Help needed!

Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Help needed! - 06/18/10 10:58 AM

Hello fellas. I am thinking of getting some speakers from Axiom, but since I am a totally newbie on audio matters I would like to get some help from you guys. My first question is regarding what speakers should I get. I have read a couple of comments stating that getting 3 bookshelfs speakers is better than getting 2 plus a center. What would you guys recommend me? Initially my idea was to get 2 M22 for the front plus a VP150 for the center. Should I get 3 M22's instead? As for the surround 2 QS8's would be my first choice, but since my room is very small since I am from Japan, I have been wondering if the QS4's would be enough for me. My room is 10 W x 10 D x 8 H. As you can see it is indeed very small. Since I am still getting a AV receiver and I am kinda on a tight budget I am not getting the subwoofer right now. But I would love some suggestions on this matter though. Another thing that has been going on my mind is about the speakers cabble. Does the speakers come with it or do I need to buy it? SInce I am not in USA finding some brands may be a problem. What do you guys think of Monster? Would that be okay? Please let me know. Thanks for all the help to come. \:\)
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Help needed! - 06/18/10 11:37 AM

Welcome to the forum!

3 identical speakers across the front does indeed sound the best, IMO but if you do not have enough space below or above the screen the VP100 or 150 are very good match for the M22. I have both of the VP series and there is very little difference between these two.

You say you are on a budget, I would suggest going with 2 M22's, a VP100(or another M22) and an EP350 and then add the surrounds when you can afford them later because bookshelf speakers can really use a good sub for the best sound possible and it will give the most bang for the buck when it comes to HT, IMO. If you look to the Factory Outlet you should be able to receive some substantial savings with 10% off and then add another 5% off if 5 or more items($35 or More) are ordered.

The best bang for the buck for cables would be Monoprice.com or Blue Jeans Cable. I would also suggest you look at Axiom's own cable as it of excellent quality for a reasonable price. Monster has some dubious marketing/business practices and their prices are very inflated for what you get.
Posted by: Vanorge

Re: Help needed! - 06/18/10 01:19 PM

i would have to agree with jake. but check this out: your in a small room.

i have a second room in my house that i have set up with my old energy set of c5, c1, and cc1's and it's more than enough it's actually too much. and it's about the same size.

it's: $1240 for M22's, VP150 and Qs4's
it's: $1286 for the EPIC MIDI 125
or for a little more $1462 you can get the EPIC MIDI 175

EPIC MIDI's consist of M2's with VP100 and Qs4's the 125or175 is the subwoofers.

so the question you have to ask yourself is how long will you be in that room. if for a while go with the epic midi is what i would do.. with the 175. it'll rock that room your in, literally. but if your going to upgrade to a larger space soon. maybe you should invest in something more powerfull

i have the m60,vp150,Qs8's and a ep500. but im in a 20x17x8-12ft room. you can see pics here

http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Vanorge

if i choose to set up that second room correctly. i would do it with the EPIC MIDI,
Posted by: fredk

Re: Help needed! - 06/18/10 01:46 PM

As Jay wrote, 3 identical speakers across the front are the best if you have the room. On a budget, I would go with the QS4.

Again, I agree with Jay that you need a sub to make your system full range, even for music.
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Help needed! - 06/18/10 03:30 PM

So what do you think, should I get 3 M22's and a EP350 or should I go with the EPIC MIDI 175? (taking in consideration that I would add the surround later on. Will the 350 make a huge difference over the 175? Thanks for the reply
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Help needed! - 06/18/10 03:33 PM

Since I am a big fan of techno and hip hop should I get the 350 instead of the 175? Sorry for the newbie question.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Help needed! - 06/18/10 03:37 PM

I have the 175 and am upgrading to a 350 because I'm over-driving the 175 when I get it to the volume I like, but my room is twice the size as yours. It would probably work much better in a room your size.
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Help needed! - 06/18/10 03:38 PM

Hi thanks for the quickly reply. Will the lack of surround speakers be a huge liability for this system? I had in mind that surround were more important that subs. Thanks for clearing things up on my mind. \:D
Posted by: fredk

Re: Help needed! - 06/18/10 03:39 PM

 Originally Posted By: Ichigo_Kurosaki
Will the 350 make a huge difference over the 175?

Yes. Most music has content down to 40Hz and movies well below that.

My M80s reach down to 36Hz so they sound very good with most music. I notice a difference when I put on pipe organ music.

With movies, you will never want a system without a sub once you get a good one.
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Help needed! - 06/18/10 03:41 PM

So iyo the 175 would be enough for me? Since I never had the chance to hear any speakers from axiom I really don't know what to choose from so many options.
Posted by: CatBrat

Re: Help needed! - 06/18/10 04:09 PM

Yes. I think the 175 would be a good choice for a room your size. With movies it adds a lot of extra sound that I wouldn't have without it.

