Was jus gonna let everyone know that i just got some New Speaker Cables the other day ordered them online from a guy over at Audiogon they are called Anticables . Anyways i know i am prob opening up a can of worms here but they really opened up my sound for everything the Bass tightened up all i know is my other Cables were MIT 2's an these beat them Hands down things were dramatically clearer an listening to CD's added a new dimension . So to me they are way better but i called one of my buddys over an after he listened to em he goes i might have to get me a set so 2 diff people can't b wrong . Please nobody tellin me i am hearing things please this is jus a informative post to let others know i tried em an i like em lol now going to sell the Mit 2's lol
Nope, could very well be that you aren't hearing things. That things HAVE changed.
From what I know and what I think I know; speaker cables will either not change the sound at all(good cables), or, change different parts of the overall spectrum,(bad cables, but "good" if they modify the parts that you "like")
Lots of folks spend lots of money trying to get their speakers to sound like what they wish their speakers would have sounded like in the first place. And sometimes it even works!! Perhaps your old cables attenuated parts of the sound spectrum that didn't agree with you! Congratulations if it helps!!
At the very least just changing the wires will give you nice clean connections to pass the signal even better!
At any rate, it's kinda like the reason I want to get tubes for M3s in my diningroom system. I know the tubes will modify the sound cause the tubes and the speakers will chase each other round and around and change the sound in ways that I think I'll like for the "music only" system!!
Well from what i know of Tubes it will make your Sound Warmer anyways when i ordered one of my Budds that has a High Dollar System , lemme think a McCormick Amp can't remember what his Pre Amp is an a Rega Planet Cd Player with a Krix Lyrix Speakers an $$ into Interconnects i know he has Better Cables as his Speaker Cables but he wanted a set of these Cables said for the Money kinda not hard to just try em out so i am heading up there tomorrow to test em out . here is a link so u can look at him http://www.anticables.com/ can't hurt to just look lol but i know for my Ears i did good . thanx for the reply
Be happy. Go in peace.
Enjoy your new cables, and be happy with them!
It just isn't worth starting this discussion again on this board.
Those that know, know. Those that don't know, will NEVER learn!!
Glad the Anticables are sounding good. F107plus5 is probably right. The MITs might have been attenuating some frequencies that the enamaled solid core copper is letting through. My experience with "magnet wire" has been good as well, smooth but very clear.
Ratpack -
"It just isn't worth starting this discussion again on this board."
"Those that know, know. Those that don't know, will NEVER learn!!"
Nice. Don't start it up again, but make sure everone knows you have put your stamp on it. Please.
tig: I'm a little confused. What do you mean by "put your stamp on it?"
"Those that know, know. Those that don't know, will NEVER learn!!" Sounds a bit condescending to me.
tig: Roger, you read me loud and clear, OUT!!!
Hey Rat,
You sure like yelling a lot with all your capitals and exclamation points. All bark and, well you know the rest all too well I'm sure.
Again, this is a matter about which there shouldn't be rational debate. Speaker cables serve simply as a rail for guiding an electromagnetic wave to its destination. The portion of the wave that penetrates into the cable is lost as heat and takes no direct part in the sound which results. Varying metals, twists, etc. can have no effect separate from the resistance which causes some of the power in the wave to be drawn into the wire and lost. This has been well-known for decades and subjective illusions to the contrary collapse when put to the only test in which it's actually necessary to "trust your ears", i.e. a blind listening test.
John: I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!!!!!!
But, there are some, who will ALWAYS claim otherwise.
We have beat this poor, dead horse many times on this board. Same thing on other boards!
Have a GREAT Sunday.
End of discussion.
I personally do not understand the sense in beating up on somebody simply because they think otherwise than ourselves.
How's that go...
".....if you ain't got anything good to say, don't say nothing at all."
Bob: have you ever watched the movie "Forrest Gump?" In it I believe that there is a scene where someone says something to the effect "Stupid is what stupid does!" I liked that saying because I think that it says a lot about people in general and human nature in specific.
I have posted on this and other boards that everyone is entitled to their opinion, EVEN IF IT IS WRONG! That's what our great North American nations are based on.
There is engineering fact when it comes to speaker cables and then there is charlatan fiction when it comes to speaker cables. Opinion is NOT necessarily the same as fact.
I am not interested in a flame war or anything like it. The electronic engineer in me is simply tired of all the BS about speaker cables/ wires which is nothing more, at best, than absolutely wrong opinion.
Peace and have a GREAT day.
ratpack, may I remind you than opinions deal more in the realm of personal experience than in the blacks and whites of truth and fiction. An opinion is more like a feeling. There's much more that goes into an opinion than measurable reality. Emotion and preconceptions have just as much to do with opinions as cold hard facts.
