got a new amp and nothing... the subs work, but I'm no where near impressed! I'm listening to reggae right now, and I have the sub volume at max, and the 3808 at 12.0db for the sub (max) for that source and I'm not getting anything to say wow at!

This sucks.. I'm thinking something happened to the driver during the transport (my sub took a big detour... all that traveling probably didn't help).

At least the service at Axiom has been nothing less than stellar so far! Spoke to Brent tonight and he's going to see what can be done. When I told him I had the sub at max and wasnt feeling much he told me that wasn't normal.

A few more things - the sub only seems to give any "juice" when I've got the volume on the denon above 0.0db! And that's with the sub volume at max! That's just ridiculous... oh well, I'm thinking I'll take a road trip down to axiom and test one out before bringing the next one home. All I can say is if this is what I can expect from the sub (which i'm sure it's not), I'll be using the money back guarantee and I'll get an HSU sub... Those Thump!!

The other thing I wanted to mention is the big pop/thump/whatever whenever I turn off the sub... and that's even when I have the sub volume at zero, no music playing, and the denon's power off. Is that normal?

I'm totally bummed! Was really hoping to get this up and running.

That sucks. There is definately something wrong with your sub.

No doubt, I'm sure Axiom will make things right.

The turn-off thump is normal for this sub, the lack of thump when playing is not. If you live anywhere near Indy, please PM me for an audition on March 6th with Micah.

Majik,

I'm almost positive this won't work... But.

Try turning the sub off... Big thump.

Wait 15 mins, then turn the sub on and try again.

I've found that there is a some sort of protective feature on the subs with mine, and when I turn them off, I have to wait about 10-15 mins or so for the amp to come back on.

I hope it works.

What would that be protecting against?

Are you sure the sub-out on your denon is not at fault?

Hey thanks Roode, but I live in Canada (northern Quebec). I pretty much figured something was wrong. Just sucks. But like Rick stated, I'm sure Axiom will make it right.

terzaghi, I highly doubt it. it works fine with my JVC HTIB sub... which has more thump than the 800 by the way.

Just wish I could audition one.

The "thump" sounds like a loud clip, and I'm wondering if the amp itself has some sort of trip circuit built into it for protection. If it were thermal based, it would reset itself in time.

All I can say is that if I turn off the subs, I have to wait several minutes before they "work" again. The light comes on, but there is no amplification. If I wait, then turn them back on, no problem.

I've had a few subs in my time. A M&K three different Hsu subs and Wharfedale and none have ever had that happen.

Interesting. I know, for example, with HID lighting, that once the lamp is turned off, you need to wait for it to cool down before it will re-start. I wasn't aware of anything in an amp that would require a cooldown, but then I know very little about electronics.

This sub issue is causing me to lose sleep! lol! I laugh, but I woke up at 3:30am to do a search on the net... nothing.

Majik, don't lose sleep. This is a new product and you clearly got a bad one, either through damage or other problems in production. What you are describing is not a performance issue. Two drivers in a box that big with even a crappy amp would give a significant thump even if built in my garage. It would not compare to a good design, etc., in critical listening, but Bob Marley would be shaking some stuff. And we know Axiom can make subs, the ep500 and 600 owners have made that clear. Just write this off as a pain in the arse in life and try another (assuming you don't have to pay shipping). I'm guessing the next one will rattle Bob's dreads as expected.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

I agree with the nicotine-addicted baby.

Not *all* HID lighting works like that. Automotive HID (Xenon) headlamps do not require any kind of cooldown/restart period. None that I've ever encountered, anyway.

But back to topic...
Neither my old Kenwood sub, current SVS, nor my Emotiva amp has any sort of 'power-off-timeout' feature. None of them produce any thumps when turning on or off either. I've certainly heard of amps going into a thermal or circuitry protection modes, but never anything like this.

Where's Alan when you need him?!

Hi Majik,

I regret you're having problems with your sub, however, I'm certain there is something very wrong or disconnected. First, if you are curious or so inclined, you could remove each woofer from the front baffle and confirm that the speaker wires are attached to each driver. This sub normally has huge output, and it might be that one woofer is disconnected. And there are no compatibility issues with the Denon's subwoofer output, so the fault seems to lie with the Sub.

Reconnect the wires if any are disconnected to either of the drivers, and try it again. Otherwise, call the toll-free number and we'll get a new amplifier off to you.

