I just picked up my new M80's Friday and have been breaking them in, but have a question. Has anyone else experienced problems with getting their speakers to balance properly (i.e., not wobbling) on carpet? I installed the spikes on the bottom of the speaker and as well the risers, but neither seems to keep the speakers from having a little wobble to them (feels like they could fall over with just a slight brush-up against them). It seems like a wider base attached to the speaker bottom and then attaching the spikes/risers would cure this problem. Has anyone tried this and if so how did you go about doing this (build your own, purchased modification)?
Have played the M80's for ~ 15 hours and they sound great, looking forward to find the proper placement for them in my room.
Mark has a picture of an outrigger mock-up. You can buy some, or DIY your own plinth or base. It'd help with the stability.
Hopefully, Mark will chime in shortly.
No such thing as "break in"
, according to the Axiom...
I have very thick pad/carpeting in my rec room/HT and the 80's do feel a little uneasy, but have never fallen over. My kids have learned to STAY away....
Brucks,
Maybe you tried this, but I only screwed my spikes in about 3/4ths of the way, and then adjusted each one (testing the wobble) until it felt stable. With the spikes not all the way in, you can move each one up or down. When it felt dialed in, I screwed the lock rings up hard to the bottoms of the speakers to keep the spikes in place.
The M80s DO have a very high centre of balance, so some instability is inevitable. But you can stop them from wobbling!
M80W perhaps
Weeble shaped speakers for anyone who remembers that "Weebles wobble but they don't fall down."
I dunno, they've got to be more stable than the M50s or M60s. The heavy woofers are lower.
I've found that the 80s and the 60s tend to lean out at the top whenever placed on carpet, which of course would make them even more wobbly ... U.S. Quarters used as shims placed under the two outboard rubber feet cured this problem for me.
Rick,
Love the Avatar, still mis SRV. Riviera Paradise is one of my test songs when auditioning speakers, and the M80's passed this test very well. I'll try a couple of Washington's under the outside feet and see how that works. Thanks for the tip.
U.S. Quarters used as shims placed under the two outboard rubber feet cured this problem for me.
First I wondered why they had to be U.S. quarters but then I realized that if they were Canadian quarters, the beavers might eat the wood.
I didn't mean to discriminate Andrew, the U.S. version is all I could find floating around my abode that fit snug under the rubber feet of the speakers. Is the Canadian and U.S. quarter the same size? How about if we stated that the North American variety of the 25 cent piece placed under the rubber feet of these speakers makes for great shims?
Just think, I used to save those things for gas money.
Brucks, glad to see that you enjoy Stevie Ray .... 'Riviera Paradise' is an awesome song to show off the system as well is the studio version of 'Little Wing'. Welcome aboard!
"Little Wing" is by far my favorite. Love his take on it.
Don't worry, I wasn't concerned. I actually just wanted a lead into commenting on how we can never lose in a coin toss.
Heads or Beavers...... snicker.
But then I decided it would be in poor taste. So umm, don't read that.
[quote=RickF] Is the Canadian and U.S. quarter the same size? /quote]
Close enough that they seem to be interchangeable up here although some vending machines may have problems.
U.S. quarter is 24.26mm dia and 1.75 thick
CDN version is 23.88mm dia and 1.58 thick
The only thing you really need to fear is the dreaded Poppy Spy Coin.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,270413,00.html
OMG!!! That's funny. I had never read that story.
Yes, they are a special nano-technolgy designed to report back the precise GPS coordinates of any vending machine they enter that is filled with beer instead of soft drinks. We then deploy elite special forces teams to, welll.... drink the beer. Beware!
No such thing as "break in"
, according to the Axiom...
I have very thick pad/carpeting in my rec room/HT and the 80's do feel a little uneasy, but have never fallen over. My kids have learned to STAY away....
There is one burn in that they can not deny, the personal brain burn in, that works everytime you change from one sound to another, from one presentation to another, you need time to get used to the new one, in the remote case they want to dismiss the driver burn in, the personal burn in, could never be dismissed...
I'm enjoying now the M80's as never before, and I had a few problems at the begining to get adjusted to them coming from the M3ti's...So in someway that worked my way, not sure if it was driver burn in, or my brain burn in, but definitelly something changed...
BTW any other option rather than those expensive outriggers to place under the M80's, I mean they cost twice as much as a decent speaker stand, and they used just to flat bars of steel and a few holes...Any member here has any DIY inclination that could help us out???
Excellent point. Am finally becoming comfortable with the speakers. Am finding that some of the break in is just me coming to grips with the fact that my new system makes poorly recorded music sound like poorly recorded music. I'm finding lots of mud in the mid and lower levels on some of my CD's that I never heard before.
Am listening to Led Zeppelin II right now (Moby Dick) and am about as happy as a pig in shit, so I think I am now in my happy place with my M80's! Would still like something to stabilize these guys with, I feel like they are going to fall over at any time.
Would still like something to stabilize these guys with, I feel like they are going to fall over at any time.
