this is the last pieace i need to complete my ht . i have paradigm studio v5 20's, cc590 , axiom qs8's and for the sub i seem to be set on the def tech supercube 1 , has anyone hear herd one before , and if so what are ur impressions?

I've heard some DT subs and imo they're nothing to write home about. DT likes to exaggerate on their specs that's for sure. I owned a set of Pro 400s for a while and while they were rate down to 19HZ; using test tones there was nothing even in the 30HZ range.

I would look at the various on line companies, Axiom included.

I agree with Wid here, DT likes to fudge their specs with their speakers and subs. I think you can find better value as well. You should look at offerings from companies such as Axiom, ED, SVS, Aperion, HSU, and Paradigm.

Brandon, I agree with the previous comments, and am not particularly impressed with the DefTechs from a quality/price ratio standpoint. Maybe if you'd describe the specific factors that make you "seem to be set", some other possibilities better meeting those requirements could be suggested.

Pricing probably depends a lot on which side of the border you are on.

If you are set on a very small box, I would think that the EP400 or the sealed subs from Elemental Designs or SVS would be good competition for the Paradigm.

Yup. The only reasonable ID options in Canada are SVS (if you are close to TO and shipping isn't too much) and Axiom.

I'm quite happy with the EP350. It does not reach quite as low as some of the other ID subs close to its price, but what it does, it does extremely well: clean throughout its range and lots of headroom in the upper bass to give you good punch.

FWIW, in my room I get a flat response down to around 21Hz.

The 400 has considerably more oompf than the ep350 and looks to reach a little lower.

I disagree, the 400 might reach a little lower, not audibly, but way less oomph, at least in the experience I have had with them. That little driver just can't move the air enough to fill a room, well for HT,IMO.

I disagree about def tech fudging their specs at least from the products I have herd . The things I like best about the sub is the power and range it offers .
The store I buy from has paradigm def tech and b and w , I've compared it to all of them side by side and hands down killed them for music and movies , its only contender imo was the paradigm sub 15 which is outta my price range . I am not big on I'd companies although I do like my qs8 they don't hold a candle to the paradigm adp but at a 1600 price I had to make a sacrifice which turned out to be decent .

Has anyone compared a ep 800 to supercube 1 or reference , or any other comparisons to a non id companies I could go and listen to .

Have them run some test tones through it, see what it will do. I did run test tone through my Def Tech ProTower 400s and their numbers did not match what the speaker put out.

That could be a number of things such as placement , room acoustics or could be entirely true , what I am talking about is putting all the players side by side and really testing them which u can't do with id companies which is a turn off for me among other things such as crazy bs claims like these are as good as these and so on . I'm going to try and find some one in my area with 800 or 500 and listen for my self , but even that is hard to compare given different rooms and equipment etc

Guess all the independent reviews are BS as well...

Sorry I couldn't give you the report you were looking for. Looks like you were set on the DT sub from the start no matter the replies you receive here.

No not set entirely I would like to hear as many subs as possible before buying . I am very interested in the ep 500 600 , and 800 its just hard to hear them without dealers .
My main listening is music , so I need a musical sub that can also be great for movies which seems to be hard to find . There are many jack of all trades out there which is fine but I want a ace , any recomendations on subs that fit that are appreciated thanks guys , sorry if I came off the wrong way dave that wasn't intentional

Brandon, what you end up buying is entirely your decision. The guys here are giving you a very objective opinion on the question you asked reg "impressions of Deftech Subs". Rick has tested one and gave you the results of that test and from what I've read from other people(on other audio sites), it would seem that there is an exaggeration in dt's specs. The guys are trying to help you make an informed and objective decision, but if you've made up your mind already....

I don't understand this concept of musical sub. Can the sub reproduce the sounds or not? The sub doesn't care if it is reproducing an explosion or a bass guitar. A good sub is a good sub.

I agree entirely with what you have to say here. A well designed subwoofer is just that. The only reason what I would consider a "music sub" is a subwoofer that reaches only down to around 30hz -40hz which takes up most of the music spectrum but not capable of accurately producing the demanding low frequency material of home theatre.

A good sub is just a good sub. Nice one!

A musical sub is tight (doesn't blur the notes) and fast (doesn't sustain the notes longer than the program material). This would be more acceptable with explosions and the like than music.

A well designed sub can do both.

I use a Hsu STF3 (now discontinued) for my music system. I can with out a doubt recommend a Hus sub for a music only system. I have owned 3 different Hsu subs and they are, were, all great performers with music.

I still have two of the subs and a friend of mine has the other. The other two are Hsu VTF2 MK1.

I also agree a well designed sub can do both, music and movies.

I ment dewd not dave

Dave's not here man!

I'm not disagreeing, Dave. All musical subs should be in the well designed category, but certainly not all home theatre subs are musical.

Here is a good article that talks about the misconceptions of the "musicality" of subwoofers in detail.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/tightbass.html

Brandon, if you want an idea of what Axiom subs sound like try to listen to the Paradigm DSP series, Axiom subs sound very similar IMO and are extremely musical, more life like than most subs for music and they work great for movies with an extension down into the 20hz range and below for the EP800.

Thanks jake I've herd the dps series and they are great for the money imo . I think the best thing for me is to keep listening to more subs before I buy thanks for everyones help u guys are great , I'm going to see if axiom is open this weekend seeing how I'm going to be up that way anyway

Dr. House this article is right on point. A quote from it by Ian Colquhoun as follows: "If you really want “tight” bass, then you need to concentrate on the main speakers and amplifier combination because that is where those mid-bass frequencies are and should be generated."