Browbeating people with your 'absolutely correct opinion' isn't doing anything to put this debate to rest.
Ok....when it comes to cables, I'm a definate "outsider" here. I am currently running my mains and center on some hand-me-down 14G wires my near-son-in-law was pitching out and thought I might need. I slapped a meter on them and, finding no shorts or opens, slipped them twixt my speakers and receiver to replace the 22G(may be 24G, but I don't feel like climbing up there again to check for sure)I was using from the old HTIB days.
....the surrounds are Still on the fishline stuff.
I have accidently(Ok...and sometimes on purpose)run across a number of articles on snake-oil as well as honest wires, and I often see references to varrying capacitances and inductances. (resistances too, but, big deal)
Question:
WILL a change in inductance and capacitance induced by those cute, but horribly expensive doo-dads added into the equally expensive boutique stranded or solid "cables" manifest itself, no matter how little, in a variation in sound produced, compared to straight sane good quality wires??
I have gotten the impression.....not enough to form an opinion....that a differences, though it may be small, does(maybe)exist.
And that the difference is "usually" detrimental.
I do know that having clean connections does help, not as much as in the old days with cast iron hardware, but helpfull none the less.
I also get the impression looking out the window that the world is flat....but then I wander down to the coast and see the boats slide off the edge....
pmb: I'm going to give this topic a rest.
I'm not going to change anyone's mind (opinion) with facts. That's quite obvious and OK.
No!! Don't rest!! Wake it back up!!
Give us your engineering facts so that we Can put it to rest!!
....I did a quick search and couldn't find 'em.
May it "rest" in peace.
LOL!!
No Problem....
....though I may cable some flowers to put on the grave stone.
nuf said.
Rich, it's just about impossible to screw up regular lampcord type speaker wire. Capacitance is pretty much of no significance for speaker wire(it is for interconnects); a very high capacitance could make some poorly-designed amplifiers unstable. Excessive inductance in speaker wire would roll off the treble response, but inductance is governed primarily by the distance between the centers of the two conductors in the wire, and the usual closely-spaced wires have low enough inductance that the small differences between them at 20KHz aren't of audible significance.
Now if those "doo-dads" that you mention are magic boxes attached to the wire which intentionally add excessive inductance, then there could be created a roll-off of the highest frequencies which might be audible. If so, that wire might be praised as "smoother, sweeter, less harsh", etc. although it would actually be reducing the fidelity of the sound. If a recording really needed that treatment, that's what tone controls are for.
Thanx....that pretty well clarifies the issues!!
Even solidifies what I knew and thought I knew back when this thread was just beginning!!
"Good Cables" being those that do nothing to screw up or modify the signal!!
Thanks again, for putting it in better focus!
Rich.
....now I'll have to re-read your response another three times to be sure I keep the electrical relationships organized!!
Ratpack wrote:
In reply to:
John: I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!!!!!!
But, there are some, who will ALWAYS claim otherwise.
We have beat this poor, dead horse many times on this board. Same thing on other boards!
Have a GREAT Sunday.
End of discussion.
The Rat.
Reasonable folks may differ as to whether there is an audible difference between lamp cord and cables specially designed for audio applications ... I think what's interesting about these discussions on this site is how a small clack of extremely rude people who presume to know-it-all effectively shut down and shout down any report by any member of this forum which offers a conflicting opinion. I find the postings of ratpack, johnk and the other usual suspects simply rude and inappropriate for this forum.
I think it's interesting that everyone congratulates Axiom on the rightful recognition its speakers received from the folks at the recent CES but no one noticed that Audio Quest Sky Interconnects were on the podium for their outstanding inteconnects.
It was the Sound Stage Review of the M3 which aroused my interest in Axiom speakers. If you look at the reviews and award section of this site you will see how many awards Axiom speakers have received from this group. Sound Stage just gave the Audio Quest Sky Interconnects "Best Product Debut." If you want to take a look at all the different speaker wires, cables and power cords reviewed by Sound Stage, Good Sound and On Hifi and Home Theater & Sound (each and everyone of them have given awards to Axiom speakers) here's the link:
http://www.soundstageav.com/avreviews_cables_interconnects.html
So, isn't it interesting that our brain trust who know all there is to know about audio electronics disagree with a very substantial body of data and experience compiled by the most renowned and respected reviewers in the industry ... the same reviewers who have made Axiom's on line reputation?
< ominous voice somewhat reminiscent of the borg collective >
The brain trust reminds you that we can silence your opinions as any moment. Continuing to go against our will may result in the removal of your fingertips.
I too was drawn to Axiom by the M3 reviews, and also took the opportunity to read a number of the cable reviews as well. I found them more than just a little interesting, but due to the wires costing more than the speakers....!!