I just ordered some
outriggers which I hope to get next week. I ordered the 12" ones and they're much cheaper than the
Soundocity ones. I will post my thoughts once I get them.
Would still like something to stabilize these guys with, I feel like they are going to fall over at any time.
I just ordered some
outriggers which I hope to get next week. I ordered the 12" ones and they're much cheaper than the
Soundocity ones. I will post my thoughts once I get them.
That is what I was loking for, thanks, keep us updated in how thye look, and perform, talking about stability, nothing else, also why not getting two 12 and two 10, the speaker is not straingh and maybe that will give a more apealing look...
Please keep up oosted about that....
That is much, much cheaper. Shipping's a killer, but... Love the rest of the snake oil on the site, but hey, if this thing works, great!
Tell me about it Ken, I had concerns with making the order and laughed at some of the products. Shipping sucked as it was $45 something.
The sealer was that I went to a local metal fabricator to cost out making them and he just laughed saying that steel prices were so high that he couldn't do it for less than the soundocity onces.
It's too bad that it's a US holiday as it delays my arrival!! Looking forward to see how these work out. I also bought the 12" all around to try and keep as wide as a base as I could for stability.
You do not need to do it out of steel, if you use let's say 1/2" thickness, it could be done in aluminum, it will not bend so easily...
Hmm, I have lots of pieces of steel lying around from different things. Could easily make a set in an hour with the ol' grinder and tap & die set. Course they wouldn't be pretty but maybe there is a market for low end braces.
Now, if I just buy a plasma cutter........
HAY any news about those outriggers??? How they look, and how they work? How is the finish, any imperfections, or they are well done, etc...please keep us posted about all details, that seems ot be the most feasible way for us...
Sorry, been busy and I plan to do an update tomorrow.
All in all I'm very happy with them, they give me peace of mind with clumsy guests and little ones in the house.
The only issue is if you get the 12" ones like I did the holes do not meet up with the M60's stock holes...argh! Measure twice...or at least once
I would still suggest the 12" ones though as you want a wide base for stability.
I ended up finding a local guy who was great and he milled the brackets for a case of beer and they fit perfectly now.
I will post some pics tomorrow...
Why not getting a 12" and a 10" per speaker, that way you follow the shape of the enclosure...also do you know if they will match the M80's?
I thought about that but I wanted everything to be the same.
If you look at the speaker straight on then the 2 stabilizers are in line. If you look at it from the side the one in the back looks longer. I just wanted to get the spikes as far out as possible to get them as sturdy as possible. I'm not sure if having a shorter one in back would affect this or not?
On the website, they give detailed measurements of everything for the outrigger. I just figured they would fit the 60's and didn't measure the 60's as I knew these were the cheapest to find and I would make do.
From a quick look comparing the speakers the towers are all 9.25" wide...
Definitelly they will not fit stock to the M80's...
The m80 are 6-3/8 inches appart in the front holes, and the back are aprox 4-3/4 inches, do you know if they are willing ot customize them???
Never asked them about customizing them but I'm sure for a price they might...it cost me a case of beer to get a local fabricator to mill them and he did a great job. Clean slots with no burs or anything. The one thing I forgot to take a picture of
At any rate, here's some pics of what I got...Wouldn't it be sweet if Axiom made some and they had the logo too?
Box with my address on it at least 3 times, making sure I got it!!
This discription had me worried...
Packaging - There was air bags in the box that deflated, sharp spikes
Unwrapped
Unwrapped another angle
Installed - Front
Front - Close
Front Left - Close *Man I love the High Gloss Cherry*
Front Right - Close *High Gloss Cherry, so sweet*
Full Frontal - Need to get Center Stand...
These new Outriggers really do help make my M60's sit level and feel sturdy. Any light nudge and there fine. Bumping into it for the most part is okay, I just hip checked (like a good Canadian boy) mine and it moved but was in no fear of going over.The wider the base the sturdier it will be and these are sturdy now, I have peace of mind.
This all started as I was never that comfortable with how my speakers stood. Recently, I caught my right speaker (in time) when I bumped it while doing some re-wiring and that prompt this purchase. Before installing the Outriggers my speakers never sat very well and were way to wobbly. My speakers are on carpet with under pad over a concrete slab bassment floor. The floor is not level for drainage and they guys who "levelled" it didn't smooth out a few spots...of course where the speakers are located.
As for the cost, more than I wanted to spend, but cheaper than replacing a damaged speaker. The Outriggers were $45 each, shipping to Canada was just under $50 and then my friends at customs wanted another $14 bucks. As mentioned before the holes did not line up so I had them milled for a case of beer $33. So for a grand total of $277ish dollars they were expensive for us Canadians but probably not so bad for you Americans as you would save around $50 bucks. As well, you could get the 10" wide ones that would be a little cheaper and only 2 would need to be milled to fit the back speakers.
