back to acoustic rock, and finished doing standards out of the 30s, 40s and 50s.



The fellow with the banjo in the first photo, is the same one on the left in The Corsairs. I'm in glasses in both photos.


Posted by: bray

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/30/05 10:48 PM

Do you still have the Martin?

Posted by: Ajax

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/30/05 10:57 PM

Absolutely!

The D-28 is one of the last ones made from Brazilian rosewood, circa 1964. The D12-20 is one of the first ones manufactured, circa 1965.


Posted by: RickF

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/30/05 11:03 PM

That is really cool Jack, thanks for sharing the pictures!
Posted by: bray

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/30/05 11:06 PM

Thats great Jack. Thanks for sharing.
You own a classic guitar thats my age.

Posted by: Ajax

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/30/05 11:18 PM

You're both welcome. I can't play them anymore (arthritis), but I love my Martins.

Though competent, I was never a very successful musician. I was, however, lucky enough to spend my life doing something that did no harm, and gave some people a lot of pleasure (unless, of course, they were music lovers )
Posted by: craigsub

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/30/05 11:23 PM

Jack - GREAT stuff. I cannot wait to show Susan those pics.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/30/05 11:35 PM

When I look at the New Community Singers photos, I experience an avalanche of thoughts.

1. Was I EVER really that young?
2. I was much nicer looking than I thought at the time (not wickedly handsome or anything, just nicer looking than I thought.) Had I realized this, I would've been much bolder with women.
3. We were ALL nicer looking than I remember, especially those lovely young women. I'm still in touch with them both.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/30/05 11:47 PM

Jack, although(for fairly obvious reasons to avoid derision)I don't often mention it on the board, I am by no means "restrained" in my enthusiasm for the Browns. After today's game I briefly contemplated falling on my sword, but then the glorious memory of yesterday's Wolverine victory(right; U.of M. Law)came close to compensating for today's anguish.

We can also agree that no design factors can compensate adequately for placing a speaker in an enclosure, although the sound will still be acceptable if this is unavoidable.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/31/05 12:09 AM

You mean you DIDN'T fall on your sword? What kind of a Browns fan are you? I'm still bleeding. OK, I didn't actually FALL on my sword, I kinda took a vicious swing at my neck with it. Well, not exactly a vicious swing, I kinda ran my thumb along the blade. OK, it wasn't actually a sword, it was an envelope I was opening. Man these paper cuts hurt!
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/31/05 07:12 AM

Jack-
As others have said, thanks for sharing!
In reply to:

Had I realized this, I would've been much bolder with women.



Don't we all wish we could go back to "then" with the confidence and self-assurance that we have now!!??!! I know that my high school and college years would have been vastly different!
Posted by: oz350z

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/31/05 12:55 PM

Sean
Thanks! I think you may be right about the front ported verses the rear. I have also heard some good things about the Energy speakers. I'll have to look into some front port models.
oz
Posted by: oz350z

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/31/05 01:08 PM

Oh my! I'm so glad I went fishing for more information. These pictures are great. Ya'll look like the New Christy Minstrels. I also love the second shot with the mustachios. Very nice touch!

The guitars are beauties. No I didn't skip right over the girls in the picture. I happen to like the brunette by the way. But I more interested in the guitars.
My brother just recently bought a Martin six string. It looks very much like yours. Of course he doesn't cut as striking a pose as you do standing behind his.
This is the kind of stuff I meant when I said I love when a thread goes OT
Great Stuff! thanks
oz

Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/31/05 01:34 PM

In reply to:

I kinda took a vicious swing at my neck with it




...which fell harmlessly incomplete

I feel for Browns fans and for Dilfer. He is one of the truly "good guys" in the NFL, and to see him struggle so much lately is painful. I'd have liked him to succeed.

Great pictures, Jack. Lovely guitars. Coincidentally, we watched an episode of John Ratzenberger's "Made in America" last night that featured the CF Martin Guitar Company, est. 1833. It was hopelessly light in detail, but we all still learned something. I love that show.

