Having seconds thoughts....need advice!

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After much deliberation, research and conversation online (see Newbie in CT thread) about whether the M60's would work in my living room, I changed my mind and ordered the M22's and stands, now I am having buyer's remorse. I am thinking I should have just gotten the 60's. I am sure the 22's are going to be a good set of mains for building my system but am I giving up a lot of sonic capability in the end? The 60's weigh 3 times the M22's and have the dual sub woofer and I won't be getting a sub for a little while anyway. I need more helpful input before I call the factory!

Its really quite simple, buy the biggest, best speaker that you can afford and that your amp can handle, in your case it would be the 60's. I would get what you really want not a half measure.

Chris

If you're not getting a sub, then 60s would be the way to go. IMHO.

I was originally concerned with the lack of free space in front of one of them and thought the 22's on stands would get them up to ear level and past a couch arm 3 ft away. Anyone have any input on how either pair sounds at fairly low volume? As much as I'd like to wind them up more than once in a while, the reality is that they will be played pretty moderately most of the time.

Unlike every single other member of these fora, I would recommend trying out the M22s. If you decide to upgrade within that 30 day window, you can always do that. From what I understand (could be wrong) Axiom will pay for shipping both ways.

Dave:
My very first question in these forums many moons ago was a concern about whether or not the M60s could sound good...delicate even...at softer volumes. I was assured that they sound great at lower volumes as well as cranked up, and now that I own a pair, can assure you of the same.

If you're not getting a sub, I would go for the M60s easy!

That's probably the best advice, I am buying them from the factory store so it is going to be several weeks before I get them. I guess if I wanted to beat up my credit card, I could go ahead and buy the 60's too and send back whichever pair I didn't want.

Then you'll have to pay shipping back on one of them.

True, but it would be nice to have them both here at once. Too bad Axiom would not create some kind of special audition/comparision policy for multiple sets, lol!

IMHO
I would rather buy the M22's and a EP175 as a set for $1030 they are only $60 more and the $970 M60's.

Would the 175 be OK for a 15 by 17 by 8.5 room?

If you want a sub then the Outlaw LFM-1 plus M22s would be nice $976

Are you an Outlaw fan? I was originally going to buy the Marantz 5100 but now am probably going to order the Outlaw 1070 before my speakers get shipped.

That's a nice price on the LFM 1.

Agree! Then I might not have to wait to get the sub either, since I see Outlaw has a deal if you buy from them on credit for no interest for 12 months!

Dave, on the M22 question, my input is that it's been five years now since I got mine and no second thoughts about their superb performance have arisen. Of course, as I've revealed before, I had upgraditis as a child and apparently developed an immunity, so take that into account.

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I had upgraditis as a child and apparently developed an immunity

My wife is working on a vaccine.

I'll keep everyone posted.

Check out the combo deals at outlaw. (SHOP)

Just to add fuel to the fire...

No one here has ever said, "I finally bit the bullet and bought M22's to replace my M60's. Can't believe I waited this long!". But you will find the inverse happening from time to time.

Unless your specific situation (room size, WAF, budget, etc) requires bookshelves, the M60 or M80 will sound 'better'. More bass, more presence, more capability. More better speaker goodness.

That said, I was relatively satisfied with my M22+crappy sub setup for a couple of years. Upgrading the sub made a world of difference, and if that hadn't started a massive upgradeitis flare-up, I would have been quite content with that. M22's are *excellent* speakers for the money. I'm using mine as rear surrounds and it makes me sad that they don't get more use. Eventually they will find their way to my office where they will once again be happy....

But M22's can't compete with the M80's. Owning both, I know this for a fact. And according to most, M80's are only a slight upgrade from the M60's.

So my advice? If you haven't even made it 30 days and are playing the 'what if' game, then you're not completely satisfied with the speakers. If you can afford the upgrade, do it.