Oh yeah the competition Soundocity was $129 a pair (64.50 each) for the ones I looked at, and shipping was around $50 so a total of about $322 including my friends at the border charge. Also there should be no need to customize these ones so no milling fee or case of beer for anyone so a total difference of around $45 bucks. Giving this knowledge now, I may have just gone with the Soundocity ones but I wasn't expecting the mill work to be done or the border charge.
At any rate, steel is pricey and these 2 products seem to be the only ones out there unless you can DIY, they are good but are they worth it to you...to me yes.
Very nice job, very nice indeed, I sent an email yesterday to them, let's see if they are willing to customize them...I like them far better than the Souncity ones, the Souncity made are not even that sturdy to begin with...
By any chance the thread of the spikes they provide match the one Axioms offer (1/4-20) Accordign ot the pictures they look bigger...
No they don't match, the spikes are one piece and threaded at the top for levelling and much thicker than the Axiom ones. Even though the spikes are shorter, they are able to anchor themselves very well.
I've started the earliest steps in building some Maple and Black Chrome outriggers for my M60s.
Hoping to get them done in the next week or so, but I've said that before and stuffs pops up on my TTD (Things To Do) list....
Just in time to help me with my CD jewel case photo. Please see thread on compilation CDs in Hearing Things. Free Lobster and Beer and if you do it on the July 1st time frame you can also photograph Collective Soul, Billy Talent, Our Lady Peace, and the Tragically Hip, just to name a few!! Cause I know you like to do that sort of thing....
OK, I'm kidding but hey the offer still stands.
Seriously, if you love rock coming from your Axioms, here is a plug for our annual summer festival. This is by far, the biggest concert line up ever in Eastern Canada, East of Toronto anyways.
3 Night Concert Lineup.
Well it seems that they are not wiling to customize them, at least not what I want, to make two slots, one on each size...so given that I work in the glass industry, I decided that will try to make a CNC machined platform out of 1/2" thick tempered glass, that IMO will look even better...But here is my next problem, is there anybody here that has a drawing of the bottom of the M80's speakers. I got a problem in my back, a disc in the spine is busted, and to move them for me is a big problem, and may need a help of a friend, etc...I asked Alan about the CAD drawing some tim ago, and never got it...
Guys I really appreciate any help...!!!! Depending on the price and the look I will consider making them in the future...
Sov-
I just about finished my wood outriggers when my neice and nephew came to visit for the week and work came to a halt. I'll be installing them after they leave this weekend and will draw/upload an image of the speaker bottom with the threaded insert locations for you before Monday....
Crap.
Just realized that you're talking M80 and I've got M60s....
Sorry.
Well, not really. Actually, I haven't listened yet.
I finally found a few hours to get the new speaker feet done to replace these:
(They're starting to stink as they are a couple of years old and I don't think the Hobo had great hygiene to start off with!)
This was my original plan, but many pointed out that taking a chainsaw to the M60s above the bottom woofer probably wasn't a good idea....
....and this is what I ended up with:
I have to decide how to finish them, but I'm leaning towards am ebony stain that will let a little of the grain show through (Maple stock). I set up the spikes to give me another couple of inches of height (M80 Envy, maybe?) and to tilt them back a couple of degrees.
If anyone wants more / better photos, I can post them to a seperate site...
I love those, count me in for a set for my M80's please, I could provide the dimensioning or we could twist some arkms in Axioms to get the drawings...
Those look great, Mark! Well done.
Hey Sov:
I wasn't planning on going into production with them, I just figured I'd post to give others such as yourself some ideas...
Nicely done! Glad to hear that veils are departing.
And to think, you turned down a set of these many moons ago, and your veil could have been parted as well.
Now you're just all veily.
Please you have to make a set for me, no questions...OK...PM or email me, for the details, I will not accept any excuse... :D...
I'm emaling all the Axiom staff to see if I could get the CAD drawing with all the dimensioning of the M80 bottom right now...Please!!!
I wasn't planning on going into production with them, I just figured I'd post to give others such as yourself some ideas...
What if our idea is, unanimously, for you to go into production with them?
They look beautiful, Mark, like everything else you've custom-built for your home theater.
Very nice Mark, excellent work.
I was planning on trying something along those lines. Unfortunately, with limited tools, skill, time and the HG Cherry finish I just decided to break the bank instead. Good on you for coming up with an excellent solution that should be much more cost effective. Get ready for all your orders!
Thanks Hay (and others)!
I can't claim that making these myself was cost-effective. The two spike sets were around $50 (
Parts Express) and a couple of maple blanks were somewhere between $20-$25.
I also put in probably 4 hours labor so far, and will put in more to finish them.
Plus, I kinda bought a jointer and spindle sander for this project which added abother $700...
I just enjoy woodworking and liked the idea of them being wood, custom fit to the angle of taper from front to back. etc... Unfortunately, it took me a month from jointing the blanks smooth.....
to get to where I was yesterday, and it'll probably take me two weeks to where I can remove them and finish them!
Wood shop porn. Droool.....
