hey guys it's van, back from enjoying my system i bought a couple of months ago.

i have the m60 vp150 and qs8's. For the sub Im using a definitive technology supercube II. the reciever im currently running is the onkyo tx sr 607 but it's time to go up the ladder.

im looking at the Marantz SR 6004 or the Denon 3310ci any advice would be appreciated.

?1 i've heard about the (POD) pops of death issues on the marantz, should that influence my decision

?2 denon sound or marantz sound or what reciever sound?

?3 im looking for real seperation basically. i like my 607 but can't help but wonder what a higher-end amp will sound like. my 607 sounds great, yet it sounds like one big ball of sound, where as to im looking for more of a distinc, thin, seperate kind of surround sound if that makes any sense.

i did hear at a friends house a denon 3805 he didn't have it calibrated but it had that thin, seperate sound to it, best i can describe it.

anyways basically im in the market for a great reciever and can't for the life of me decide. if anyone has any considerations and experience it would be greatly appreciated. all i care about is Sound Quality, must have new codecs dolby true and dts master. also im using hight speakers. ( i used some old onkyo HTIB speakers for the hights since they add some ambience but very little and the set up looks pretty cool) :0) 90% movies 10% music. I'll have it connected to 55'plasma, xbox 360, PS3, and Directv HDDVR, i don't care about zones i have sound in every room LOL

tx in advance.. AXIOM ROCKS

I doubt the upper midline you are suggesting would offer much more than your current avr. Personally I highly doubt you would hear much difference amongst any of the avr's you are looking at. You might have heard better SQ at your friends place due to better room accoustics or a speaker with more articulation than your Axioms or both. I would try taking your Onkyo over to your friends, spend an afternoon setting things up with your avr on his system and play some tunes/movies and see if you hear the same differences. If you do then you know that you need to look at the near top line avr's like Onkyo's 3007 or the 4310(the true replacement for the 38XX series from Denon).

dam! i kinda wanted to take baby steps LOL. i was hoping i would see improvment going up to the denon 3310. wow,....okay then. i'll look into the 4310

one more question though. just to get it right. there will be no Sound Quality difference from the 607 and the 3310, but there will be with the 4310. is the 4310 that much better in Sound Quality versus the 3310 or is it just added features like networking which i don't need? thanks jake!!!

The 4310 has a better power supply and DAC's than the 3310, this is where Denon can claim to be able to charge nearly twice the cost of my older 3808 compared to the 4310.

If the 607 has preouts you could simply look to get an amp and use the 607 as the pre/pro. You wouldn't get the new audio formats unless you buy a BR player that can do the decoding for you but the increase in clean power might work better for you with out spending a ton of money all at once. Once oyu are satisfied with the power output, you can start looking at a new pre/pro with all the bells and whistles.

Coming up for air? I had perma grin from the sound quality for at least the first 8 months after I picked up my system.

I pretty much agree with Jay. These days, receivers are of high enough quality that they just don't have a 'sound'.

I agree with Jay.

If the 607 has pre-outs, just get an amp. If it doesn't, then you need to spend MORE money to hear a difference, and even then, you might not.

You could try working with speaker placement and room treatment. Those methods might yield big results for less money.

Jorge, any receiver that has a "sound" is either designed incorrectly or is defective. Modern receivers amplify transparently without adding a sonic coloration of their own.

All modern receivers have far more than sufficient inter-channel separation. If you have some type of separation problem it has nothing to do with the receiver(if you have the settings correct), but instead either relates to the source material or the setup of your listening room(compared to the one at your friend's house).

The 3310 is an excellent receiver, but neither it nor any other amplifier will make any difference in the "big ball of sound".

I totally agree again. Well, unless you live in a square concrete bunker like me in which case you are beyond hope.

Seriously. Room treatments are something the vast majority of people totally ignore, yet, next to speakers, the room is the largest influence on sound.

tx again guys for the info. placement is already at its best considering the room, and i have some bass traps up, soft couches and carpet, the room is large and rectangular aswell. if anything i should push the back couche forward a bit but oh wells.

considering im in the market for a new reciever i have a few options based on the advice i got.

1. i found a denon 4310 on amazon for 1200,
2. 1299 for a marantz sr 6004 my local best buy
3. pioneer vsx 21 or 23 txh for 699 and 899 respectivly

choice one better DAC's power and all around good pic but it's used and buying online makes me nervous LOL (online used,amazon,ebay....you get the picture)
choices 2 and 3, have pre outs and at a later time i can get an amp. :0)

what whould jesus do.... i mean you do?

Is the Amazon purchase from Amazon directly, or from some dude?

I wouldn't concern yourself too much about "sound quality" differences between the AVR's, or separate amps. Instead, I would pay close attention to the features each of the AVR has and which one has the bells and whistles you would like.

Personally, I'd go with the Denon, but that's because I've had good luck with Denon and I love their GUI and feature set. I've had issues with Marantz and will eat glass before buying another. Pioneer, I have not owned since the early 80's.

side dude i think.. 6th ave

I agree with the masses. Unless you want to get into discussions around tube vs. digital or do I need extra wattage because I play ear splittingly loud, then I would be much more concerned about getting the features, inputs and outputs that you will need, than the 'sound' of the receiver.

Although I lean towards the more documented evidence that would tend to agree with JohnK, I'm not dissing the guys who guys who are happier with combo A vs. combo B. I'm just thinking that in a hobby where you quickly reach a point where the laws of diminishing returns kick in, you might be at the stage where you could get bigger sound results from other changes.

That being said, I wish I was at the point in my shopping list and my finances where I could experiment with amps, receivers etc.

All that plus all that being said, if you are ready to buy, I do enjoy my Denon. Several years now and with but one brief oddity after purchase that was cleared by doing a full reset, it just keeps working flawlessly. Hopefully, the manuals have improved though. They were obviously written by engineers whose time would have been better spent working on new products and components.

If that 4310 is from 6Ave, they are a factory authorized online dealer, I would buy the 4310 in a heartbeat for that price from them.

What Jay said.

I bought my denon from 6ave with no issues. I'd cOl them directly and ask for their best price though before buying.

Like David, I purchased my 3808ci from 6ave and got a great price when mentioning that I was an avsforum member, got me another 10% off the already great price.

Like many others, I got my Denon 3808ci from 6ave for a great price, authorized dealer, and no problems. But... you need to call them and mention that you're an avsforum member to get the best price.

-Dave

I bought a 50" Panasonic plasma through Amazon from 6th Ave... Transaction went well.

FWIW, I have the 2310 and I have been very happy with it other than sometimes it will pass through video rather than upconverting it all to 1080p like I have it set to... But if you turn it off/on it will go back to normal, not really a big deal. I do sometimes turn it right off (with the seperate power switch and not just the standy switch) but I am not sure if that has anything to do with it or not.

tx for all the advise guys! I ended up researching alot and have come to a conclusion about the sound thing. to make the story short i looked for something with pre outs.. so i got the onkyo 707. i was then going to go with an emotiva amp. but decided somehow that i would get some bass first. so i got the EP500! its a beatifull beast. i'll be getting the amp in a week or two then an oppo player. then thats it wheeeeew (god willing) :0),

been hanging out at the blue ray forums abit. helping with the axiom thread.. there are pics there of my stuff and others as well check it out.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/speakers/95875-official-axiom-speakers-thread-20.html#post3398855