OK I continue to have problems that I suspect are due to the 663 (an instance of wild popping, let's move on and skip the whining, and for the sake of moving forward accept it is most likely a weak link) so I desperately need to replace it as a pre/pro, making my plan of using the 663 as a stand in until the 997, 972, or UMC (? new emo) are finally released and evaluated completely un-viable.

Disappointing but hey I have Axiom speakers and I'm happy about that.

In the interim I have become even more impressed by the 3808 especially the feature upgrade which I suspect will hit the sweet spot of what I am looking for even if it may not be the absolute cutting edge, hey there is no such thing anyway, except for a few seconds if I'm not mistaken.

Not too sure if 6ave will honor the avs forum discount anymore in any shape or form, yet I am pretty much bound and determined to purchase the 3808 (damn the torpedoes and my poor credit cards) mainly because at this point I desperately need a reference point to rule out the processor as contributing to these problems (and hope for divine intervention to eliminate them all so I can happily progress from seemingly endless troubleshooting to the domestic bliss of pure enjoyment in combination with the inevitable disease of tweaking, yes I remain a realist, despite all indications to the contrary).

My question, finally is this: are there any other preamp/processors I should be considering at this point to run my system, keeping in mind that I like what I see in the 3808 feature set and desperately need something that is absolutely GUARANTEED (sorry I needed that shout) to work with Axiom.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
SK

You didn't mention a budget, but you might want to also look at the yamaha reviewed below, first yamaha that gets a perfect score, note the stellar low ohm driving capabilities...

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/rx-z7-7.1

I was thinking about the 3809Ci, but that yamaha Z7 sure looks nice...

Dana

re: "My question, finally is this: are there any other preamp/processors I should be considering at this point to run my system"


Depending on your budget you might consider Anthem.

http://www.anthemav.com/

SK you have the A1400, Yes? Then I would look to the 2809 as long as you don't mind losing the GUI, the networking ability and you would be saving in the process to put towards the Outlaw or Emo pre/pros later on when they are avaialble and then the 2809 could go into another room. I would also consider an Onkyo 875(6), 905(6).

I was quoted about $1,000 on an Integra (lexus of Onkyo) 8.9 this weekend. I think it has the ISF video section and killer upscaller, so it would be a great pre/pro with huge multi-zone capabilites if you have another amp. Seems like overkill for a pre/pro, but companies just don't want to fill the void of pre/pros. The Integra 9.9 Pre/Pro lacks the amps of the AVR 9.9, has the same features, and cost the same. WHAT? It should be $500 less and I would get one today. Anyway, good luck.

Also look at the new Cary if you want a Pre/Pro.

Thanks for the suggestions guys, interesting bunch of equipment, I've decided to go with the 3808 because I couldn't beat the features/price ratio at the moment and think the networking capabilities will be welcome, BTW 6ave is still honoring the avsforum member discount price of $1099. Woo hoo!

All,
I am curious on new receivers as well. As many of you know from my other thread, I am currently waiting on my in-wall/on-wall W series of speakers to arrive (I will post pics as I go!). I have not purchased my AVR to drive this setup yet, but have the Pioneer Elite SC-05 planned for this purpose. However I notice that most on this forum seem to have or mention the Denon AVR's. I am curious if anybody has experience with the Pioneer SC lineup vs. the Denon? I chose the Pioneer based on brand familiarity, looks and feature set I liked (good power, home media gallery, ICE amplifier - plus my sales guy's recommendation). My local shop also carries Denon, but I never really looked into them. Would anybody strongly recommend revisiting this topic? Since my speakers won't be arriving until late March I have until then to make changes and second guess myself!

SatKartr, I'll be interested to hear your experiences once you're all hooked up.

I'm a huge Pioneer fan; owning their last Elite flagship DVD player, the DV-79AVi, their current top of the line non-Elite receiver the VSX-1018AH-K, and their last 50" plasma the PDP-5020FD.

I (this is a personal opinion) question Denon's value for money. There's no doubt they build good equipment, but I think at this point part of the price is the name on the box. A real glimpse at the way their marketing department thinks is in the fact that they are selling a $500 Ethernet cable--that's just offensive to me.

But if I were in the market for a $1500-$2000 receiver in the next couple months, I'd really be looking closely at the Sherwood Newcastle R-972 ( http://www.sherwoodamerica.com/site/newcastle/receivers/R972.html ), which Axiom will be selling when it becomes available.

And I'm not just recommending this because I'm an Axiom fan boy either. I found out about this receiver because of Outlaw, and only later discovered that Axiom sells Sherwood Newcastle equipment.

The 3808 gets a lot of love because some people prefer the Audyssey room correction to Pioneer's implementation, and because of the ethernet streaming and associated GUI. They're probably both fine pieces. I think the Denon manuals are unintelligible.

Denon receivers are a good choice for M80 owners, because they don't have problems with 4 ohm loads. If you're not getting the in-wall version of the M80s, I would say Pioneer is as good a choice as any.

cb, if you like the features of the Pioneer there is no reason not to choose it.

The 3808 came last night, hooked it up today, have sound coming out of the speakers, that may be enough for now, until I have time to dig in to the feature set.