Wood shop porn. Droool.....
I'll second that.
I'm seriously considering buying my dad a table saw for Christmas. Of course, I'll be using it all the time. . .
Get him a deWalt. Those are sweet.
Just checked out the website. Those look nice!
<sarcasm>If you really love your dad and want him to keep his fingers, then you should pony up for this bad boy:
http://www.sawstop.com/products-cabinet-saw.htm(Check out the hot dog demo)
I'm not being totally serious, but if your dad is liable to pull an Emo Philips in UHF...
Shoot, it's not gonna work. Most of my projects involve building with hot dogs.
Plus, I just saw the price.
My response to that video is unprintable.
Since I like to do all my woodworking naked, that table saw is gonna be a life saver.
Plus, I kinda bought a jointer and spindle sander for this project which added abother $700...
... or you could just have picked up some maple 1x2 from home depot ($6.00) cut to length glue two together to get a 2x2, mark and cut curves with a jigsaw, clean up with a rasp and sandpaper.
But where's the fun in that? Its a good thing your wife dosn't watch the woodworking channel.
Just be glad they didn't demo it with a dado blade.
... if your dad is liable to pull an Emo Philips in UHF...
Whoopsie!
Boy, is my face red!
One of my top ten movies of all time! Big surprise, right, Ken?
Yeah, mine too.
Hey, good for him! They look a little narrow, though.
We have done extensive audio testing and can not find any difference in sound quality when adding the outriggers to the Axiom M80’s.
I just about fell over laughing.
We have done extensive audio testing and can not find any difference in sound quality when adding the outriggers to the Axiom M80’s.
I just about fell over laughing.
Well, indeed as you know there is a lot of voodoo in audio, and same as the spikes, or adding blocks under the speakers, supports, place them in "magic mats", bricks, blocks, etc...that are part of that audio mythology, if you follow that same "logic", that will not be a surprise to me, at all, that any will find improvements, or may believe, or expect, that the sound will change (or improve) with that addition.
IMO he (or she) is just clearing things before any misundertanding arises.
Even though if the height changes, and the distance to the speakers is not big, you may notice changes due to the new position of the tweeters and being more "in" or "out" of axis.
I contacted the guy and it seems to be a nice fellow, tomorrow he will send me some pics of a black oak finished set, maybe I will jump on it...
I wasn't planning on going into production with them, I just figured I'd post to give others such as yourself some ideas...
What if our idea is, unanimously, for you to go into production with them?
They look beautiful, Mark, like everything else you've custom-built for your home theater.
Here's my vote!
Worfzara is a forum member here and Canadian as well. I hope thing work out for him with this venture, although I think Mark made his first, has the patent on them and can now sue him for TM infringement for using the word 'outrigger'.
The Man is a Monster, I tell you!
Good day
I am not supposed to use this forum for advertizing, don't want to break any of the rules, so I am going to be carful here.
Yes, I agree, Mark's home made riggers were excellent and very pleasing to the eye, but not easy to make. The amount of milling required would sig. increase the time and cost for manufacturing. The other problem is that Mark's are custom made for his M60's and are not easily transferable to other makes and models of speakers (not that I am advicating that any one buy anything other than Axiom). With my design, all I have to do is change the mounting holes to milled slots. This would open up a much larger market.
After my 3 year old daughter tipped my M80 a few weeks ago, I knew I had to do something (no dammage to speaker, but wall need some attention). The steel ones I researched on the web are very functional, but my wife and I didn't care for the look.
FredK, I am glad you enjoyed my disclaimer. But you never know who is going to buy our product, and I wanted to set the expectations up front.
I am not planning to quit my day job here, at least not yet. Just wondering if there is a market for this stuff?
Paul
Paul, I am sure you will find there is a market for pretty much anything out there, whether you could quit the day job to do it is another story, but kudos for the effort and BTW, they look great. Any better close up shots with out them mounted to the speakers?
I am painting up some in flat / mat black for Sovkiller right now. The ones on the ebay are in semi-gloss. I think the flat will work better with the standard colour Axiom offers, especially the black Oak that Sovkiller has.
I will update the ebay pictures later this evening after they dry, and include some close up's without the speakers attached.
Stay tuned.
Just a note, the semi gloss black is a tough colour to take photos of. The gloss reflects the flash on the camera and other light. They really look much better in real life then they do in the photo's.
Thanks
Stay tuned.
paul
Axiom doesn't offer anything like these?
Ok, my wife and I are going to see Jeff Dunham here in London in early Feb. I love the avitar!!!
LOL at the avatar.
I saw a patient today who works at a concert venue. She got to see Jeff Dunham recently. She climbed up on the lighting scaffolding and laid down on her jacket. Pretty cool.
Worf - personally, I'd be interested in buying a pair, but they seem to be priced a bit high for me to take the plunge.
It could just be that I'm not your target customer or my problem isn't severe enough at this point to justify the cost, which is fine with me. Just thought I'd let you know my 2 cents. Take it or leave it, no offense taken.