As to the surrounds, I can't testify because I've chosen to go without them at this time. If I could pick up some on the auction that might be another matter for later. But I don't miss what I don't have.
Posted by: Vanorge

Re: Help needed! - 06/18/10 04:24 PM

you can't beat a whole set tho. i was watching MASTER and COMMANDER again yesterday. just for the cannons and the ep500. anyways in that begining scene.. 1.2.or 3. i forget which one, one of the begining scenes. there are people scrounging around an upper level of the ship. let me tell you it's auwesome!!! with good surrounds it was like people were running around on my roof!
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Help needed! - 06/18/10 04:54 PM

It's honestly hard to say which would be the priority, sub vs surrounds, since they are both integral to enjoying your system to the fullest. If you can afford it, the EP350(factory outlet) would be my choice over the 175. I think it'll give much more "presence" than the 175, as it should.

The Master and Comander cannon salvo scene is a great example as to why you need both surrounds and a decent sub. This part of the movie without either(sub/surrounds) just wouldn't be the same.
Posted by: Vanorge

Re: Help needed! - 06/18/10 06:22 PM

exactly why a whole set up is the way to go.. without the whole set up i'd be missing alot

which is why i suggested the whole set
Posted by: Vanorge

Re: Help needed! - 06/18/10 06:30 PM

 Originally Posted By: Ichigo_Kurosaki
So what do you think, should I get 3 M22's and a EP350 or should I go with the EPIC MIDI 175? (taking in consideration that I would add the surround later on. Will the 350 make a huge difference over the 175? Thanks for the reply


as per this question. i would go the set with the surrounds asap. for a room that size it'll be perfect. also if you can get the stands for a really classy look
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Help needed! - 06/18/10 09:51 PM

Ichigo, welcome. My suggestion is to first go with the M22 mains, then the QS4 surrounds. Without surrounds you don't really have a home theater setup, while if your budget requires, you can temporarily do without a center speaker(the M22s would form a "phantom" center)and a sub. Although I now use my EP500 with my M22s at all times, before I got the EP500 I would often use the M22s without the much less capable sub I had at that time. The M22s have adequate bass for the enjoyment of most music, although adding a sub later is highly desirable.
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Help needed! - 06/19/10 12:34 AM

Well I just got more confused now. LOL The thing is that I would like to get a good sub, but if I get the 175 now would be a waste of money since I am really inclined to get the 350 as Jay suggest before. I have these Denon speakers, but they are not as nice as axioms, would it be okay for me to use them for surround till i get my qs4's or qs8's?

The model is SYS-S500CSK
80Hz~30kHz

40W(JEITA)、100W(PEAK)
82dB

My budget is around 1200 dollars for the speakers plus 500 for the receiver. Should I take a cheaper av amp and try to get the whole package with the 350 and the surround, or should I stick with a little better amp? I am thinking of getting a Yamaha, Onkyo or Pioneer but haven't decided which model to take. I want something around 500 dollars. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I will be posting the models I have been considering on my next post. Thanks for all the help! You guys rock! I can't wait to get my Axiom speakers.
Posted by: fredk

Re: Help needed! - 06/19/10 01:52 AM

If you are watching movies, you want a more capable sub than the EP175. If you are on a budget you could consider something like the SVS PB10. Its an excellent performer for the money from what I understand.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Help needed! - 06/19/10 04:06 AM

Yes, you can use the Denon speakers as surrounds, although the QSs are really superior in that function. In your small room it's difficult to get enough dispersion from the surrounds since they're so close. One technique is to not have them pointed at you, but instead turned toward the side or back walls.

Not being familiar with what receivers are available to you there, I'd suggest in general one of the Denon or Onkyo models with Audyssey calibration/room correction.
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Help needed! - 06/19/10 10:44 AM

This is the back picture from the receiver I am thinking of getting. The model is Onkyo TX-SA608 it is a bit different from the us 608 model that I thought it would be similar.
The specs are as following:

Onkyo
TX-SA608
7 channels plus 2 subs pre outs 1 analog
speaker output 9
470 W
130W/channel
DOLBY TrueHD
DOLBY PRO LOGIC II z
DTS-HD Master Audio

Could any of you guys tell me if this is a 7.1 or a 7.2 system? On the manufacturer website says it is a 7.1 but there are 2 subs pre outs. Sorry for the newbie question.
[img]www.avac.co.jp/2010_spring/txsa608.html[/img]
Posted by: Ken.C

Re: Help needed! - 06/19/10 10:46 AM

Well, I don't know of any formats off the top of my head with separate sub channels, so even if it does have two sub outs, it's going to be 7.1. I could be wrong there. Does it have 2 sub ins?
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Help needed! - 06/19/10 10:55 AM

Maybe it is just a misspelling. Anyway, are all yamaha receiver that bad? They have good specs for the price comparing to other brands.
Posted by: EFalardeau

Re: Help needed! - 06/19/10 10:58 AM

There are some pre-pros (Lexicon, I think) that, when placing the subs upfront next to the mains, sends the LFE to both, but only sends the left bass to the the left sub and similarly to the other. Since most xovers are at 80-90hz, I haven't seen that "feature" in any modern version (my D2v has 2 pre-outs for subs, but it is only for ARC calibration, not for re-mixing) as it is doubtful to do anything positive.
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Help needed! - 06/19/10 11:08 AM