INSERT SEMI HIJACK PASSAGE HERE
I used to have an SVS PCi25-31 sub and it was musical. Now I have an SVS PC-Ultra and it's also musical. In fact when I play my favorite concert DVDs they sound about the same. The main difference between the two is that with the Ultra I can hear (feel) low frequencies in movies that I never knew were there before. Plus it can shake picture on walls of rooms that don't directly connect with the room it is in. (Lord of the Rings, Return of the King, scene 53) And that pisses off the guy down the street who used to brag about his Martin Logan Depth 1 sub.

I agree with Dewd. The 8" Push/Pull M&K that I just sold was supposed to be a "musical sub" I did not know what I was missing til I got the 500. THe M&K was boomy no matter what sound it was reproducing - musical bass or volcanic eruptions. THe guy that bought it - when he contacted me said he was looking for a musical sub. I just smiled and took his money.

I was looking at the hsu vtf3 , does anyone have one ? Looks to be built well weighing 90lbs . Do they not have the turbochargers anymore ? I only saw them in the previous model section . I listened to the paradigm ultracube 12 today it was very nice for music but didn't go low enough for movies , any other recomendations would be great thanks

I run a Hsu VTF3 mkII. I'd say it's about 5 years old now. I use it primarily for HT now, but I have used it for music as well. Handles both very well--articulate while still being able to provide a punch.

I use a Hsu STF 3 with my music system. It sounds great to me with no boominess to it. It is no more than a higher tuned (22HZ) VTF 3.

I believe you would be very happy with the Hsu.

If you considered the Paradigm ultra cube and that price was not out of range and you are looking at Hsu, an internet direct company, I would highly suggest looking at the SVS PB 13 Ultra. It is a bit more money(when I was looking at subs) than an Ultra Cube 12 but well worth it, IMO. I have the PB13 and it hit 15hz in my room(when tuned to 15hz) and sounds great when I play music, all the reviews on it are not wrong.

Another option might be looking through Canuckaudiomart to see what is available used, I have seen the MFW15 available from a few listings and they were in Canada.

I would not recommend buying a used MFW-15. There has been a fair share of quality control problems with that sub due to amp failures. The warranty is not transferable to a new owner. Caveat emptor!

The SVS PB13 ultra is a killer sub by the way.

Good to know about the amp issues, I hadn't been following the MFw after it was realeased, only remembered it was touted as being nearly the equal to the PB13 for half the price.

Yes, the MFW's had an extremely high failure rate in the last year or so. So bad they had to do a partial re-design of the amp.

A single PB13 outclasses a single MFW in performance. Well worth the extra money for the ultra in my opinion.

I got a price for a ultracube for 1200 taxes in canadian from my dealer because I buy a lot of stuff from him but the price I got for a pb13 ultra was 1999.99 plus taxes . So if they were closer it would be a no brainer but its to much for me . I still really want to hear the ep500 , its the same price as the ultra cube . That's a hard toss up between them I'm sure . I would imagine the ep would go lower but I'm not sure seing how the ultra has 150 more watts and 2 10" passive radiators to make up for the smaller size . To clear things up small size is of no importance to me .

You can't compare the watts equitably, because a sealed design will require much more power (even with the passive radiators) than a ported design for the same SPL. Likewise, it is very difficult to design a sealed design that will go as low as a similarly-good ported design. Finally, the Axiom amp has extensive DSP capabilities. You owe it to yourself to listen to an EP500.

Not only that Tom but it also has to do to the sensitivity of the driver.

Yeah, but the DefTech goes to 11.

Okay, I finally looked up the supercube to see what I am missing.

First off, $1199USD is MSRP.

Second, they're quoting a FR of 13-200Hz. THIRTEEN? I don't freaking think so. Notice the complete absence of any +/- db in that rating.

Even The Absolute Sound review only claims "mid 20's" extension.

Plus, the damn thing wears a black sock.

Not for me.

Sounds like one of those old Sunfire True Subwoofers. 10 inch woofer, pair of 10 inch radiators.

DT's specs certainly do not conform to industry standards thats for sure. Whats funny, like you have already said is the first review DT quotes mid 20's extension and they claim down to 13. What I don't understand is why they would quote that on their website because that in itself shows that their specs are misleading.

I guess I could claim 3hz for my PB13 as that is about where it hits 0 on the REW graphs.

i found the canadian dealer for svs ,sonic boom audio . the nsd 10=$579 12 =$ 799 the plus 12.3 = $899 plus12.4 (new)=$1499 and the ultra=$1899 , i could streach the budget for the plus 12.4 < but how is the 12.3 anyone heard it

Save a few more months and get the ultra not that the rest are bad, the ultra is that good.

I'm drawing the line at 1500 max . I listened to the paradigm sesimic today which is basically a ultra cube with 1500 watts rms and a better driver and beefed up cabinet , big diff over the. Ultra cube

Imgoing to listen to the svs plus 12.3 and 12.4 and hopefully the ep500 . Any Ideas on where I can hear a hsu?

Here is a Hsu frapper map.

sonicboom just listed the new svs pc12 plus for $1049. pre order price . thats in my budget and i would assume get me all the bennifits of the pb12 plus for $500 cheaper . it has the same driver 12.4 and 575 watt amp . I dont mind the cylinder shape either . my questions are if the cylinder would sound different to the box and if so , how ? . and secondly how would it compare to the ep 500 which would be the same price < thanks guys

unfortunitly i got to the cottage late and couldnt make it to axiom < maybe next time

Brandon, I have the SVS PC13-Ultra. See my earlier posting on this same thread. You get basically the same performance for less money in the cylinder format. Many seem to prefer the box shape; but I'm like you and like the cylinder just fine.

i pre ordered the pc12 plus today and got a harmony one remote , which is nothing short of outstanding

so easy to use just great