vp-180 or xp-3 amp

Posted by: patwho

vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/10/10 11:02 AM

Hello all, I have 600 dollars to spend and i was wondering witch would make my home thearter sound better.The vp-180 or xp-3 amp? How do you access the owners club? I got a email form them, but do not know how to gain entry into the club? thanks for all your help!!
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/10/10 11:07 AM

Click on "Store", then "Axiom Owner's Club".
Posted by: BobKay

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/10/10 11:17 AM

Pat: Just to save you time, the guys here who can offer the most help (not me!) will likely need more info about what you're already using, where you hope to get, size of your listening space, etc.

There are so many knowledgeable people here happy to share their experience. It's worth checking in regularly for answers to your ?'s.
Posted by: Pitbull24

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/10/10 11:26 AM

I'm sure you will get plenty of responses, but only one person currently has a vp180. That being said, no one can provide you with technical feedback except Steve. On the other hand, you are inquiring about purchasing two different products which could change your system which we know nothing about. Why do you need/want an amp? What center are you currently using? Most decent AVR's(Denon, Onkyo, Integra, Pioneer) can provide plenty of power to the Axiom 4ohm speakers. If your going to spend $500-700 on an amp would it be an option to upgrade AVR's? I am happy with my vp150, but upgraditis would be my only reason for purchasing the vp180.
Posted by: patwho

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/10/10 11:31 AM

Bob Thanks, My system is m80's vp150, 2 qs8's, sr705 receiver.I know i asked a question regarding power amps a couple weeks ago. Some people said it would not help my system at all. Would the new center channel help.The sound is good from watching movies but i just feel that i am not getting the most out of my system.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Pat
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/10/10 11:34 AM

 Originally Posted By: patwho
Hello all, I have 600 dollars to spend and i was wondering witch would make my home thearter sound better.The vp-180 or xp-3 amp? How do you access the owners club? I got a email form them, but do not know how to gain entry into the club? thanks for all your help!!


Like Pitbull said, only one person has the VP180 right now so you may want to wait a bit. There are some with external amps though, and IIRC Micah has the Emo. More info regarding your room, setup, and listening preferences would help too.

Also note that going the VP180 route is actually less expensive given the trade in value of your VP150. That aside, I'd still wager to say (as I have no first hand experience with either product yet) the VP180 will yield more of a difference than the Emo, unless you are pushing your current Onkyo to its limits.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/10/10 11:48 AM

 Originally Posted By: patwho
Bob Thanks, My system is m80's vp150, 2 qs8's, sr705 receiver.I know i asked a question regarding power amps a couple weeks ago. Some people said it would not help my system at all. Would the new center channel help.The sound is good from watching movies but i just feel that i am not getting the most out of my system.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Pat


Try elaborating a bit more on the "I am not getting the most out of my system" part. Is it not playing as loud as you like?
Posted by: SRoode

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/10/10 12:05 PM

I noticed that you did not mention a sub. Do you have one? If you want more punch during movies, adding a sub will go a long way... More than changing from a VP150 to a VP180.
Posted by: tomtuttle

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/10/10 12:30 PM

Definitely a sub if you don't have one, or if the one you have is not of comparable quality to the rest of your system.

After that, if you have the room for it and if you don't listen to content at insane volumes regularly, the VP180 will make much more of a difference than a different solid state amp.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/10/10 12:46 PM

I thought he had an EP350...
Posted by: patwho

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/10/10 12:53 PM

Yes i have a ep350
Posted by: PTPlayers

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/16/10 08:13 PM

Well i purchased the vp-180 and then realized that my Yamaha 1800 would not drive it so i ordered the xpa-3 as well which should show up at my door tomorrow .

Hard keeping up with the jones'
Posted by: SirQuack

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/16/10 08:36 PM

Why do you think your Yammy won't drive it?
Posted by: JohnK

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/16/10 09:54 PM

Yes, PT; how is it that you "realized" this? It would seem to be necessary to try first, and you've mentioned before that you had no difficulty driving 4 ohm rated speakers with your 1800. Keeping up with the Joneses shouldn't be the object where the topic is audio technology.
Posted by: fredk

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/16/10 10:08 PM

John. I checked. The Jonses still have an HTIB, so no worries there. ;\)
Posted by: PTPlayers

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/16/10 10:23 PM

 Originally Posted By: sirquack
Why do you think your Yammy won't drive it?


Main speakers will drive 4ohm but center from what i read and have been told will not .
Posted by: PTPlayers

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/16/10 10:25 PM

 Originally Posted By: JohnK
Yes, PT; how is it that you "realized" this? It would seem to be necessary to try first, and you've mentioned before that you had no difficulty driving 4 ohm rated speakers with your 1800. Keeping up with the Joneses shouldn't be the object where the topic is audio technology.


The Joneses is a joke with a friend of mine
Posted by: fredk

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/16/10 10:48 PM

 Originally Posted By: PTPlayers
Main speakers will drive 4ohm but center from what i read and have been told will not .

I find it hard to believe that Yamaha would use a different grade amp for the center channel than the mains.

If you're receiver can drive the M80s, it can also drive the VP180.
Posted by: alan

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/17/10 10:08 AM

Hi Fred,

Not necessarily. If you delve into the specs of some AV receivers, you may find the power output rating for the center channel is measured at a single frequency (1 kHz) rather than over the full audio bandwidth (20 Hz - 20 kHz) and the distortion spec is higher, all of which suggest that some shortcuts have been taken for the center-channel amp. With a 4-ohm center, the VP-180, the center amp might be prone to current limiting/overheating/temporary shutdown when stressed.

