Hello,

I am currently redoing my family room system and I am giving Axiom some serious consideration. I have heard nothing but great things about the products and the company for the last several years, so my interest has been piqued. I am looking for some honest feedback if possible. My family room is large...about 7000 cubic feet (22x18 and two stories tall, with the rear opening into the kitchen). I currently have NAD separates (T973 amp and T163 preamp...140X7 or 200x2 RMS) - I currently have them mated to Von Schweikert towers, center, and surrounds and a Servo 15 sub - quite simply, the system pounds hard, loud, clean, and is very, very good....HOWEVER, the wife has decided that she is over the large speakers in the family room, so I am selling them all and looking to get some in walls So...the only experience I have with in walls are some Paradigm Reverence series and they were very good....I noticed the reviews on the Axiom in walls (W22's) and I am intrigued. I know I have a large space, and I am certainly expecting a drop in audio quality, but that is alright....I just want good, clean, articulate sound, that can be cranked up when needed. If possible, I will be keeping my NAD electronics. My usage is about 70% tv/home theater and 30% music. Are these in walls going to suite me, or do you think I will be out to lunch so to speak? Thanks for your help!

Shaun, welcome. We can always use a second Shaun, to also join Sean and Shawn. The W22s, which are essentially identical in performance to the M22s(which I've had for over seven years), can provide quite a level of sound(especially with the low bass handled by a good sub such as yours)for listeners at typical distances of not too much over ten feet. Whether this sound level suits you depends on how loud you play the material, giving due consideration to avoiding permanent hearing damage.

It’s probably old age playing tricks on me again but hasn’t there been some talk of Axiom making a in/on wall version of the M80s?

I have M22s and M80s and feel the M22s with a subwoofer rival the M80s with a subwoofer. While I haven’t heard the W22s by all accounts I read they are very comparable to the M22.

If your willing to risk about a $30 return shipping charge (guessing based on the return shipping for bookshelf speaker) you could order some W22s and have a listen in your own room. Additionally if there are other brands you are interested in that also allow returns you could arrange to have them all shipped to you at the same time and compare them directly. You’re making a very big change so I think it would be worth spending a little time and money on doing some in home demos.

There are the T80s, but they are as deep as M80s and are designed for in cabinet mounting. Unless you live in a medieval castle or something.

There goes the plans for my new home theater. . .


Thanks a lot, Ken.

No, no, if you're in a castle, you're set. As long as you have something to cut out 2 feet of stone...

Oh, then I'm all good.


Hang on, I gotta go change the filter for my moat. . .

Thanks for the welcome. I think I am going to go ahead and at least order the W22's and see what they are all about. For $30 or whatever return shipping is, how can a person go wrong, right? I have heard over and over how the Axiom speakers are similar in sound to Paradigm Reference series (which is a good thing imo), so I bet they would match well with my NAD electronics. Thanks again!

Shaun,

If you find the time it would be great to hear your impressions of them especially if you do a shootout with any other brands. There are usually more inquiries about in/on wall speakers than there is feedback from owners and reviewers.


That was it, thanks. No doubt I’ll forget in a couple of weeks and make the same comment again.

Keep that up and Ray and Jack will be able to hassle you.

A medieval castle themed home theater would be cool….


Part of your welcome BTW is to have your first thread hijacked with a bunch of unrelated banter.

Cheers,
Dean

Does your drawbridge have a wheel chair access button?

Here are some pics just posted the other day of some of the on- wall speakers.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=262425&fpart=8

Have you had a chance to listen to them some more? Also, about how deep do they sit off the wall? I believe I need to get some ordered and give them a try

Oh yes! My castle is fully ADA compliant. The drawbridge actually flips up and will catapault you over the wall.

How comfortable is the dungeon?

I agree with both of Dean's (grunt) posts. We all love to hear about shoot-outs.

I wonder if you could do dual T22s if the single set wasn't enough in your room? I would email Axiom to see what they suggest.

Guess who got a new computer! Cam, I see a new Olympic event here!

I assume you are going with 5 W22's? If so, you should get plenty of sound to fill the room without having to run it too loud at the source - and SQ seems a pretty well established trait. Your only issue is room size and two W22s might not do the trick.

looking to do w22's for the mains, get the center, and possibly the sq8's for surround (assuming I sell my VS TS150's - very, very good speakers). Obviously I want to keep the speakers in the same family for similar tonal qualities, but if the VS surrounds do not sell, I have no issue keeping them (especially seeing as how they are $1,500 speakers!). I have already sold my Servo 15 sub, so I will be looking for a small (but potent) sub (possibly Seismic 12) or an in wall sub...the wife is done with the large speakers in the family room, so I have to do what I have to do!:)

If you have no issue on keeping your current surrounds I’d try out some other mains first before changing them. Many people successfully mix and match surrounds from other manufactures than their mains. Their distance from the mains and usually different material playing from them hide most tonal differences. The only time I’ve been bothered by tonal differences in surrounds I’ve used is during gaming when there are hard pans going 360 degrees around the room.

