Hi:
My HT setup, in the basement ( roughly 20 Feet X 40 Feet)is as follows:
Pioneer Elite 82
M22 fronts
VP150 Center
QS8 Surrounds
EP-350 Sub
I have a stereo setup in my living room, which have the B&W 603's, paired with a Yamaha stereo receiver.
The Axiom speakers are really very clear, transparent, and crisp. I have no issues with sound/wattage either.
Though I do sometimes feel that they are'nt as warm as the B&W's.
I have a couple of questions.
1> Are the M22's not as warm, or would one say they are not as muddy when compared to the B&W 602's?
2> Would it significantly change the way the system would sound, if i were to use the M60's instead of the M22's,
even though the crossover on the receiver routes stuff under to 80Hz to the Sub woofer?
Looking at the speaker characteristics on the axiom website I see that the M60's have a better low freq response,
as compared to the M22's.
But for frequencies over 80 Hz is pretty much the same.
Wanted to see if anyone else out on the board had similar issues, and/or any thoughts.
Thanks in advance.
Raj
Hi Raj,
"Warm" is a euphemism for plump, "fat" or muddled bass output, which the B&Ws (and lots of other speakers) exhibit and which I liked as a kid but grew weary of very quickly when I discovered neutral, transparent speakers with linear bass that isn't "goosed".
So yes, the M22s aren't as "warm" as the B&W 603s; they are just more linear and natural.
If you used the M60s, even with a subwoofer, you'd get more authoritative bass than the M22s. Crossovers are gradual, so even if you set the M60s to "Small" (just like my M80s, which are set to "Small") and use a sub, you'll still get fuller (but not "fat") bass extension. The mids and highs of the M60s will be similar but not quite identical to the M22s. The latter have a teensy-weensy bit more articulation in the upper mids than the M60s, but it's only audible on instantaneous A/B comparisons.
Regards,
It just so happens I have M22s and M60's hooked up right now on my receiver and switching A/B between them reveals how much more articulate the M22's are than the M60's. It really is very noticeable. As Alan said the mids and highs on the M22's are more crisp and clear, the M60s are warmed up by the extra bass they put out and the Mids and highs are not as forward. With the M60's I have found the vocals on certain cd's take a back seat, so to speak, to the music and vice cersa on other cd's , but the M22's always put the vocals to the front. When I don't switch between the 2 I find the M60's very easy to listen to, still very clear, fuller and richer sounding; when listening to the M22's I find myself listening more critically for the missed/muffled sounds, high points etc.
Alan/Hutzal/Jakewash:
Thanks for your responses.That really clears things up. I saw a post somewhere on the boeard, wherein someone combined the M22 & the M60's and were commenting on the sound.
I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-82TXS which is less than an year old.
Can it drive the M82 (M22 + M60 together). as they will be setup in parallel, and if i am not mistaken will present a 8 ohm load.
Also what are your thoughts on the said receiver driving a pair of M80's which are 4 ohm speakers.
Thanks in advance.
Raj
if you drive the M22s and the M60s in parallel you will get a 4ohm load, make sure that your receiver can handle this!
Robb is right. It will indeed be a 4 Ohm load. The Elite will not have a problem driving this load as you can see
here. It can deliver 190Wx2 into 4 Ohms at very low distortion.
And it was me and jakewash that did the comparisons with the M82. You'll have a great time listening to that combo. I am really jealous
. Enjoy.
Hutzal/Mojo:
You guys are right, it is 4 ohms if driven in parallel.
Thanks for the clarification and info.
Now that the 8/4 ohm qustion is settled, the decision for me is do i get a M80 or a M60.
Once i make up my mind, will post on the board. For those of you interested, please see link to my home theatre below.
Home Theatre Pictures
I wouldn't suggest pairing M80s with M22s if that's what you're thinking. We tried that and found that it didn't sound "right".
If you really like the clarity of the M22s then you will need to go with the M80s alone or with the M22/M60 combo. The 60s are not as articulate as the other 2 but adds a very nice warm rich sound to the lower end but still allows the M22s to shine through in the upper range.
With your setup the M60s could be placed directly below the M22s and the soundstage would be seamless. My setup for the M62 is less desirable as my M22s are about 6" inside the M60s and 6" above them, but it still works exceptionally well.
At the risk of causing further confusion.
My choices are either the M82 (that means buying the M60& combining with my M22's), or the M80 alone.
I was trying to see if i could audition M80's in the chicago area, but dont see anyone on the audition list.
Man the wife is going to kill me, another grand on the HT, either ways ;-)
The M82 will set you back $130 more but it gives you a much better sounding and more flexible system. Jakewash hasn't been totally happy with the M22s for poor recordings because they are more accurate and hence not as forgiving. His wife wants jakewash to be happy so she suggested the M82 (A +B channels on) for well-recorded music and the M60 (A channel only) for poor recordings (because it is more forgiving). So if your wife really cares about your happiness, she'll also want you to get the M82s
.