If you're skipping the sub, the m22's just won't work unless you are going to use them for like extreme near-field speakers (like desktop monitors). They have no bass below about 60hz and you will find them lacking if you're going to ask them to do much bass. With a decent sub (Axiom, SVS, HSU, etc), they are delightful for home theater and very good for stereo. But if you want a rich, full, and lush soundstage, with jaw-dropping dynamics and the ability to 'blow women's clothes off' (sorry, just watched The Italian Job again) floor-standers (M50/M60/M80) are the way to go.

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I had upgraditis as a child and apparently developed an immunity

My wife is working on a vaccine.

I'll keep everyone posted.

Please hurry, I feel a severe case coming on......

Jason,

Before you go buying M60s, make sure you hear a decent sub calibrated with the rest of the system. When listening to movies in my room at -10db, you don't even know that all that sound is coming from a little bookshelf. The EP500 and the M22s are seriously big competition for floorstanders (for movies anyway, and music IMHO).

I have to laugh when I think about how far I've come in just a few short months when I decided we needed a new music and HT system. From starting in the big box stores listening to salesmen trying to sell me entry level crap, to a high end audio store, to buying really good stuff online after finding sites like this one and products like Axiom, Outlaw, etc. It is definitely a disease, and this forum is like reverse therapy!

Dave, most of us have gone the same route. We're just trying to save you time and money. It's a lot easier to start with something good and add to it, rather than start with something bad and having to replace it.

I appreciate all of the advice offered on this site. Who knows what I would have ended up with?
Now I know there's a whole different level out there and I'm hooked.
Anyone who uses a sub with the 60's have any input? Is that needed in 2200 sq ft room?

>>Anyone who uses a sub with the 60's have any input? Is that needed in 2200 sq ft room?

2200 sq ft or 2200 cu ft ? Just checking...

For music I would say a sub is optional. I still often turn the sub off when listening to music. If your room really is 2200 sq ft, though, I would probably leave the sub turned on so the speakers don't have to work so hard.

Sorry, 2200 cubic ft.

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I appreciate all of the advice offered on this site. Who knows what I would have ended up with?
Now I know there's a whole different level out there and I'm hooked.
Anyone who uses a sub with the 60's have any input? Is that needed in 2200 sq ft room?

My room is 15' x 17'x 8' (1/2 of one side of my room opens up into a 10'x 8' x 8' area.

I thought my M60s were a little lacking in the lows. That is more of my personal tastes however. I'm a big fan of 70s music which is full of poor recorded stuff ... Axiom being so accurate you could really tell the difference between a well recorded CD and old 70s stuff.

Unfortunately the first thing I put on my axioms was an old Kinks CD. I was very unimpressed, even disappointed. Then I calibrated the system and put on good quality recorded CDs and was blown away.

Still I wanted a bit more bass for my 70s stuff and it wasn't until I got my HSU 2.3 subwoofer that my old stuff really started to sound good to me. Not to mention the movies sounded WAY better.

People talk about the M22s requiring a subwoffer, but for my personal tastes, the M60s aslo require it.

Well folks, after all of the input, advice and personal debate, I called Noreen at Axiom and changed my order so...the 60's ship May 1!! I'm sure the 22's would have been great but if this is my only audio life for awhile, why not live it big? No regrets, no returns!

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I have to laugh when I think about how far I've come in just a few short months when I decided we needed a new music and HT system. From starting in the big box stores listening to salesmen trying to sell me entry level crap, to a high end audio store, to buying really good stuff online after finding sites like this one and products like Axiom, Outlaw, etc. It is definitely a disease, and this forum is like reverse therapy!

Same here, started with just an "idea" that mabey I should buy some good speakers (since I love music etc).

When we bought a house the basement was screaming for a home theatre, the wife gave the go-ahead, I haven't looked back since.

I love the Axiom sound...my M2s are on order, that will make me an owner of the whole bookshelf collection from Axiom...am I obsessed?

>>> For music I would say a sub is optional. I still often turn the sub off when listening to music. If your room really is 2200 sq ft, though, I would probably leave the sub turned on so the speakers don't have to work so hard.