BTW the feature upgrade currently is free if you buy the 3808 now through March 31, although originally the cutoff was December so they may continue to extend the rebate offer if you purchase after that.

Well of course I have run audyssey and programmed the harmony one remote, so far the results seem pretty nice, I was afraid of the manual from all the horror stories I had heard, however I must admit the basic layout of the manual, gui, and remotes (used in tandem to get all the hard buttons) was actually better than the 663 manual, gui, and remote.

Having trouble hooking up 3808 to the home network, I get the message from the Denon "network problem," no additional info provided. I have run a quick search, "3808 network problem" on Axiom forum SE and standard Google and come up with nothing much. Can anyone point me to a thread where I figure out what's up? I am running an AT&T wireless gateway (wired/wireless modem/router combined in one) and attempting to access the network via a Netgear powerline ethernet adapter.

BTW don't I need to be connected to the network to get the firmware update/feature upgrade or can I download to a usb stick and transfer that way.

Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions,

Well, there's your problem.

Seriously, those things are notorious for causing trouble. Have you tried connecting a laptop or another computer-like device to that jack, something which will give you a little more feedback as to the nature of the issue?

Another thread here that recommends the powerline adapters, I've always used with no trouble, I tried turning off upnp on everything because supposedly that's an issue, turned of the firewall within the modem to the 3808, now I get "connecting . . . assigning network . . . network problem," the 3808 is visible from within the modem itself.

Well I'm frustrated with the network issue yet pleased overall with first impressions, I think once things are sorted out I will be happy to have some real features, so to speak, I mean the Yamaha wasn't completely lame and did diagnose that one of the rear surrounds was out of phase (bonehead installers, what you can do, the center was wired out of phase too but I figured that out myself because I had to monkey with it for some reason), can't wait to get the feature upgrade and internet music, Denon is closed at the moment so that will have to wait.

As far as the new receiver advice question, the only feature I feel I would still want was some way to combine the auto eq with tweaking by ear, that's one of the reasons I have been holding out. JohnK states that on the 3808 they are mutually incompatible, your choices are either 1) auto parametric eq, or 2) graphic eq tweak by ear. Interesting because the review of the 972 on audioholics of the October 2008 demo of the 972 stated, to paraphrase, well the auto setup sounded pretty good but of course any serious HT enthusiast would want to followup and perform additional tweaking of the settings by ear. It was not clear to me if the 997 or 972 Trinnov implementations will allow tweaking of the auto functions, but if they did that might be a nice, if not killer or must have, feature. Academic for me as it turns out due to technical difficulties I was forced to abandon the wait and the 3808 will be my processor for the foreseeable future.

Well to our eye this evening the video on the 3808 was noticeably superior to the 663, crisper, more vivid, and the dvr is again working properly (not breaking up, long story that I will share if it turns out the fix is actually in, haven't even broached this one, 2 tb external hard drive). Well time will eventually tell but things are looking up.

OMG this unit is so cool, it's so freakin' cool (and I don't even use that particular adjective), sorry , and now back to your regularly scheduled programming . . .

Are you talking cool as in its heat output? Otherwise, specify a feature.

Ooo how concrete of you, haven't touched it yet, since I'm not using it for amplification, hadn't thought to do so, but by COOL I meant I'm liking the video a LOT more, maybe someone who studies these things could tell me if the 3808 has better processing than the 663 (I did make another change to the dvr today, damn, it's so hard to test only one thing at a time when you're supposed to be working yet instead are accruing guilt while attempting to please the fam by upgrading the entertainment center ) the audio is also better so the combo is floating my boat but as you know the audio piece awaits more testing/verification yet overall seems promising as well, things are looking up, finally . . .

I'm glad to hear it. Out of the woods is such a nice feeling.

You're telling me!!!

Not sure what JohnK was referring to, but the 3808 has a feature that can copy the EQ curve and allow you to tweak it from there. You can also tweak the speaker levels on the fly giving you modified EQ (logo without the box displayed).

You have to be connected. It can't be just downloaded.

OK, thanks for the info, especially regarding the potential to implement EQ curve modifications on the 3808, I must have misunderstood.

Moved the cable modem/router so I could plug directly into the ethernet port, no improvement, called Denon and they state I need to disable upnp in the router, att states there is no such feature in the router, am unable to find any such feature in the router's menu of settings, perhaps the two units are incompatible?

Another day, another day of troubleshooting . . .

Mark, although the language in the Denon manual doesn't make this clear(surprise), the Audyssey curve can't actually be copied to the manual equalizer and then "tweaked". For example, Chris from Audyssey replied to a similar question here . The available equalization choices are the Audyssey curves or the relatively crude manual equalizer or no equalization. There's no option to use them in combination.

Well thanks John for the followup clarification, I suspected same since I assumed you'd already researched, btw do you happen to know if 972 will allow such feature?

Sat, as far as is known, no specific information is available as to what implementation of the professional Trinnov processor will be made in the 972. Frankly, it would seem rather unlikely that the very complex Trinnov processing would be subjected to being screwed up by user adjustments(misadjustments?).

I see, so it's just a simplified FR curve that gets copied. Still, a fun toy to play with, with some starting point value, "crude" though it may be.