Jason
Thanks Jason
I sent you a PM.
paul
Well actually I just asked Paul for some more info and some closer pictures of the Matte finished, even while they look nice i feel that they will not match the black oak 100% as he stated the finishing is different, so what about something more contrasting, like a different color or finish, not sure...
Even though, I'm interested in something more customized, like the one Mark did, as logic indicates for the manufacturer point of view, versatility is a good thing, but from the end side to have something really customized is also very good...
How about to do a group buy to get a better price ordering more units, I somewhat agree with Jason about the pricing, we get into Axioms looking for "bang for the buck" speakers, and that was the same reason I never jumped in any of the other options, as all were more expensive that this one...it makes no sense to spend 100 buck in a cosmetic thing, as I do not have the problem of tilting Paul had, and I have no kids...
I am just curious here and for the record I have a degree in Manufacturing Engineering.
The higher the volume the lower the cost. The more complex the design of the product the higher the cost. This is the reality of manufacturing.
Your product is only worth what the market is willing to pay for it. This is the reality of business.
The idea for the business is to get both realities to work together to turn some kind of a profit.
I can pretty much make any design, will it be cost effective, attractive and functional, these are critical questions.
I never intended this to be a get rich quick thing, just a way to make a few extra bucks on the side.
So let me please do some market research here. Realizing there are material costs, time costs, and advertizing costs. What would you expect to pay for a set of four of my riggers.
Keeping in mind that steel ones can go for as High as $270 on the web?
For the record, I am not advertizing my product here, just making conversation. Again, I don't want to break the forum rules.
Thanks
Paul
...it makes no sense to spend 100 buck in a cosmetic thing, as I do not have the problem of tilting Paul had, and I have no kids...
Please Sovkiller, no disrepect intended here and I totaly respect oyur opinion, but as a socity, I belive you are incorrect here.
People will spend huge amounts of money on cosmetics; pretty much every industry selling consumer goods charges more for products that are more cosmetically appealing than their base model, even Axiom does this. You want a nicer looking M80, you pay more, even though is sounds the same as the one from the factory seconds. This is because the humans have been conditioned that there is a link between good looks and quality. Many companies not only profit form this philosophy, they count to stay in business.
...it makes no sense to spend 100 buck in a cosmetic thing, as I do not have the problem of tilting Paul had, and I have no kids...
Please Sovkiller, no disrepect intended here and I totaly respect oyur opinion, but as a socity, I belive you are incorrect here.
People will spend huge amounts of money on cosmetics; pretty much every industry selling consumer goods charges more for products that are more cosmetically appealing than their base model, even Axiom does this. You want a nicer looking M80, you pay more, even though is sounds the same as the one from the factory seconds. This is because the humans have been conditioned that there is a link between good looks and quality. Many companies not only profit form this philosophy, they count to stay in business.
Sorry let me rephrase my post:
"...it makes no sense
for me to spend 100 bucks in a cosmetic thing, as I do not have the problem of tilting Paul had, and I have no kids..."
I know and understand what you say and sorry if you misunderstood me due my lack of a better phrasing, sorry as I was not clear enough. But honestly if my thing were to spend money in cosmetic good sounding audio gear, honestly there are far better options, as you stated, even inside the Axiom line.
Let's say that the standard line of Axiom speakers (the ones I own) are for the ones who like good sound with a minimal spenditure, I was not even able to afford those very nice hi-gloss finished speakers from them...
You and I are in the same boat. I can't afford the new finishes either. Or maybe a better way to put it is I have other things in life I need to spend money on too, like food, mortgage, car, etc.
The only way I could afford what I got was to get factory 2nds, and actually drive to the plant to to save a few more bucks on shipping. I am just glad the standard finishes are really really good.
BTW, I have inspected all of my Axoim speakers and have never found the "issue" that made them a factory 2nd.
paul
No worries.
People will spend huge amounts of money on cosmetics; pretty much every industry selling consumer goods charges more for products that are more cosmetically appealing than their base model, even Axiom does this. You want a nicer looking M80, you pay more, even though is sounds the same as the one from the factory seconds.
Paul, Don't forget some of the higher price is, in fact, due to higher production costs. The Custom vinyl is not in high demand so they are not mass made as the rest, it takes a little more time to set up for a run of custom speakers, granted I think the price could be lower but Axiom is here to make money and will charge what they think people will pay, same goes for the Vasollo series, much more labour intensive, so there is a basis for the higher costs of Axiom speakers.
I think that the seconds are just samples, customers returns, etc...I retunred a pair of M50's while I was deciding between the M50's and M80's, they were new, just opened them, try them, and place them back on the same box...
It doesn't say that.
Axiom Audio products go through a very extensive and demanding Quality Control process. Even the slightest blemish or element that may not even be noticable to the eye can cause the product to be unacceptable as a first. While our manufacturing facilities and processes are of the highest quality and reliability...the fact is that a few of our speakers just don't make it through our rigorous quality / appearance acceptance criteria.