Wouldn't it depend on the song as well? I have 16'x13'x9' room with M60s as main and EP500 (overkill I know

). On some music I listen to, having the sub on didn't make too much of a difference if at all but on some others it made a pretty significant difference. Regardless, I keep the sub on all the time now though cause I'm too lazy to turn it on/off everything I switch from watching movie to listening music

Dave,

I'm in Connecticut too, less than an hour away from you, near Danbury. As luck would have it, I presently have both M60s and M22s hooked up. I'm running the M22s as dual center channels with the M60s as mains and QS4 surrounds. I have a DIY sub as well.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't run either the M22s or the M60s without a sub, especially for LFE in movies.

I see that you've already placed your order for the M60s. But if you're still agonizing over the decision, I'm extending an invitation to come and listen to my speakers and compare them side by side. My room is similar in size to yours (15x20)

I was really happy with the M22s as my main speakers for the past couple of years. I just came across a really good deal on the M60s that I couldn't pass up.

PM me if you want to set something up.

Joe

Joe- I really appreciate that invite and may take you up on that! It just confirms that I made a great choice with the Axioms. I made a cardboard cut-out with the speaker dimensions and showed my wife the footprint so we'll see (How much is return shipping on the 60's??)lol! What are you your driving system with?

Dave,
I'm using a Denon AVR-3803. It's got plenty of power, since the Axioms are pretty easy to drive.

Dave,

I thought I would make a few comments, since I was an M22 owner for a couple years before I made the switch to the M60s.
As has been mentioned, the M60s are a bit lighter in the bass department than I was expecting. I usually listen to them with my sub enabled anyway, so that isn't an issue with me. For lack of a better way of putting this, I liked my M22s, but I always felt that I needed to upgrade. I fought off the urge for as long as I could, using the rational that the M22s+sub is probably superior to the M60s alone. While that might be true for some, for me the M60s were the speaker I had been looking for all along. In the past 2 months I've grown quite fond of them.

I have just ordered a pair of m60's to replace my m22's (6 week wait now). What would you say you have gained by moving to the m60's?

I went from M2s to M60s so it's not quite the same thing... but it probably is pretty close. For me, I gained three things :

1. The ability to play music LOUD without pushing the speakers past their limits.

2. The ability to play music without subwoofer, which I still seem to prefer despite many attempts to get the perfect integration between mains and sub.

3. A whole new world of playing some action-type movies with the volume cranked, eg. the helicopter crash scene in Matrix. Again, this is anti-social behaviour not normal listening levels... but it REALLY sounds great and some of my friends keep coming back even to see/hear the same movies again.

I was wondering about the m60's abilities beyond the m22's w/sub. Because the m60's appear to have the same tweeter and midrange coupled with a speaker setting of small and a crossover point of somewhere between 70-90. It would seem the m60's additional sub speakers would receive very little input.But I am hoping for all the things you list(I am betting 900 bucks on it

)

Even with a crossover of 80hz, the 60's still pump out lots of killer bass, more than the 22's. Keep in mind, a crossover of 80hz does not say it just cuts OFF at the frequency. There is a gradual slope or hand-off to the sub. Many people don't realize how low 80hz really is.

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I have just ordered a pair of m60's to replace my m22's (6 week wait now). What would you say you have gained by moving to the m60's?

I don't know if I can really explain, but I'll give it a bit of a go. When I had the M22s, I always thought they sounded strained when listening loud. The 60s just play louder nicer. Whereas the M22s excel in the mids and highs, I find the M60s just do it all well. Highs, mids, midbass, it's all there. Like I said, I liked my M22s, but I really, really like my M60s. I've shopped around and auditioned some of the major brands, and I think the M60s are by far my favorite speaker experience, so far, but I haven't been in a audio store since the M60s arrived.

I hope you like them as much as I like mine.

Oh darn, there I go killing another speaker thread. Dag, nabbit!