Regards,

Hi Peter and all,

The turn-off thump is an issue we've learned about from Owners Club members and has been addressed with new code and a capacitor. The EP800s when they are offered live on the Axiom site will have the new code and no turn-off thumps. When the new code is installed, all you hear when you turn it on or off is the click of relay.

Existing amplifiers without the code will be replaced.

Thanks,

Just curious Alan, what is this 'new code' you speak of? Is it software code?

I think it can be decoded with some sort of ring, procurable in a wheaties box...

firmware update that is done at Axiom, can't be done in the field.

JaimeG,

Yes, as Sir Quack has noted, the code is custom digital code that Ian Colquhoun and Tom Cumberland write for the DSP chip in the EP800. The code controls driver excursion, anticipates and corrects for any frequency response deviation away from ideal linearity, and because it's programmed with the maximum output capability of the digital amplifier and the maximum excursion of the two drivers, it "knows" when distortion might become audible and limits the upper output and driver excursion so distortion never rises so high as to be audible.

The "intelligent" DSP chips are in Axiom's EP400, EP500, EP600 and EP800 subwoofers. An original custom code has to be written for each different model.

Regards,

I'd like to have one of those chips so when I drink beer, my distortion does not become audible. Just whenever, Tom and Ian get some free time.

Ha, ha!

Well, it was definitely the sub. I connected it to my onkyo to see if that made a difference, and it did. I finally got "respectable" bass but it was rumble.. not thump - no thump at all really. And this only when I turned the music up real loud and had the sub volume at 12 or 1 o'clock.

Then today, the heartbreak... I went to test it again at lunch on the onkyo and I got nothing to write home to mom about for 2 or 3 minutes... some bass but it was just rumble once again. So I turned the volume up to Max, and I about 5 or 6 seconds in and heard a funny sound, then smoke coming from the back of the Sub... smelled like something fried in there. This is killin' me here. I don't know, maybe I'll just send the 800 back and forget about it, get my money back and wait a while before getting another.

Don't sweat it so much. I know it's a lot of cash but remember that it is an Axiom product. They will stand by you and make it right. I guaranty it.

I was getting ready to pull the trigger on two of those monsters and started reading this thread..........I'm a little worried about this now since it seems there is an issue that has come up with your second sub. I also have an Onkyo receiver (TX-NR905) but unlike you I don't live down the road from Axiom....I live in Florida. For now, I'm going to wait and watch this thread to see how goes it.

this just seems to strange to me, others have had no issue with the 800.

Now that it’s smoking it might be to late to mention this but has anyone suggested checking the drivers wiring to see if they are hooked up out of phase.

I think on his first thread, someone mentioned he might want to verify the wiring by carefully removing the drivers, not sure if he did, or if that would cause the problems he is facing, must not have been the amp, if this is a replacement....hmmmm

Perhaps a bad driver shorting out the amps? I don't know, that's pretty strange. Axiom knows how to make subs and this aint rocket science. (amp to speaker in box i mean, not amp design, driver design, etc)

Yeah, also I'm sure they check them out before they ship them...something is fishy.

Well, I said it before and I'll say it again, the customer service from axiom is SECOND TO NONE! I am VERY confident that they will make this right.

As someone stated, others have had no issues and I believe them. Something is obviously wrong with the one that I have, but that happens sometimes.

As for the "something smells fishy" comment... I'm hoping you mean that something must have gone wrong in the building phase; because even though I may not know much about audio gear, I DO MY RESEARCH before making a move I'm not sure about or, at the very least, I'll come here and ask other axiom members first.

when I changed the amp i followed instructions to a T. Even called axiom first to make sure it was right. I KNOW I don't know much about this stuff, so I don't just jump into something without checking.

Look at it this way, there are thousands of well made products out there... hundreds of thousands can be sold before a defective one can be found. Axiom equipment is great... I love the M80s... but I'm sure there has been a problem or two somewhere along the road! no?

Absolutely, you did nothing wrong here imo. Just got a bad one, simple as that.

Yeah, I don't think he was implying you were fishy, just that in response to my question about the drivers shorting out the amps, and the unlikelihood of that, that something does not make sense as there are few components in the string here – amp, driver, box? They will get you straightened out and get Bob's dreads rocking. (Bob Marley that is; no Bob/001 this is not a slight against you or your hair in anyway. Breath deep and move on, nothing to see here.)

Yeah, I was talking about the sub itself, something is not right. But I was hoping he liked fish, lol.

lol! ok, ok... I guess I'm a little self-conscious when it comes to this things... I'm so used to getting that accusing look from the customer service sales rep as if to say "I know you MUST have done something wrong.. it's definitely you're fault...". I guess I get a little defensive, without even needing to be.