I mentioned it before, but I am in awe of instrument builders. Magic.
Posted by: St_PatGuy

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 10/31/05 09:05 PM

Oz, Energy did something right with their two way speakers in the C series. I didn't care for the three ways at all. Different crossover and different sound. Those C2s were my first step into major speakers and enjoyed them for years. Nice balanced sound. At their modest price point they handle themselves very well against other speakers. I wonder why speaker manufacturer's don't offer more front ported designs? Anyone know why?
Posted by: dkfan

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/05/05 08:32 PM

Hey Jack!
I know this is off-topic, but WTH, it is very entertaining to read your posts, of-course informative too, at the end of it! How bout posting your current pic just to see how the classic one-off model as fared !
Posted by: Ajax

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/05/05 09:55 PM

Thank you for the kind words regarding my posts.

I see! You wish to see what the ravages of age have done to me, huh. Well, It's pretty ugly. Just remember! You too, will, some day, be 60. And It's going to happen much quicker than you think. So, keep in mind, it's not wise to make fun of your own future.




Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 12:04 AM

Lookin' good, my friend.

We should all be so lucky.
Posted by: RickF

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 12:56 AM

Thanks for sharing the picture Jack, the ladies are absolutely lovely and you are looking mighty handsome!
Posted by: Ajax

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 01:27 AM

Two dear friends from my high school days. They were two classes behind me. They're darn lovely ladies for pushing 59. Interestingly, remember the brunette in the photo of the NC Singers a few pages back, who several fellows here found attractive? Well the blond in the photo above is the same person 40 years later.
Posted by: RickF

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 01:53 AM

In reply to:

Interestingly, remember the brunette in the photo of the NC Singers a few pages back, who several fellows here found attractive?




Jack, you can now 'officially' add me to that list! Yes indeedy both of these ladies are absolutely lovely. I must admit though, I was certainly fooled...I thought the blond lady in the NC photo was the blond lady in the recent photo.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 02:30 AM

The blond lady in the NC Singers photo (Mirabai) is now the wife of famed jazz/Classical Clarinetist Eddie Daniels. The brunette in the NC Singers (the blond above) is my friend Donna. The brunette in the photo above, is my dear friend Lynnie, who is a flight attendant for Southwest.
Posted by: oz350z

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 07:20 AM

In reply to:

I see! You wish to see what the ravages of age have done to me, huh. Well, It's pretty ugly.



Once again, Jack you are correct.

Just teasing you old man, you look terrific.
Oh and tell Lynnie sne has a fan in Atlanta. Liked her as a Brunette and still like her as a blonde. Your just a lucky so and so.
oz


Posted by: RickF

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 07:28 AM

In reply to:

Your just a lucky so and so.
oz




Yea, if hitting the big 6-0 means having a couple nice looking women hanging all over you....I can't wait. Only 12 more years!
Posted by: Ajax

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 08:45 AM

In reply to:

Once again, Jack you are correct.


I know! I know! It's depressing. Who the hell IS that old guy. It surely isn't me. I'm the guy with the guitar in the first photo.

In reply to:

Oh and tell Lynnie sne has a fan in Atlanta. Liked her as a Brunette and still like her as a blonde.


OK, Now I'm confused.

New Community Singers photo:
Blond = Mirabai (nee Deborah)
Brunette = Donna

Old Goat photo :
Brunette = Lynnie
Blond = Donna

Ergo, Donna is the brunette in first photo, but has morphed into the blond in the second. And Oz, She's available!

In reply to:

Your just a lucky so and so.
oz


Absolutely true, Oz. Good friends are worth their weight in gold. Good OLD friends are priceless and irreplaceable. Good old friends that look THAT good? Well..................fugedaboudit!

Posted by: Ajax

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 09:02 AM

Actually, here is the photo I should've posted. I guess I was just showing off with my two lovely friends.

On the left, our own RAY!
Then Mark Schifter of Rocket
Himself
And, the handsome guy on the right is everybody's Craigsub


Posted by: oz350z

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 11:37 AM

In reply to:

Ergo, Donna is the brunette in first photo, but has morphed into the blond in the second. And Oz, She's available!