I am having a hard time trying to add a picture on the post. LOL Sorry about that!
Posted by: jakewash

Re: Help needed! - 06/19/10 12:21 PM

Yamaha avr's are not that bad, but they have been known to have good and bad avr's all in the same year depending on the model while Onkyo and Denon and a few others generally have great avr's through out the line. Yamaha seems to cheap out on some components to meet a specific price point and this hurts the performance of that particular avr over others they are producing.
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Help needed! - 06/19/10 12:36 PM

Thanks Jay for making things clear. I guess I will go with Onkyo SA-TX608 anyway.
Posted by: BlueJays1

Re: Help needed! - 06/19/10 04:14 PM

 Originally Posted By: Ichigo_Kurosaki
Hello fellas. I am thinking of getting some speakers from Axiom, but since I am a totally newbie on audio matters I would like to get some help from you guys. My first question is regarding what speakers should I get. I have read a couple of comments stating that getting 3 bookshelfs speakers is better than getting 2 plus a center. What would you guys recommend me? Initially my idea was to get 2 M22 for the front plus a VP150 for the center. Should I get 3 M22's instead? As for the surround 2 QS8's would be my first choice, but since my room is very small since I am from Japan, I have been wondering if the QS4's would be enough for me. My room is 10 W x 10 D x 8 H. As you can see it is indeed very small. Since I am still getting a AV receiver and I am kinda on a tight budget I am not getting the subwoofer right now. But I would love some suggestions on this matter though. Another thing that has been going on my mind is about the speakers cabble. Does the speakers come with it or do I need to buy it? SInce I am not in USA finding some brands may be a problem. What do you guys think of Monster? Would that be okay? Please let me know. Thanks for all the help to come. \:\)


That is a pretty small room. Are you a university/college student or live in a small one bedroom apartment? Is there a computer and television in this room? I would think setting up all that surround equipment like the receiver and other accessories like the stands and especially bigger/tall bookshelf speakers like the M22 the room would feel quite crammed.

I would recommend going along the lines of a home theatre PC, active or passive studio monitors for your mains as well as a quality pair of headphones. Being in Japan there are some excellent manufacturers like Audio Technica that make quality headphones that come from your home country.

If you are you not using this system for home theatre I would skip the centre channel and surround speakers all together. If you are using it for home theatre as well than something like the M2's or M3's paired with the QS4 and a receiver should work very well.
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Help needed! - 06/19/10 10:22 PM

LOL! Usually this is the typical size of a japanese apartment room. There are some that are even smaller than that. I live in a 2 Bedroom + living room apartment. Well here they say it is a Mansion what means that it is usually bigger than other apartment buildings. The thing is that I had that room for the home theater only. Plus my piano. So I wanna have a good HT for watching movies. Initially I was considering getting a HTIB but I thought why not get something better for a little more money. So here I am.
Posted by: JohnK

Re: Help needed! - 06/19/10 10:45 PM

Ichigo, the 608 has only one subwoofer channel. The ".2" reference means only that there are two parallel outputs for that one channel. This is only a minor convenience for someone using two subs, since an external Y-connector wouldn't have to be used.
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Help needed! - 06/19/10 10:50 PM

Ichigo: Welcome! There are so many regular forum members who can help you in every way with your decisions. I'm not one of them! Stick around and you'll get other suggestions to add to the thoughtful responses you've already received.

I think the newest Onkyo is 807. It's gotten rave reviews and it is the first THX certified by anyone @ $599. It is also 3-D capable, so check it out. I have a 906 and a 607. A big bucnh of features for the money.

"Do you live in a dormroom?" HaHa! Excellent!! God, we are entitled hogs, aren't we?
Posted by: BobKay

Re: Help needed! - 06/19/10 10:53 PM

See! I got the model # wrong, while John K (one of the guys, along w/ Jay, you should listen to), inevitably, got it correct. It is the 608.
Posted by: Ichigo_Kurosaki

Re: Help needed! - 06/19/10 11:34 PM

Hi Bob! Here in Japan the receiver are a bit different from the Us models. From what I could see the pack panel is not similar at all.
Here we have the 807 as a last year model but the price is @ $1000.

The newest models over here are the 808 and 708 the 808 will cost me around $1500 and the 708 $1240. The 608 is around $600 so that is the price that fits my budget. LOL This is why I had decided on going with the 608. Anyway I guess I will make a little effort and get myself the whole set. With 3 M22's ( or 2 M22's and 1 M3, as I have said in other post I wanna take them for a trial and decide on which one to keep, initially I had decided on the M22's but I read some people here saying they prefer the M3's the best whilst some say they prefer the M22's, although on my post most tell me to go with the M22 for sound clarity while the M3 provides a little more bass), plus a EP350 as suggest by jay and then I have to decide on the surrounds. I would go for the QS8's for the money since they might be a little better for a very little addition on the price. Taking in consideration the size of my room, maybe I don't need all this.