The one thing that I did take home about the "Better" speaker cables was their transparency and lack of coloration. They couldn't make the sound from the finals any better, just didn't make it any worse!
That quality materials and workmanship were a plus.
That some of them are really stunning audio gewlery!
I don't know for sure what criteria was used by the reviewers in their final determinations, if advertizing were a consideration or how they were able to actually hear the differences, but it was fascinating reading! And perhaps by having an impecible system in an audio-heaven room, the differences May be obvious!!
My take on it in my situation is simple: My speakers, though very good, are not super-stereophile great! And my room....well.
Could I get better sound by putting superior cables betwixt my M3s and Onkyo? I dunno, if I could afford to try, I might just for fun. I think I understand what's goin' on here, so I wouldn't expect to hear much of an improvement commensurate to the cost. I mean, what's the absolute best an inexpensive Onkyo plus M3s CAN sound anyway??!!
It might be like putting Webers on my Austin Healey; I may push the zero to sixty times down from 13 to 12 seconds, but hey, I still couldn't outrun a stock Civic
2x6: I find your pretense of electrical knowledge very offensive to any engineer or scientifically inclined person. You have absolutely no concept of physics or electronics, yet you continue spew this nonsense.
I hope that this is rude enough for you to quit this crap about speaker cables on this board!!
You simply do not know what you are talking about!
Rat, you are well named and make my point. I don't post here as much as I used to because folks like you have made this an increasingly unpleasant forum. You are part of a clack which enforces your common set of opinions by insult and personal attacks against those who express differing opinions.
You may have noticed how boring this site has become. There are folks who just don't want to bother with the kind of unpleasantness you have brought to this forum. On the other hand, you are having a good time enforcing your small minded orthodoxy by offensive behavior. You have made your mark on this site. Too bad for Axiom.
Wait!! 2X6, don't leave!!
Uh,...what kind of wires did you use when you built "Frankenstein"?(I mentioned "wires" so I wouldn't be entirely hijacking the thread)
You were also working on a follow-up center design but you failed to let us know what happened.
...what happened??
No! Don't leave!! Your opinions are valued and much appreciated here!!
Rich.
Hi 2x6,
First off I think you know I'm really not a fan of tubes, other than the looks, and I don't share your views on wires. HOWEVER I do enjoy reading your point of view. It would be a very boring place if we were in agreement over everything.
Please keep posting and adding colour to this site.
Wayne
In reply to:
boring
This and the "Surrender" thread. I think not!
If someone is uninformed on a particular audio topic and comes to a board seeking information, presumably he wants factual information, not simply a regurgitation of subjective impressions which can be, and often are, misimpressions. In scanning other boards too often what is found is the misinformed attempting to educate the uninformed; the situation here is better.
2x6: I just can not fathom why an educated person like yourself can not understand the difference between personal opinion and technical fact.
If I told you that I think that sun rises in the West, you would think that absurd. I could give you all sort of rationale, but you still would not believe it. Why? Because you REALLY know better. That is exactly how the scientific community views your comments on speaker wires. We know better.
And, that is FACT not OPINION.
I like this board because there are some pretty sharp audio people here. You would do well to listen to some of them.
By the way, I'm glad that you like my alias. I tried to be creative.
ratpack, please tone down your "holier than thou" ranting. It irks me -- and I'm on your side.
I could not have said it better myself, John.
I'd like to second Peter on this one. Please, take it to PMs if you must. And before certain people jump on me, yes, I am a hypocrite--who has learned to try and tone it down.
I think what gets lost in all of this noise is something important for us "brain trusts" to remember--many high end cables attenuate the signal, or otherwise modify it with increased capacitance, etc. Some people like the sound of this; it's often called warmth. Me, I like my warmth to come from the original artist, but that's a personal feeling. I know that JohnK feels the same way. However, it is certainly valid for someone to like different sound provided by cables that in fact do not have the same electrical properties as higher gauge straight copper. Now, the question becomes how much of a move away from that copper electrical properties is audible. I'm pretty sure that can be measured.
On the other hand, some high end cables are a total scam.
C'mon 2x6, JohnK isn't rude - he's one of the most polite guys around.
And while I have zero interest in esoteric cables (and no factual info on their worth), I can see the romance all that stuff has for the enthusiast. Golf is the same way - maybe worse.
I get it now! Clubs made out of exotic materials can shave points off your score in the same way that exotic speaker cables can shave kilohertz off your audio signal.
It's all coming back to me as to why I take breaks from this place.............
IF you leave now, it will seem like you take breaks from taking breaks from this place, rather than just taking breaks from this place.
I guess what I'm trying to say is you just got back.
pmb: please don't take this the wrong way, but I am not going to change when it comes to Fact versus Fiction. I will speak up. I am tired of such crap. It has no place on this board.