This creates an incredible value opportunity for customers who are not stuck on absolute cosmetic perfection.
The products offered here may have a slight blemish, but they are absolutely PERFECT in every other aspect of their sound performance ---- they have absolutely no operational problems or sound performance issues, and come with the same 30-day Money-Back Guarantee and 5-Year Warranty on all our products.
SOV, you are incorrect. Axiom does not resale returns via Factory Outlet, they are new speakers that have minor possible nicks/flaws discovered during QC.
OK, do not stone me alive, then would anybody can tell me what they do with the returned items? Just discart them? I'm just stating what constitutes a very common practice around, they call them: "open box", "B-stocks", etc....call them the way you want, but I will not beleive that they discart them...
Also as Paul have stated I have ordered myself a few times seconds, and they were perfect, no blemishes of any kind, not sure what they founded, and trust me that I'm very picky, and I'm saying they were just perfect...
It has been mentioned the returns are sold to friends, family etc of Axioms.
It has been mentioned the returns are sold to friends, family etc of Axioms.
Guys consider me as a very good friend for the future if you have any EP500 in black oak around.....
I think we have all tried that one
Yep refurbished, b-stock, open box, etc. is different than new speakers with nicks/blemishes with full warranty.
Yep refurbished, b-stock, open box, etc. is different than new speakers with nicks/blemishes with full warranty.
In all those cases the items carry full warranty as well...
What is the difference between an open box returned after two days of use, in pristine condition, and an speaker that may be in the factory the same time opened, for inspection and reinspection...and then placed in the box, therei s more dust in the factory than in my home for sure...
The difference is the brutality of shipping on those speakers that have been in your home, more chances for something to be knocked off, broken, cracks in solder joints opening up, etc.
The difference is the brutality of shipping on those speakers that have been in your home, more chances for something to be knocked off, broken, cracks in solder joints opening up, etc.
If this happen, what about if this do not? Not always you have those unfortunate cases, also that brutality you are talking about could happen in the way to you, and IMO if properly packed, that should not happen.
Axioms pack very well BTW, and we can use, to send them back, those same boxes, at least I did, if you discarded them, $10.00 for a set of boxes is not that much in my book...
What about insurance, that way if they break, they pay...period, do not tell me that does not work because I know it does, I have received some insurance reimbursement from brutality in a couple of cases, one of them I even kept the broken item, which later on I fixed it...
You can't always see the issues that might be started by improper handling, the more times a speaker goes through shipping the more times the circuit boards and wiring are subject to un-necessary bouncing around which could lead to issues later on.
People will spend huge amounts of money on cosmetics; pretty much every industry selling consumer goods charges more for products that are more cosmetically appealing than their base model, even Axiom does this. You want a nicer looking M80, you pay more, even though is sounds the same as the one from the factory seconds.
Paul, Don't forget some of the higher price is, in fact, due to higher production costs.
You are 100% correct, and they are more desirable to have (by most people, me included), which justifies the increased cost.
As the guy on the Toronto radio station says "Happy Capitalism!"
I remember when I was up at the Axiom plant, Joe told me that the returns go to friends and family of Axiom employee's.
My first thought was, Oh, there must be an awful lot of friends and families that get really cheap speakers. Then I remembered how good Axiom speakers sound.
In actual fact, Joe told me that most friends and family members fight over the returns, because there are so few of them.
Which makes sence, if Axiom had a high return rate, they probably wouldn't be in business this long.
pn
Strange, but in a way this policy is as close to empirical evidence of the quality of the Axiom line as we are likely to get. Such a small company could not afford to eat the returns if there were many returns. Thus, you can presume not many people feel compelled to use the return policy.
Or maybe they just check them, make sure they are fine, and then sell them as new. With a 5 year warranty, it is not like that would be unethical. From what I have heard about the management, I'm willing to believe they just don't have many returns in spite of their return oriented business model. Impressive.
I'm sure that you know that these have free shipping BOTH ways.
http://www.aperionaudio.com/ReturnPolicy.aspx
I wonder if Axiom adopted the same policy, they would actually sell more. However, I am sure the current policy discourages tire kickers with nothing to do on a given weekend. You order form Axiom, you need to be serious about buying speakers.
I am sure they examine there business model every once in a while, and the competitions.
However, as more online speakers companies start to offer free shipping both ways, to stay competitive, Axiom may have to adopt the same practice.
pn
To be honest, I do not believe that the returns may be so few, as some of the members point out, maybe I'm wrong, but that could be an exceptional rare case in the audio business. Axiom as any other company, that has a generous return policy (as a result of non having a brick and mortar stores) will have returns for several reasons, beginning with simply not liking the sonic signature, or not filling the space properly, wife disapproval, or improper placement, or maybe lack of knowledge from the person who ordered them, etc...I'm assuming they should have all kind of customers, as any other company in the audio business...And their selection is not so small to begin with.