Jack
Thanks for clearing that up! "A rose by any other name" oops don't go there. She's available, I'm not. File under fantasy!


Posted by: RickF

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 11:43 AM

I wonder if she goes for younger, married... uh, nevermind.


Posted by: F107plus5

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 02:23 PM

Wow!!!.....this thread is a possitive gem!!!(A string of gems?)Never again will I look in my mind upon everybody in this website as a generic 30 something!!

Y'all; at least those of you pictured in this thread, are just like me!!!(except perhaps not all of you have managed to knock out a front tooth while helping a daughter work on her brakes and is now sporting a big white mustache to hide that fact)but now the "Grey Posse" has a face!!!

This is great Jack!!!

Thanks for posting the photos
Rich.
Posted by: oz350z

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 03:32 PM

Carefull Jack, you might put the cabash on this thread with that last one. As far as your lovely friends go... show em of, show em off. No offense Craig and Ray. On second thought strike this, the women who read these forums may want some eye candy as well.
oz

Posted by: Ajax

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 03:40 PM

In reply to:

Never again will I look in my mind upon everybody in this website as a generic 30 something!!


HEY! Are you saying I don't look 30?
Posted by: F107plus5

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 03:51 PM

Nope, not at all...really, uh...meant to say......uh,

...closer to My age,...uh...'bout 42?
Posted by: oz350z

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 04:03 PM

Wait a minute! Wait a minute. This thread is about speakers.
Does anybody know if the 3ti's will look good in a bookshelf wall unit?

I mean "sound" good. My mind is still back on the Donna thing.
Jack, you have totally hi"jack"ed this thread. [smile} i mean that in a good way. please see the new thread "Then and Now"
oz


Posted by: F107plus5

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 04:35 PM

Ok...Ok....

I'm guilty of being a bit involved in hijacking this thread too....so....

Lets see...M3s inclosed on shelf units?, Hmmmmm....

I ran a pair of M3s on short filing cabinets close in on either side of an entertainment unit for a couple years, and they sounded great. No complaints.

We then moved into a bigger place and I installed a pair of M50s INSIDE said entertainment unit(yuck)and they sound(as expected) almost identical to an M3 now sitting fully exposed, vertical and inverted, on top of our Mits 65.

Then again, maybe all our speakers whould sound Even Better if they were placed in the open as they were designed, but they sound good even as it is!!

But hey...your "New Thread" looks cool
Posted by: dkfan

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 06:03 PM

Hello folks!
Just thought I'll let you guys know, you guys are amazingly funny and nice. The reason I started haunting the forum here was to get more info. on Axioms, my dream speakers, but nowadays, I just drop in here to have a good laugh!

BTW,
Jack, you look dapper, and, your friends, well enough said about them already I guess!! Anyways, that was damn nice of you to share your memories, friends and ofcourse those jealousy-inspiring pictures with everyone here! Thanks.

Cheers!

P.S: I know I'll be 60 someday, like you said, sooner than I'd know but just hope I'll be as lucky as 'few' other 60 year-old people!

P.P.S: Does it take 4 edits for everyone to get all the typos ironed out of their posts or is it just me?????
Posted by: bridgman

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 07:27 PM

>>Does it take 4 edits for everyone to get all the typos ironed out of their posts or is it just me?????

It's just you. I usually need two or three but rarely four.
Posted by: dkfan

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 07:42 PM

Ah ok!
I'm gonna blame it squarely on the vile russian stuff!

Posted by: oz350z

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 07:54 PM

Welcome
Four edits sounds about right.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 08:01 PM

In reply to:

Jack, you have totally hi"jack"ed this thread.


I am sufficiently chastened.
Posted by: Ajax

Re: 3ti's in a bookcase - 11/06/05 08:02 PM

In reply to:

Does it take 4 edits for everyone to get all the typos ironed out of their posts or is it just me?????


ONLY 4????