I can tell you this, I set my denon to SUB: NO today and played with the settings and damn! I'm getting better bass than I did with the 800! The thump was amazing!! Bob was thumping like mad!! After experiencing that, I can't wait to get the 800 up and running; because if the M80s can do that...

oh yeah, and I love fish! just finished eating two salmon fillets!

Walleye for me tonight. Yeah the 80's have some pretty darn good bass with no sub in the equation.

Axiom most definitely will. I knew going in to buying the EP800s that I was basically buying a beta product (it's still not for sale to the public, but according to Alan it will be very soon). I bought them knowing that there may be some bugs, but I also knew that Axiom would handle the problem with no questions asked.

When I bought the EP800s, about a week after they were delivered, I got a call from Axiom asking how the speakers were performing, and then was asked if I could take some time to help them out by answering some questions on performance and quality. I was more than happy to do that. How many times have you been called internationally to get information to make a product better?

When I first got my M80s, I broke a speaker stand spike when moving my speakers around (my fault). I called and asked is they could send me a new one (I was willing to pay for it). They did better than that, they sent 2... for free. It's small, but those little things sometimes mean a lot.

With the EP800, we already saw Alan's post saying that anyone who purchased them early, will get replacement amps that will eliminate the pop when turning them off. I also, without asking, got 2 PMs from Alan to help me out and let me know things were being taken care of. This was even without me even calling Axiom, or asking for any assistance. Incredible.

It's only been about a year since I've owned Axioms. I now own 11 of them, and will buy only Axioms in the future.

-Steve

I just checked the products/sub menu and the EP800s are now listed. the color/stain changer is not working but they are on there now for $2350.

Any chance of getting them at the factory outlet price..I don't mind waiting 4 weeks if it'll save me a few bucks since I intend on buying an entire system

You may have to wait a while before they become available on the FO. I remember the EP350v3 took a month or so before it was available.

It may make you feel better to read this review from my experience with the EP800. It will make you feel decidedly better. Trust, me, the EP800 is a big slice of subwoofer nirvana.

It's still a beta project and some of the "testers" are experiencing as the bugs get worked out before final public release. To me it's a normal process and I'm glad to hear that Axiom is making it right (no surprise) for the few people who were unlucky with their initial orders.

Jason

Has anyone checked the products page? The EP800 is for sale now
to the public

Any word Majik?

Well they're ready to send me a new sub but I'm going to wait until I take a drive down to see friends and pick it up myself. That way I know it'll get here safe and sound. If I can't get away before April I will have them ship it and I will return the one I have now.

It's amazing how simple they are making this... almost an "it's too good to be true" except it IS true! I too, will only buy Axiom from now on!

Has anyone had to return a Sub to them? How does it work? One of the reasons why I want to bring it down myself is the cost of shipping.

Axiom should cover return shipping, call and confirm. This should cost you $.000000

Agreed. You should not have to pay for shipping either way on a $2K+ product that never worked. If so, you have effectively paid more for the ep800, which is different than returning the product and eating shipping as a form of insurance if you don't LIKE the product. Defective is another animal all together. When my RPTV crapped out, I did not have to ship it to China to get fixed. They came to my house. Axiom can't come to our houses, but they can pay shipping for defective products.

no shipping on warranty items, only if you return something you don't want within the 30day window.

You can ship it back to them for free as the others have said, but I would have them hold off sending you one and pick it up yourself, this way you can tour the factory, try out the sub before you leave and know that when you eventually get home, everything should be perfect.

I returned a sub once as I was going that way and I didn't want Axiom to have to cover the cost.

You can call Noreen and make arrangements to drop it off most likely to the shipping area, which is where you'll pick up the replacement.

I've picked up 2 orders at the plant to ensure my stuff came in perfect condition. Make sure to pre-arrange a tour.

.... And when you get the tour, be sure to take your camera and post pictures here!

Yeah... since Adrian didn't.

will do. I'm hoping to be able to get out there sometime at the end of this month, but realistically I'm looking at Mid-May for my road trip (I live about 1000km, yes that's one thousand, away from where they are located... but as I've said before, it'll give me a chance to visit some good friends I haven't seen in a while). I'm REALLY going to try for March though... May seems SO far away and I WANT MY SUB!!