In my case for example was not because of non satisfaction, was because I ended liking the M80's to the M50, I was wondering how many of us have done that, order two sets of different ones to see how the thing develops and keep the one that pleases you the most, and I ordered both after owning my M3ti for years, which they also took back as a trade/upgrade...Something that may affect them more is the non presence in stores, where people can go and listen them first, and have a rough idea of what to expect.
So we have several cases of returns:
-Returns due to non satisfaction at all (simply the customer liked another brand better).
-Returns due to the selection of a higher grade of speakers from their same line.
-Returns due to trade in which may be also in pristine like new condition, even after several years of use.
-Returns due to defects and damages due to improper shipping/bad handling.
So if you just add one of this cases per month or more, you will have roughly like 50 returns a year, in my book those are not that few honestly...
In any case as a double offender of their generous return policy, you can count me in to keep on doing it, BTW Alan I still owe you a dinner, but if you get any EP500 black oak in good shape, just gimme a shout....
Sov, I don't know if it's been mentioned, but some returns end up on Axiom's eBay store.
So I am checking ebay and run across this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Axiom-Audio-EP600-Su...%3A1%7C294%3A50Why would this guy NOY simply return this sub to Axiom?
Because he bought it "a few months back," which is outside the return period.
Not to mention, "a few months back" depending on what "a few" means, was probably right before the financial world went upside down. My guess is that like the rest of us here, there are now more important things the seller can do with another $1,600 than he could when he placed the order.
Jason
I guess I missed the few months back part and saw "so this one was never opened. Its still in its brand new factory sealed box!"
Can't imagine why it took so long to realize he didn't need it and never opened it.
Maybe he was finishing his basement.
Given that I will also likely have an EP600 to sell in the near future, I'm curious to see what he gets for it.
Jason
Sov, I don't know if it's been mentioned, but some returns end up on Axiom's eBay store.
Sorry but I was not aware they have one, from now on I will keep an eye to see if I'm lucky enough to get a matching sub there...
Re: auction. Some people crack me up. No reserve, no bid, but the price is $1,400 and change. Um... thats a reserve.
Its funny how this outlet store thing comes up every so often. When I got my stuff from the outlet store, I gave it a good once over and couldn't find anything wrong with them. About 2 months in, while staring off into space, I noticed a small (the size of 3 pinheads) blemish on the side of one of the M80s. I could feel no difference in texture, so there was some sort of discolouration flaw in the vinyl. I would have to look hard to find it again.
Who cares if someone auditioned them, laid them on the floor, had wild sex with their neighbour on them and then sent them back to Axiom. As long as I can't see anything significant wrong, they sound like they are supposed to, and they carry a full warranty I figure I got a good deal.
Wolfie. It sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the cost benefit tradoffs of your outriggers. I hope you are able to make a go of it.
I wonder if you could do some co-marketing with Axiom since it is a complementary product that is a custom fit for their speakers.
After some trial an error process, finally I decided to give the try to the glass stands. I didn't find any wood stand inside my budget, and if I was going ot spend those ammounts I was asked, honestly I would rather go for my initial idea of the 1/2 glass, and given that I work for a huge glass company, as a CNC programer (among other things) Here is the final outcome. Sorry for the quality of the pics, but I'm a lousy photographer, and truyst me that I'm far better with Photoshop than with a camera, so here I go...hope you will like it and will give you some different ideas. The cost of those pieces, if you are going to pay what they charge for them is not budget friendly at all, I got a very good price, given that I'm an employee, but even though they were not cheap at all...
Hey, they look very nice. I'm impressed.
I agree. Those are quite nice, and they even follow the taper of the cabinets.
I really like the look of those! Good job.
Nice job, Sov. They look very professional.
Thanks guys, trust me that thosep ictures do not do them justice, they indeed look gorgeous in front of you...
All I did was to follow the shape of the cabinet, and added an extra 1" overall around, later on added the tabs for the spikes. There are some restrictions while working with glass, given the size of the tools we have, and also as I was thinking in tempering them, but later on decided to take them annealed, as that will make the holes too big (for tempering holes must match the thickenss of the glass, and to have 1/2" holes did not look nice)
The speaker is also mounted in the rubber stock feet on top of the glass, and the spikes are also mounted on top of another set of the same rubber feet. Maybe later on I will sit them directly on the glass to see if it looks better, but all I was looking for was a little more height, and I got an extra 3"...
Really nice job there. My wife likes 'em too. So are the M80s bolted to the stands? (You probably said and I missed it...)
Really nice job there. My wife likes 'em too. So are the M80s bolted to the stands? (You probably said and I missed it...)
Yep they are bolted, using as standoffs the rubber feet that came with them...then the spikes are on top of another set of rubber feet, to gain even more height, a total of roughly 3 inches...I will try to get some chromed standoffs later on, intead of the rubber feet, to make it more solid and vibration free...
Excellent job Sov. So when are you going to start selling them?
