HI,

I was just wondering if anybody had the opportunity to compare the VP150 and the VP180.
I've had the VP150 for a couple of weeks now. Even though I am quite satisfied for movie, I feel that something is missing in 5.1 concerts. For example, in "Santana presents Blues at Montreux", the bass guitar is mostly present on the center channel and when I enable the center channel, I feel that I am losing some of the bass guitar vs when I just have the M80s on.

Has anybody compared the VP180 and VP150? Is it worth the $300 upgrade? Being a center channel, in most cases they would be crossed over at around 90-100Hz, so what would be the advantage of having the extra 2 x 6.5" drivers if most of the lower frequencies will not be directed to it anyways?

SRoode is the only one capable of answering that for you. I believe the answer would be yes, the VP180 is worth the upgrade.

I wanted the VP180 to have a speaker that matched the M80s as much as possible. I listen to music more than I watch movies, and noticed a timbre difference in the center with the VP150. I had it crossed over at 90 Hz. With the VP180, I have all 3 front speakers now crossed over at 40 Hz and there is a much, much better blending of the soundstage (almost seamless).

So yes, in my opinion it is definitely worth the upgrade.

I found that an M80 laying on it’s side sounded better to me than the VP150 so I imagine one designed to lay on it’s side would work even better so I also vote yes though my experience is only indirect.

Also as Steve points out, with a speaker that has lower extension you can cross it over lower.

My room is fairly small (20ft x 11ft) my main listening position is about 8ft from the center speaker and my M80s are only 7/8 ft apart. Do you think I would still benefit from the upgrade or that my towers being so close together and me being close to the center, I wouldn't probably gain much. It seems to me that the bigger the room, the bigger would be the difference.

The listening area in my apartment was 12x20. My M80s were about 6-7 feet apart and I sat 6-7 feet from the screen. I noticed a huge improvement in sound quality when I upgraded from a VP150 to an M80 as a center speaker. For that matter prior to the upgrade I had turned my center channel off and ran a phantom center with my M80 mains.

It sounds from your first post that you are also turning your center channel off at least sometimes because you also find the M80 sound better especially for music. If that’s the case then IMO it is worth the upgrade. I’m not sure how close Steve said he sits to his speakers but if it isn’t close then you might want to wait on someone posting comments on how it sounds close up or placed fairly close to the mains, but from a sound quality standpoint it should be as much an improvement as I got with my M80 center.

Hi Grunt, thanks for the info. When you replaced the VP150 with the M80, did you noticed a big improvement for movies as well or was it mostly noticeable in music?

IMO the improvement was across the board. I probably noticed it more for most music as I usually listen to it more critically.

The biggest improvement I noticed was better dynamic and timbre matching of the front 3 speakers. There just seemed to be a hole in the midbass with the VP150 which the M80 filled in. This made bass instruments and male voices sound noticeably more natural for both movies and music. This also created a more robust “wall-of-sound” seeming more “movie-like” and more realistic sounding for concert CD/DVDs.

One caveat is the difference in presentation between a horizontal and vertical speaker. The vertical M80 IMO makes well recorded music sound more precise with better placement of instruments and vocalists. However, if sitting close it can cause somewhat of a breakdown of the front soundstage where the center can be heard as distinct from the mains when watching movies. OTOH, a horizontal center blends across the front soundstage for movies more easily. However, it gives less precise audio queues for music since the drivers are spread out a couple to several feet. It can make a vocalist sound like their mouth is a couple feet wide if sitting to close. Note that the farther you sit and the closer together the speakers are minimizes all these effects causing both horizontal and vertical centers to sound more similar IMO.

I am actually toying with the idea of getting a VP180 myself. I would either mount it above my screen and run it in tandem with my current M80 center for movies and switch it off using only the regular M80 for well recorded multi-channel music. The other option I’m considering is making a swiveling speaker stand at work. So I can use just one VP180 under the screen where my M80 is and spin it between horizontal and vertical for movies and some music respectively.

Woop... woop... woop... woop...

Sigh... I miss the old Leslie speakers.

Is that the sound of the Audyssey auto-calibration?

I was just thinking about how cool a spinning M80 would look at the front of grunt's HT room.

I bet even Ian doesn't have one of those...

I wish I could see Ian's setup(s). Did JC ever finish his theater room? I wouldn't mind seeing pics of that, too. Maybe I'm just forgetting him posting some.

Oh, never mind. I do remember JC's pics now that I looked them up again.

And you didn't even bother giving a link back to them for those that haven't seen them, SHEESH!!

http://axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=16822&Number=262694#Post262694

I liked this idea so much that it's exactly what I did. I layed down the M80 on top of the TV stand, placed the VP150 on top of it and then did an A/B testing of the 2 while listening to the center channel only of a few concerts. As you said, there is definitely a big improvement. Some instruments like the bass guitar that were almost disappearing with the VP150 are fully present with the M80, the voices also sound way more natural for both movies and music and the whole sound sounds fuller in general. I particularly enjoyed when I set the M80 to full range while playing the center channel as I don't have a sub so the extra detail on the low end was very nice.
The only caveat that I had with the M80 laying sideways was that it is HUUUUUUUGE !!!!! I only have a regular glass TV stand, so the M80 laying on it occupies the whole width and its depth is longer that my stand's. No need to say that when the wife saw this monster on top of the TV stand, she was VERY far from finding it attractive (note: I don't have a dedicated theater room, I use my living room ). I kind of agree to that, I just wish the VP180 would sound as good as the M80 but in a smaller, more aesthetic form factor but I guess I am asking too much. In the end, I convinced her that later on, we could get a longer entertainment unit and then a speaker this size wouldn't look that big. I don't think she bought that but she saw how exited I was and gave me the approval to upgrade to the VP180
I've had the VP150 for less than a month so I'll just return it as part of the 30 days trial and I've already pre ordered the VP180. Now I just need to wait a week and a half and then I'll be enjoying the sound of the biggest center channel I've ever seen I just hope that it sounds AT LEAST as good as the M80 laying down...

Your findings were the same as mine. The only issue I had with the M80 laying downs was that I sat close enough I could hear that it was on it’s side. So I did this:

M80 Center

Guessing the wife won’t go for that either.

I’m betting the VP180 will sound great and fill in that hole you were hearing just like the M80 does.

I don’t understand why it took so long for Axiom to come up with the VP180. Kudos to Steve if he was the impetus. Maybe if more people would have said something earlier this would have happened sooner.

Cheers,
Dean

After looking at you pics, she said that the VP180 won't look that bad after all! LOL !

Mojo's sentiments exactly. We both felt Axiom could easily have come up with this back when the Ti's first came out.

Ditto

Glad to be of service.

I never even thought of asking Axiom to make a custom center based on an M80. Once I figured out I could fit one above me TV my creative energy was spent.

I was surprised and very excited when Ian said he would do it for me. I was even more excited when he said they were going to become part of the product line.

Cudos to you SRoode;) I'm about ready to place my order for a VP180 and can't wait to run it through it's paces.