BTW subwoofers are not speakers. They are end-tables nice corner tables for lamps… Come on, there’s gotta be some angle you can work.

Well, here is what I am working with (I could shoot myself for not thinking about this 4 years ago when I had the house built)....here is a pic of my current setup - pics are from years ago before the rest of the house was painted, so please excuse the bare white walls:) ...you may notice the SLIM space I have between the windows and the fireplace????? That is where I need my new speakers to go (the W22's will fit in between there). Also, there are 4 2x4 studs running vertically (where the cutout above the fireplace is)...I cannot have a large in wall speaker in there, as the studs will be in the way...I cannot hack into them because this is a load bearing wall...also, the switches for fireplace controls are kind of on a stud, but the stud does not go down from there....it does go UP though, so mounting the speakers up higher is not really an option...well, I maybe could squeeze them in, but then my tweeters are 7 feet off the ground (not good!)..I dont think you can install the W22's upside down, right? (Since they snap into the mounting frame from the top). The sub has been moved closer to the right front speaker as there is now a 75G African cichlid fishtank in the righ corner of the room...As you can see, this is not an ideal setup, but the wife wants the speakers off the ground, at least until we build another house and I can have a dedicated mans room in the basement. The unique mounting characteristics of the W22's seem to fit well here...unless I am missing something???? What do you think?

First off, very nice room/equipment!

Second, ever consider keeping the speakers and upgrading the WAF? Can’t find a way to buy her off on this one…second honeymoon…gotta be something.


I don’t see why not. I’m sure you could come up with something to hold them in place. Might want to give Axiom a call and see if they have any suggestions. I’ve used M22 upside down on top of my M80s before and even an M80 upside down on top of my TV to keep the tweeters from being 7 feet high and it worked great. As long as it’s vertical I would go with whichever orientation keeps the tweeters closest to ear level.


Hang the suckers from the ceiling, or build small shelves where you plan to mount the W22s and set your current main upside down on top of them and tell her how much money you saved by not buying new speakers. Ok, now we’re learning why I’m not married anymore.

Seriously, the W22s should be perfect for your situation. The only question is if you like the way Axiom speakers sound and based on other things you’ve said it seems like you will. As you already are aware you’re going to take a big hit in sound quality and imaging by doing this so it might take some getting use to no matter what brand of speakers you buy.

Cheers,
Dean

Beautiful room! How big was that servo?? It dosn't look any bigger than the EP500. Two EP400s would work well in that room and they are considerably smaller.

If you are at all handy, I would seriously look at dean's side table suggestion. If you look through pictures on some of the DIY forums, there are some really nice sub builds out there diguised as real furniture.

I think Dean is on to the best option - WAF. Okay, she don't dig the black monoliths so much. Do you really blame her? Try letting her pick from a plate of custom wood finishes from Axiom. I have been shocked by the quality of the wood finishes Axiom offers. And having grown tired of my black boxes I added a real mahogany veneer, and i can tell you first hand it changes the room dramatically. Give that a shot before you butcher her walls and limit the sound quality with in-wall solutions. That is a lose-lose situation she must be uspet by! I would trade real wood towers for the sub...for now. A compact sub for HT can be added later, but good M80 towers will suffice for 958% of of your hT needs.

Option two - go German and take over Poland! When my wife got tired of the big TV and black boxes, I got tired of never eating in the formal dining room. So, I liberated the hostage HT in the dining room, and everyone was happy. One or two days a year I hear how a formal room would be nice for whatever event, but 7 days a week i think how nice the Man Cave HT is to have. Best move ever, and everyone is happy - Den looks nice with no stereo or TV equipment, and HT looks like an intentional room, not a frat house. Just added the final touch for the look - a projector. Never could have done that in the den.

Smoking Babies are pretty much always wise.

Hmmmm.. the "Always Wise Smoking Babies" would be a good name for a band.

Sure beats Chicken Feet, but I still like the "Deaf Monks on Parade".

Howzabout the "Smokin' Hot Monks"?

(Or does "deaf" HAVE to be in there?)

If you fail to consider WAF, you may experience a condition that's known by the same acronym. (hint: Wife Ain't _ _ _ _ in').

Who would want a wife that was fartin' anyways?

I'll take Regina any way I can get her.

Thanks...she has been pretty good the last couple of years with my whims and hobbies, and we have a 22 month old that is all over the place, so I am ready (in this house anyways) to go with something a little less intrusive. I will give Axiom a call next week and see what they think.