My we kill this dead horse and end this thread?
never: I think that you have a valid point.
Have a great day.
Is there a full moon on these boards lately?
I guess it keeps life interesting - so long as we don't hurt anyone's feelings so much that they decide to sue everyone else.
Case in Point
Heh Heh! Being in Ohio, that story was front page news around here. You guys all better take it to heart. Don't make me mad, now, or it's CourtTV for all of you!
I too, once made the unfortunate error of posting about my "discovery" regarding bi-wire Monster cables........you can guess the rest, I'm sure.
I just want to say....don't believe ANYONE, who gets so hysterical over speaker wires in the first place, (USUALLY haters) and secondly, about 100% of those that make polite, technical, or even the "flame" replies............have NEVER owned, or even heard the products they slam.
Do I really need to have owned or heard a pair of $1000/ft speaker cables to tell someone not to waste their money on them because they can't possibly get the signal from their amplifier to their speakers any better than, say 12-gauge zip cord can?
I would not have used such an extreme example...($1000.00 cables) but,.........YES.
Yesterday I had the day off so I finally installed the my new Axiom 12 gauge speaker cable. I also put nice AR bannana plug terminators at the speaker end and left the amp end bare wire. I am very happy with the up grade and immediately noticed improved mid tones, wider and deeper soundstage and more bass slam. I can't believe I have had these since Christmas and I just got around to doing this now. Could I be imagining all this, I don't think so, but mamma always said I was a half bubble off plumb.
Anyway not the least important thing is, they look sweet and with the bannana plugs I can change things out a lot quicker.
oz
Could be, that it sounds better cuz you really want it to!
Could be, cuz you have cleaner connections!
Could be, cuz your previous wires were defective or inadequate!
Could be, that there is some kind of inexplicable and unexplainable improvement not covered by electrical theory and residing in the realm of feelings and sonic interpretation.
Certain that, you're a happy camper and that's all that matters!!
In reply to:
Certain that, you're a happy camper and that's all that matters!!
That could very well be!
oz
Though I think your coming down in the "audio mythology" camp threatens your credibility in the "Surrender" thread.
Just kidding. I bought fancy fat interconnects with gold plated thingees just in case.
Just for the record, I can't really say whether I hear a difference or not. I just like to stir it up and keep it interesting. I stand by the fact and it is a fact, that they do look much better.
oz
One good reason I decided to buy a nicer speaker cable and interconnect is........................because I wanted to. That's always a good reason imo.
Amen, Wid! That's the best reason to buy anything.
In reply to:
That's the best reason to buy anything.
Not if you share a bank account with someone else it's not.
LOL! A problem (or benefit, depending on how you look at it) I've never had.
In reply to:
Not if you share a bank account with someone else it's not
It just takes a little convincing.
Sometimes it takes a LOT of convincing
You could always just buy what you want and put up with the complaing that would be sure to come. That only last for a short period, well worth it imo. I'm lucky enough thet I do get to buy what I want, with in reason, with no complaining attached.
Some of them look pretty cool too!
Sound any better??? Does it matter? They look cool!
And I’m not being a smart ass….yes I am….no I’m not…..my speakers did to break in……or was it my ears….no, definitely break in….oh hell………..they still look cool.
Who really shot JFK?
In reply to:
I too, once made the unfortunate error of posting about my "discovery" regarding bi-wire Monster cables........you can guess the rest, I'm sure.
I just want to say....don't believe ANYONE, who gets so hysterical over speaker wires in the first place, (USUALLY haters) and secondly, about 100% of those that make polite, technical, or even the "flame" replies............have NEVER owned, or even heard the products they slam.
I felt the same way here at the very beginning after I purchased my M60s and started to talk about break-in.
And as for the speakers cables, interconnects, etc.. it is true... it all comes from people that probably never tried anything different from what they currently have and have had forever.
i also recently changed to the axiom cables sitting with me since i purchased them few months ago...i used the interconnects at the amplifie end and bare wire at the speaker end....to my amateur ears there was hardly any difference....or maybe there is !!!!!!!!
One thing for sure guys, no matter what you actually think about speaker wires, break-in, politics, or whether solid state amps are linear or not; it sure pays to have a good sense of humor!!
Sure are a lot of "Hot Buttons" huh?
But one thing I think I've noticed(and don't tell anybody I told you this)When all is said and done; if you simply say at the end: "I Bought it cause I Like It" Everyone will pretty much nod in agreement and admit that you probably did the right thing, cause we're all in this cause we like it and are just having fun!!
....well, except for Monster cables and those funny little table radios with the snaky speaker tunnels.
um..........and DON'T you Ever call your Axioms "Bright"!!