Cheers,
Alan
Posted by: SRoode

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/17/10 12:10 PM

Alan,
After reading your post, I checked the specs for my Denon AVR-3806:

Power amplifier
Rated output: Front:
120 W + 120 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz with 0.05 % T.H.D.)
160 W + 160 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)
Center:
120 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz with 0.05 % T.H.D.)
160W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)
Surround (A, B):
120 W + 120 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz with 0.05 % T.H.D.)
160 W + 160 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)
Surround Back:
120 W + 120 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz with 0.05 % T.H.D.)
160 W + 160 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)
Dynamic power: 140 W x 2 ch (8 Ω/ohms)
210 W x 2 ch (4 Ω/ohms)
Output terminals: Front, Center, Surr. Back 6 ~ 16 Ω/ohms
Surround: A or B 6 ~ 16 Ω/ohms
A + B 8 ~ 16 Ω/ohms

Do you think I should be concerned since there is no 4 ohm rating, and even at 6 ohm, all channels are only rated at 1 kHz. I have never had a problem with it, but like you say, I'm forcing it to drive three 4 ohm loads and four 6 ohm loads now.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/17/10 12:23 PM

No, because you are already running it without issue and the specs for the mains is tha same for the center, actually for all channels, so I would think it is the same amplifier and we all know Denon has a rock solid amp section.

The thing is with the 4 ohm load you are now getting even more wattage but with higher distortion ratings, I would guess around 1% at max output. This is where an outboard amp comes into play. If you are listening at high volume levels that actually get the amps to near max output and audible distortion, an outboard amp will supply cleaner power(low distortion) to reach those volume levels.
Posted by: alan

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/17/10 01:51 PM

Hi Steve,

Over the years, the Denons have been excellent, with robust amp sections that do not go into current limiting or shut-down unless they are driven to absurd levels. It's the reason I've been recommending Denon for a long time. I think you'll be fine with your Denon.

As Jakewash points out, an outboard amp lets you play cleaner at very loud levels, in big rooms, and keep distortion at lower levels than would occur with an AV receiver.

Regards,

Alan
Posted by: SRoode

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/17/10 03:19 PM

Thanks for the input guys. An outboard power amp (or 3 mono-blocks) has been on my wish list for the 4 ohm loads.
Posted by: ClubNeon

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/17/10 03:28 PM

My other wish for things Axiom would build: Not just a mono-block, but a few different models specifically designed for a range of speakers they build. Including a mounting system to attach it to the speaker with the shortest possible leads (if not a system to attach directly to the binding posts).

Of course an extension of this would be a two amplification channels in one enclosure along with a properly tuned active cross-over, and parts/instructions to bypass the internal network.
Posted by: jakewash

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/17/10 03:28 PM

 Originally Posted By: SRoode
Thanks for the input guys. An outboard power amp (or 3 mono-blocks) has been on my wish list for the 4 ohm loads.


Me too. I nearly bought 3 Outlaw M2200's back when they were on sale, unfortunately the bank account was dangerously low and remaining low with getting the new house in order. Maybe next time they go on sale I can get a few.
Posted by: MarkSJohnson

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/17/10 03:46 PM

I really wanted to order a couple of 2200s during last months' sale also...I've just been spending too much on other things lately so it wasn't a good time for me either.

Maybe someone from Outlaw will see this and repeat the sale next month for those of us that were caught unprepared!
Posted by: SRoode

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/17/10 03:55 PM

I almost pulled the trigger too. It was a very tempting deal. I checked their specs again, and they are fully rated as 300W @ 4 ohm over 20Hz-20kHz with 0.05% THD.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/17/10 04:14 PM

It's too bad a number of people couldn't get together on these types of purchases, to get a better deal.
Posted by: HTGEEK

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/17/10 04:29 PM

 Originally Posted By: alan
Hi Steve,

Over the years, the Denons have been excellent, with robust amp sections that do not go into current limiting or shut-down unless they are driven to absurd levels. It's the reason I've been recommending Denon for a long time. I think you'll be fine with your Denon.

As Jakewash points out, an outboard amp lets you play cleaner at very loud levels, in big rooms, and keep distortion at lower levels than would occur with an AV receiver.

Regards,

Alan


Alan,

Would it be safe to say that my new Denon 4810 will handle a pair of the M80's and the new VP-180? Currently I have the M60's, VP150, M2 and M22 inwalls...

Thanks.
Posted by: Wid

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/17/10 04:34 PM

 Originally Posted By: HTGEEK


Alan,

Would it be safe to say that my new Denon 4810 will handle a pair of the M80's and the new VP-180? Currently I have the M60's, VP150, M2 and M22 inwalls...

Thanks.


Yes.
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/17/10 04:47 PM

Oh yeah, you'll be just fine with a 4810.*






*assuming reasonably sized room, reasonable listening levels, and general lack of insanity. This comment carries no guarantee or warranty of any kind, except where prohibited by law. Special rules apply in Rhode Island. Don't swim after eating.

Posted by: JohnK

Re: vp-180 or xp-3 amp - 05/17/10 10:13 PM

Fred, yes nearly all modern HT receivers have identical specs for all channels. I don't recall seeing any of the major brand models recently which didn't fit this pattern. Of course, there's no separate amplifier for the center channel; it uses the same power supply section as the main channels do, and unless the manufacturer deliberately put different output transistors in the center channel which couldn't handle the same amount of power, its performance is identical.