I think they will work well even though I have not heard Axioms before. I am very familiar with Paradigm, as I had a Monitor 7, CC370, and Mini system before the NAD/VS system. I was shocked when I took my Paradigm Monitor 7's into my AV guys place to listen to them side by side with Monitor Audio and the Vons that I ended up with - not a fair comparison, but the Monitors sounded like a blanket was draped over them. I have listened to quite a few Signature and Reference Series Paradigm speakers, and they (obviously) are a better comparison to what I have now and if the Axioms are similar to those, that should work out well for me. I listened to some in wall Paradigm Reference SA-30's (powered by a Denon receiver) in a room very similar to mine and I was very impressed. (Granted the imaging was not quite as good and the depth was not there, and the mid bass was thinner sounding) but that is if I am being very, very critical...I could easily live with those SA-35's and be quite happy (reason I am not going that route is because they will not fit in my space between the windows and the cutout). I doubt the comparison between the W22's and the Paradigm Reference SA-30's is quite fair, but this is used mostly for movies and tv watching with music in there during parties or when the wife and kid are out of the house...I gonna order some with the 30 day money back guarantee....you can't beat that imo, so we will see what happens

THat is the original servo 15 sub...I think it was about 21 deep 17 high and 17 wide give or take. I am not too handy, so building a table or something like that is out of the question I am afraid

She is over the box speakers in the family room...no way around it and I really don't blame her, plus my son has almost knocked over one of the VR2's when he was playing .

Option 2 - haha...I like it!! I have no other rooms to use, as we use the formal dining room when people are over and family in town, etc....I will be thinking more ahead when we build our next house...and my dedicated theater will be in a full walk out basement (not too many basements here in Virginia, and a $40k-$50k premium to have one poured and finished was not in the cards 4 years ago for us with our current house ).

Yes, houses are much simpler than tables! Ha ha.

Some people have done fantastic things with their attics, not sure if you have the room or desire.


Well bolting them down would solve the tipping issue but probably not the WAF. I hope you don’t sell them. At least if their in a nearby closet you could drag them out once and a while for when you need a fix.

Here’s a Hail Mary play. Get the cheapest crappiest sounding on wall speakers you can find and tune them so that voices are worse sounding than the TV’s speakers and ask her if she really wants friends family to have to hear that when the come over. Whether they want to admit it or not women (ok most men too) are big into status.

I just broke out one of my W's, they absolutely WILL work upside down. It's hard to explain online, but the speaker will lock either way on the bracket, I just tried it both ways and it works without an issue. The only thing I would be concerned with putting them upside down is the ports facing up and dust getting inside. Take them down once a month and give each port a good blow (insert joke here) and they'd be fine I'm sure.

The W22 body itself is 3 5/8" deep WITH the grill. Maybe add another 1/8" for the thickness of the bracket, but this is the amount the speaker will protrude from the wall. There is about a 3" deep cavity that will go inside the wall. Axiom says you need 1.5" to a stud from the outside of the bracket template in order to be able to mount the speaker. I thought this was for sound issues, but I think it's more because this is how wide the bracket is to clamp the wall. This 1.5" if you measure from the center of the speaker would be more like 3.25"

Thanks Potatoehead...that is exactly what I was looking for!

Another possibility would be to use W150s for fronts instead of W22s. I'm not sure how they would compare, but the possibility exists. Definitely ask Axiom about this option.

As for the Paradigm Monitors, if they were the original 7s, any Axioms will blow them out of the water, except in the bass department. There, you'd need a tower model. PMBuko, one of the members around here (and my former roommate), got Monitor 9s after I moved out. A couple of years later, GAF (maybe FAF at that point?) convinced him to get bookshelves, and he bought M22s, sound unheard. Blew him out of the water. I thought it was a bunch of snake oil, having seen Axiom's ads in various places online. Until I heard them. Wow. I've been a big fan of Axiom since then.

hmm...good call on the w150's..I will have to see if they will fit in my space and talk to axiom about that option.

I had the V2 Monitor 7's - I liked them and for the money, they were pretty good..it was just not fair when I blind listened to them back to back to back with Monitor Audio Silver and Gold series, and the Vons that I ended up with - the Monitor 7's were, as you said above, "blown out of the water", so if the same holds true comparing that sound to the Axiom, then that is great news! :). As soon as I make some exploratory holes in the wall with a drill bit and coat hanger, I am gonna get some ordered...I will just convince the wife that the Vons will sell sooner or later (as I do not need to keep them...I tend to sell something when I am done with it and buy something else...otherwise the wife would likely not be real thrilled with any of my hobbies! )