EP-500 rattle

Posted by: Billy_hk

EP-500 rattle - 06/10/06 10:43 PM

when I watched movive "we were soliders", at some scenes it would start rattle. Then I removed the grille and found the woofer moves forth and back at large distance which causes this. So,is my woofer damaged in certain extend?
The volume is only above -28dB on AV receiver.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/10/06 11:01 PM

The MAIN volume on the receiver may be at -28dB, but what about the volume on the back of the sub? Also, what is the dB level of the Sub channel on the receiver? Also, how do you have your speakers setup in the receiver, small or large, and what crossover setting?

Here is my settings:

Sub - Volume/Gain knob about halfway between Min. and 9o'clock position. Crossover knob set to bypass. Trim set to Flat.

Receiver - All speakers set to small, crossover 80hz, dB level of sub channel about -4dB.

My guess is some of your settings are wrong.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/10/06 11:10 PM

The EP x00s can get a lot of movement in their woofers; I kind of doubt that you've done anything wrong there. More likely, there is a loose wire or some such inside the sub (I'm assuming you've localized it to the sub, and not something in the room rattling). I'd probably give Axiom a call and check in with them about it.

The solution to rattles that was often bandied about here awhile back was to make sure all the screws around the woofer were tight. I can only add to this: be very, very careful with that screwdriver. You'll be putting a lot of pressure on it, and if it slips, you'll regret it. A lot.
Posted by: Billy_hk

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/11/06 01:02 AM

My settings: 80Hz cross at receiver. +1.5dB gain for subwoofer setting at receiver and trim Flat. Bass out for subwoofer only.
Mine reciever is Yamaha 2500. Subwoofer volume at 9 o'clock.
The rattle sounds like "didi dada". I am afraid it is bottoming.
The subwoofer has been using 3 months.Most of the material do not generate rattle. My listening volume will never greater than -25dB.The movies have the woofer rattle so far are: War of the world, SkyCaptain, We were soliders.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/11/06 01:08 AM

Call Axiom. Those things are specifically designed not to bottom out, so it sounds like there may be something wrong. And something wrong is usually covered under warranty!
Posted by: Wid

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/11/06 01:09 AM

My experiance is when a sub is bottoming out it is more like a loud clapping sound. With the dps on the 500 this should not be bottoming out.

Is the system calibrated ?
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/11/06 10:10 AM

Not sure if this is causing your problem, but it sounds like your running the sub a little to hot. Axiom recommends starting with the sub volume(gain) between Min. and 9 o'clock, which would be around 6.5 to 7 o'clock position. In addition, if your receiver is at +1.5 dB that would seem to be to much.

Does your receiver have the built in microphone setup? Or, do you have a Radio Shack SPL meter? I bet if you calibrated everything to 75 dB's you would find that the receiver sub setting would be at more like -6dB's and/or you would need to turn down the sub gain.

When I first got my EP500 I had the gain way to high, and when I ran some test tones, especially at very low freq's around 20 hz, the Woofer was really traveling in/out a lot, and producing a clapping like sound, as Wid described above.

I found I was running everything way to hot.
Posted by: Billy_hk

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/11/06 11:02 AM

My receiver got a mic auto-setup. Using auto-calibration it will set LFE to about -6dB when it is 9'o clock on sub.
But someone told me the mic is not sensitive to low freq and advise to turn up the gain at least5-6dB. I feel overall watching movies is stunning except at time the subwoofer rattles and make me irritated.
Is that clapping sound in ep500 should be normal?
Posted by: Wid

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/11/06 11:18 AM

I would recalibrate the system and leave it as is. Turning the sub up 2 or 3 db should be ok but 5 or 6 is way to hot. Did you use a spl meter when turning the sub up ?
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/11/06 11:31 AM

With my Denon, the auto setup microphone does a very good job with dB levels and distance settings. I have verified the settings with my SPL Radio Shack meter and they are very close to being correct. I think your Yamaha microphone will be pretty accurate. If you have the sub on 9 o'clock, I still think your AVR is set to high. You want all the speakers to be at the same SPL, this is where the Radio Shack meter is nice, you can verify your Auto Setup results.

There are some other Yamaha/EP500/600 owners on this forum. Maybe they will jump in here and give you their settings. My guess is that your still running to hot on the sub volume.

I don't think this is causing the rattling your hearing, but it may be enhancing the problem. As ken mentioned, you might want to check the screws on the back/front of the sub to make sure they are all snug. Air escaping around seals on the driver/amp can cause funny sounds. Or it could be as simple as a wire vibrating on the inside. I had a problem with my first EP500 and I could trace the sound to the back amp plate, the rattle was on the inside, so they sent me a new amp.

If you leave the sub at 9 o'clock, you'll need to lower the AVR to -6dB or more.

