I was reading up on a new series of subs from SVS. The yet to be delivered SB12=NSD caught my eye. Has anyone else investigated them? Price and technology are very attractive with seemingly great specifications in a small box. What do you think?

SVS

I just got a PC-12+ and it is blowing me away! SVS subs definitely deliver, I'm sure the SB line will be very good too.

I had the PB12 NSD before my PB13 Ultra and the NSD was a very good sub for the money just not as linear as I liked, the PB13 did the trick. The original SB sub was a very well designed and nice sounding sub from what I have read.

I'm a generation behind Jay, in that I still have the PB12-NSD. It's a very good sub. I've heard the PB13 Ultra - it is very impressive. I think SVS makes good products.

THAT BEING SAID, "Assembled and tested exclusively by SVS Taiwan" does not make me feel happy.

Not only that, but the value proposition is not really blowing me away here. I'm not sure why a SB12 Plus would necessarily out perform an Axiom EP500 for about the same price. I still think that the in-house DSP engineering in the Axiom subs presents technology that other companies are trying to catch up with.

I agree with Tom in that SVS and the rest have lost there price advantage over Axiom. Axiom has done a great job at keeping their prices down on their subs while the rest have increased their own pricing. Back when I was looking there was a substantial saving to be had going with the PB12-NSD over the EP500, this is no longer the case having recently looked at pricing.

What I noticed were some advantages in the SVS I got over the EP500 which I was very seriously considering are:

Price very similar-I got mine delivered for under $1200 all in, outlet EP500 is $1107 + tax.

Inclusion of a PEQ to correct a serious hump in my room. Room trim is a feature only included on the EP600 which is $1600 at the outlet store.

The ability to "tune" the sub to lower frequency using port plugs and the settings on the amp is a cool feature.

I like the smaller footprint of the cylinder.

The driver is actually 12.5"

The BASH amp has a little more power too. 525 watts RMS vs 500.

SVS is a subwoofer company starting to make speakers. I feel Axiom's real strength/specialty is its speakers.

I may be wrong, but I understood from the SVS website that the woofers and boxes for the 12+ line were designed, manufactured, and tested in Ohio. Amp's are supplied by a Canadian company. Maybe the NSD line is Taiwan assembled?

So, box sub to box sub, the EP500 is cheaper. But, if you don't mind the look of a cylinder, that is where the value is because, in the SVS lineup, they perform the same as their box counterparts.

Just my humble opinion based on my research!

Not sure which SVS you're talking about because they have 2 cylinder subs. 1 is $1500 and the other is currently $949. Only the $1500 one looks good because the other has a bad freq response graph IMO. The good one also is 47 inches tall. Way too big for my location.

Cat look at his sig, he is running the PC12 Plus.

1sweet, with all due respect, virtually all the points you listed are either irrelevant (amp wattage, driver size) or "preferences" rather than "advantages". I'm happy that you're happy, but the PC-12+ does NOT have a DSP-based amp, and was not the topic of the thread. It's a different product, assembled on a different continent, using completely different technology than their new sealed line.

The quote I pulled from their website relates to the SB-13 Plus, so their newish far-East strategy transcends the NSD driver line. Perhaps it is related to all the sealed subs - I don't know.

A Malibu is not a good car just because it shares the same brand as a Corvette.

You know what, my earlier response was kind of b!tchy. I apologize for my lack of kindness and enthusiasm.

I'm glad you said it LMAO

I have the PB12-NSD as well and I like it. It's a touch boomy but I think a lot of that is my room. I have never bottomed or ever heard it have any issues and I have demoed it pretty hard from time to time. As far as I know all SVS is designed and built in North America, I know for sure the drivers are made in Ohio and the BASH amps in Canada, maybe the housings are made overseas, not sure.

Hey, apology accepted (though not really necessary)! I'm kind of a new guy here, even though I have followed the forum for quite a while and have enjoyed my axioms immensely for the last 5+ years. I know the DSP could be a very nice advantage, but for my money, I chose SVS and I am not dissappointed.