Thye ase very expensive ot get done in US, maybe if you get them from China, that will be a bargain, the machine we use is an Italian CNC machine, it is very exoensive, like 150.00/hour machine, add glass, tempering if needed...Each one takes more than one hour to get done...go and figure...but if maybe we get some orders like a bigger quantity, they can consider a lower price, even though not sure how low they are willing to go....
Very nice Sov, I like how we're getting all these different options. We now have metal , wood and glass
All we need now is for Axiom to start selling something similar!
All we need now is for Axiom to start selling something similar!
Not sure why them have not decided to go for that yet, that was a thing that I was after fro long time, even while I had the M3ti, the stands they provide are not os sturdy as they should be, at least they could do a lot better...Honestly with the excellent performance of the spekaers they made, and some of the finishes they have (keep in mind that mine is one of the worst) those glass stands, or any other, will look terrigfic and will provide a lot more support at the narrow/tall cabinet configuration...difinitelly they will be more eye candy...
Axiom does already have operations in China. I wonder if Alan will read this.
Axiom does already have operations in China. I wonder if Alan will read this.
If they need CAD drawings (DXF files), I will be more than glad to create or modify them for Axiom, even while I'm assuming they will have peope for that, I think that there is no harm in volunteer for that...
Wow, I love those glass stands. I just added them to my 'unexpected winfall' list.
Really like those stands.
I'm trying ot get the standoffs of stainless steel or chromed, and some bigger spikes to avoid using the rubber feet...let's see how it ends...After that will go for the all glass audio video rack!!!!
Going chrome won't take you home!!!
Oh wait, that only applies to to 4x4s.
/digging this post out of the past
Did anyone on here actually start producing and selling any similar products?
Are there any other readily available consumer products other than Soundocity and the Mi-Stand?
How sturdy is the M60 or M80 naturally in a wild toddler environment?
Where toddlers are concerned, I would advise getting some outriggers to stabilize the speaker better. I would also add, that the surface the speaker is sitting on also makes a difference. Personally I feel that a hardwood floor and rubber mounts are more stable than spikes on carpet, but either way it would be a good idea to use some outriggers if you've got curious carpet crawlers.
There are always "strings attached". If you check the Aperion website this "Free Shipping" both ways deal only applies to within the "Lower 48 States". Axiom being a Canadian company that sells all over the world with much of its business in North America, quite frankly, I realistically don 't see how this could be economically feasible.
/digging this post out of the past
Did anyone on here actually start producing and selling any similar products?
Are there any other readily available consumer products other than Soundocity and the Mi-Stand?
How sturdy is the M60 or M80 naturally in a wild toddler environment?
I would highly recommend outriggers if you have the speakers on carpet as I did. I messed with the spikes many times and couldn't get the speaker sturdy enough.
Once I got the outriggers the are super solid. Mine aren't the prettiest but they ensure my HG Cherry is.
Have you seen MarkSJohnsons that he made? They look great, perhaps you could commission him for a set or the plans.
Wood Outriggers
One of these days I need to make some, those both are awesome looking. One kinda techno, and the other kinda mission style.
Sovkiller came up with a sweet set too, but I can't imagine they would be easy to replicate and the cost???
Easy to replicate? Yes, I still have the DXF files for it, and the BDF for the machine, now they are indeed very costly, I did them more as a project, and to test my capabilities in programming the CNC. As an employee with a very special price, I ended paying around $150.00 for them both, these are made out of 1/2 clear annealed glass, done on an Italian Bimatech CNC machine, routed out, and Pencil Polished, and with 8 drilled holes in each..Spikes were an additional $20.00 a set from Part Express, plus some other stand-off hardware to use the covers, and two sets of Axiom rubber legs on each speaker...
I had forgotten about those glass beauties. I bet you could sell them regardless of the price, there are many with more money to spend than I.
Has anyone already suggested outriggers in the "things we'd like Axiom to make" thread ? If not, I guess we should.
I had the great idea of bolting some 1x2s to the bottom of the speakers then screwing the feet into the 1x2s, but after looking at the beautiful work above I don't think I'm going to be able to get away with that any more.
Nice, clean, and simple. They look great!
Very nice. I believe Axiom is missing out on some sales by not offering a set.
I wouldn't mind something like that. MY m80's are a little wobbly with the spikes on the carpet.
Rocking them back and forth until they hit concrete will help. Then they'll be solid.
Every time I play with toe adjustments, I have to go thru this. Until the spikes hit concrete (or something solid), the speakers will actually lean a bit - drives me nuts.
Scott
What's the little steering wheel for, then?
What Hay said...it looks very nice..I wonder what the cost to make one of those....winter project
What's the little steering wheel for, then?
A more controlled path to nuts.
They could probably get them done in aluminum which would save on shipping and also look pretty cool.
I forgot to mention that the 4 of these weigh 15 lbs .
Almost dropped them when friend handed to me .
Hi , does anyone know what the distance between the feet insert holes on the M60's.
Thanks