If you put the sub at around 7 o'clock, your AVR will be around -4dB or so.

As wid mentioned, trust the yamaha setup, maybe bump up the AVR a few dB, no more.

If you can buy an SPL meter from Radio Shack or online, it is a great investment to verify your settings.
Posted by: Billy_hk

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/12/06 12:27 PM

After doing some research on this forum, the problem may be one of these: amp rattle, cone rattle or bolt not fasten well. I downloaded some test tones and made an CD to do extense testing. The AVR 's sub gain is set -3dB and sub level at 7 o'clock followed sirquack's advice.
I tried to remove the amp out of the box and placed on the floor and listened. The rattle now sounds louder like motor vibrating with some higher freq. The sound came from the box. Since I am using spike, the sound is similar to that I am moving the box around(it is concrete ground). And I found one loosen spike hanging around. I tried to fasten that spike by hand only and listen again, with the amp placed back.
The rattle seems reduce a lot. I realized that if the ground is not flat there may be vibrating between them.
I am thinking if using rubber feet will be better because if I increased the volume to -20dB on AVR I can still hear some rattle.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/12/06 12:31 PM

When I had a rattle problem, I could actualy take my hand and apply a little preasure to the Amp plate when installed and the noise would change. Another thing is that if air is escaping around the drivers or amp, that can make noises. I also noticed that the negative terminal wire post on the back of the amp was loose on mine, so I think that is where the rattle was coming from.

When I played the RealTraps Test tones, my noise was very bad around 20-25 hz, beyond that I could not hear it...

I would just call Axiom, and explain what is going on and what you've tried to fix the problem. They will help you out...
Posted by: jimmienorton

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/12/06 05:52 PM

I had to get a replacement,I had the rattle to and it was the woofer. Play the bass thing on Avia where it goes from 100hz to 23hz. Mine started at 60Hz and went to 23Hz. Axiom is great they will work with you to get it right. Once its right you will be so happy!!!!
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/13/06 06:45 PM

Did you say you were using spikes on concrete?

If so... switch to the feet. The spikes are intended for carpet.
Posted by: Billy_hk

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/14/06 07:19 AM

Yes. I use spikes on concrete. Isn't using spike can make bass more firm? I don't want to make changes now until I got reply from axiom.
btw, what should low freq(<30hz) bass sound like?
Using test tones, I can hear spiders vibration and little port noise ,and some room resonsates.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/14/06 09:32 AM

If I recall correctly, Alan at Axiom has stated that using spikes, rubber, or nothing makes no difference in the sound. The spikes are intended for carpeting to secure the speaker. What makes a difference is positioning of the sub in the room, and what other furniture/carpeting/wall coverings you have. If you have concrete floors, your sound will definately be different. Heck, maybe the sound is coming from the spikes moving around during heavy activity.
Posted by: dllewel

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/14/06 01:33 PM

Use the spikes if you have carpet and the feet if you have a smooth floor like hardwood or tile. You want the sub to be stable so that when it is working hard it doesn't walk or move. The more stable it is the higher the output as well.
Posted by: Billy_hk

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/19/06 11:36 AM

Thanks all suggestion. I have secured all spikes as hard as possible
to minimize vibration. I set AVR sub gain to 0dB,7 o'clock on sub's back and the output seems more stable now ,and yet powerful.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/19/06 12:14 PM


Thanks all suggestion. I have secured all spikes as hard as possible
to minimize vibration

I think the point that others were making is that you shouldn't be using the spikes at all on a concrete floor, and should instead use the rubber feet.
Posted by: Wid

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/19/06 12:40 PM

I use spikes on a concrete floor covered with carpet with no problems at all.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/19/06 12:49 PM

But I haven't seen mention of carpeting; I believe he's using spikes directly on concrete.

If I'm correct on the above, I would think a 500 would start digging little spike-shaped holes in the cement after a few good movies!
Posted by: Wid

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/19/06 01:28 PM

Posted by: SirQuack

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/19/06 02:18 PM

yep, I think he is using them on concrete, which would not be a good thing. At least I would put a small throw rug or carpet sample underneath the speaker. Not sure how you secure spikes?
Posted by: Billy_hk

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/20/06 07:52 AM

I was lazy change to rubber feet since I moved the sub many times for troubleshooting before. Hence, I just secured existing spikes and found result satisfactory.What's the different placing a carpet underneath the speaker?
Posted by: bridgman

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/20/06 08:37 AM

There's just a chance that the spikes will rattle on the concrete when the sub is working hard... putting carpet underneath should prevent that from happening.
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: EP-500 rattle - 06/20/06 11:14 AM

I still don't understand what your saying by "securing spikes", how can you secure them more than just screwing them in tight? It is easy to turn the sub on its side and try the rubber knobs. As others have stated the spikes are intended for carpeting to help secure the speaker.