You're right, it was not the topic of the thread, but I thought it might be helpful to Captain4105 to get some feedback on the quality of the subs in general, and was actually a response the "value", or bang for buck, topic that jakewash raised in the SVS vs Axiom sub comment. The SB uses a similar driver and BASH amp, although a little less powerful. It's not unlike someone offering their experience with an EP350 to someone considering an EP175, at least that's how I saw it.

Still confused about the "different continent" statement. Where did you see that the SVS's are overseas manufactured?

I'm curious about that, too. SVS has always touted they're made in America.

In all fairness, they might own the factory like Axiom owns its factory in China.

I pulled this from their site: (Ohio built woofer, Canadian built BASH amp...)

Box Subwoofer SB12-Plus Features: The Plus 12.3 Woofer

Not quite sure where your sub's parts come from? How about a small factory in rural Ohio? The SVS SB12-Plus is another example of a component set we're quite proud to highlight, in detail. Other brands would rather you not look deep into their woofers or amps. We have parts like this out in our showroom.

If a sub's brain is the amplifier, then the heart must be the woofer. The third generation Plus woofer (which we call the Plus 12.3) runs counter to virtually every trend in the industry: It's made by us, it's made in our Ohio factory, and we released it when we were good and ready, knowing full well that its predecessor was already unmatched in this price class. Oh, and it's expensive to make, when you sell factory direct you can afford to put in better stuff. More than ever, this new woofer rivals its more expensive Ultra brother, taking the Plus legacy and upping the ante in every performance aspect a bit more.

But a world-class woofer is only part of the picture. Using other high performance parts like our robust, hand-finished hardwood construction on the cabinet, and a famed Canadian-built BASH amp with 425 watts ... you get performance that's good enough to embarrass subwoofer twice its size.

Nevermind, I found it. Looks like the SB12-plus and SB13-plus are indeed being assembled and tested in Taiwan. this is a departure for them. I guess they couldn't keep up with the demand in their "rural Ohio" plant.

That is definitely a consideration.

The thing is, it really doesn't matter where the subwoofers are assembled as long as you don't cut corners and I have seen no cutting of corners in any of their products, nor an abundance of quality issues pertaining to their products in performance, assembly etc.

The "myth" that crappy/lower quality products come from overseas than what can be produced in NA is not solely because the country/factory it came from but more companies cutting cost/corners at all costs which is represented by the final product and its problems. Most problems can be traced backed to incompetence of the company itself and the accumulation of decisions made.

True, but quality isn't the only reason to avoid foreign-made products.

Sure, but thats a whole other topic. All this said, I try to support local (independent) business's as much as possible.

That's never stopped anyone here before

Yes and it would be quite the hijack. A mix of economics, politics, morals, ethics and patriotism. It would give the religious and political threads here a run for their money.

LOL, I was wondering the same thing...

Yeah, we've had that one a few times. Those get ooooglay.

Are the internals made there too? I guess it doesn't make sense to export US made drivers and Canadian amps there for assembly.

More likely they could not keep price competitive, but I don't see that as something you can hold against a company. We as a society have been demanding better price and performance on products. Its hardly fair to criticize companies for delivering what we demand.

Yeah, that's probably more accurate. It's alluded to on the release for the SB's. Cylinders still to be made in the US. Electronic's are new for SB too-Taiwanese built, DSP "Sledge" amp instead of the BASH. Which include some cool looking new features like the LCD diplay for menu and adjustments. I earlier thought they were using BASH too, my mistake. I guess I should read more before I open my mouth

Still learning forum etiquette

We have etiquette?

Isn't that the yummy roux and shrimp based sauce you pour on rice?

Absolutely. Never hijack before page two. A page three hijack is fashionably late.

I don't know, but I bet you have the ring of fire to prove it.

For real?

Well then, I think it best to wait for performance reviews of these new subs rather than take advantage of the small discount they now offer. I suppose it will be several weeks before objective data is published. I can wait.