Majik,
Vie gehts
I'm in U.S., so may be KPH challenged, but using a calculator, at average speed of 80 kph (50mph) that would be 12 hours of drive time! Wow, in Canada, just up the road is quite a spell! Of course, just as realistic/ real world is to pop down to your Canadian version of Radio Shack or Fry's Electronics and pick up a cloaking device. They are kind of hard to find, because they are actually in a 'cloaked' section of the store. And knowing how useless the help is at Fry's, good luck getting anyone who even knows that they have a 'cloaked' section! Geez...

Gee, you don't happen to have an 'autoban' where 160 kph is just cruzing, do you? Oh. That's right, Canada has French links, not German, dang. But I guess with that big sub, to comfortably cruise at that speed, a Carrerra, BMW 750 or MB S500 'pickup', would also be helpful. A 6 hour drive would not be so bad. Especially in such a nice 'truck'!

PS. Any chance of getting some German roadway influence between now and your road trip? If your political representatives are as helpful as the Axiom factory (like down here in the U.S. :D), this may be a viable option... just sayin'

Good luck on how ever your road trip works out.

Majik,

If you are worried about shipping damage with the second order, you really shouldn't be. My real rosewood M80s had some damage on one of the speakers, the box that it arrived in looked like it was dragged behind a train from Canada to California. The replacement speaker they sent me must have had special shipping or something, the box was MINT, no gouges or anything.

Just let axiom ship a new one to you, don't wait to go down yourself, if it happens again, Axiom will ship again...no sweat off your brow.

How's everyone doing? It's been awhile, busy with work, painting the house (the last ppl to live here had lime green walls!! what the...??? lol), as well as organizing a bunch of community-based projects for the kids in town.

Well, I haven't gone on my "road trip" yet and it doesn't look like I'll be able to get there anytime soon. So I think I'm going to have to have the second one shipped. Even so, I will end up going when I make the trip to Barrie to visit some friends.

I'll be posting some pics of my setup soon... you can let me know what you think.

Hope all is well with everyone! And oh yeah, "GO HABS GO!!"

I finally received the new ep800 and sent the other one back. Now I need some help

I have the denon 3808 and I want to setup the sub properly. I read the instructional guide but is there anything else I should know about before going ahead and crankin' that badboy up?

Dont forget to tie down all loose objects and to strap in before you crank the volume?

...and have a home inspector verify the structural fortitude of your home.

Let er rip.

The replacement amps for the EP800s came last week, and I finally had a chance to install them yesterday. First, I have to say I was shocked when I saw how big the boxes were! They were shipped in EP400 boxes, and each amp was bolted into a dummy speaker enclosure, with a with a cover screwed on it! To get the amp out involved removing 4 screws and 4 hex bolts. It was extremely protected to say the least.

Following the directions provided by Axiom, I decided to remove the amp from the EP800 I had more problems with first. In my original post I stated that I had the thumping problem when turning the sub on an off. Afterwards, I noticed that the left sub would make a flapping" sound during certain LFE parts of movies (The Nemo fishbowl scene being one of them, Micah noticed it as well during the audition).

When I removed the amp, I followed the directions to double check the wiring connections internal of the speaker to the 2 drivers. I wanted to do this anyway because I noticed that one of the drivers (top) did not move as much as the other (bottom). The wiring connections looked fine on the bottom drive (+/- on bottom of driver, AND +/- on top). When I looked up into the enclosure at the top driver, I noticed 1 wire was disconnected! I could not reach the driver from the amp opening, so I removed the top driver. Low and behold, one connection was disconnected on the bottom of the driver (-), and one connection was disconnected from the top (+). So, this whole time, the amp was only driving one of the drivers, and the top drive was acting as a passive radiator. I quickly reconnected the wires and tightened all connections. Then I put in the new amp. The other speaker's connections were fine, so I only had to replace the amp.

What's the verdict? Well, no more thumps when I turn the speakers on and off! Also, for the sub that had the connection problem, both drivers now extend the same amount when driven. The final test was the Nemo fishbowl scene... No more flapping during that scene!

Thanks to Axiom (and Alan especially) for sending me the new amps and reminding me to check all of the connections to the drivers as a precaution. I'm a happy man!!! Well, that is until I remembered I have to bolt in my old amps to those huge shipping enclosures!

Hi Steve,

Yippee! I'm so glad everything is working and thanks for the detailed description of replacing the amps and checking the speaker connections.

Regards,

Alan

Two thumbs up on the customer service as usual!

So the EP800 is a dual voice coil driver. Interesting.