Hi Folks; I'm new to Axiom and this forum,I'm breaking in a pair of M2's that will be used as mains with a sub. I'm currently using them set at large starting with low volumes and have gradually increased the volume over the last three days Where my volume currently is at 38 and my max on my avr is 65 playing a wide spectrum of audio cd's. I'm curious as to what procedures you have used,or if you feel it's necessary? Thanks

It's not necessary.

Yeah, it's not like it's a car engine. Playing 'em loud at hour 1 is as safe as playing 'em loud at hour 1000, and should get you the same excellent results.

Go ahead and enjoy them.

That puts my mind at ease. Thanks

Regardless of the drivel one hears from some speaker companies AND reviewers about the so-called "break-in" period, what is actually breaking in is your ears, not the speakers.

Actually, if you're running M2s as "full size" speakers and keep turning up the volume, you'll turn "break-in" to "broke".

Exactly why I've played them at very low volume to this point. Never had intention to play them "large" under normal listening,I'll let the sub shoulder the burden.

I would change them to small with a crossover of about 80 hz or so to the sub.

That's exactly how they're set now,just not sure they have what it takes to be the front mains,even with a sub. Thinking I need something with a little more oomph.

How big is your room and how loud do you normally oomph?

No such thing as break in period. period.

Room is about 12 x 16,I usually watch tv at low volumes,movies a little louder and louder yet for concert dvd's and blu-rays

Can you put some SPL numbers to that description? I listen to the tv MUCH louder than the Mrs., for instance.

Scott

Just keep your M2 set as small from your a/v reciever and tune your sub at desire volume. And you will be just fine.

My T2's are in a 19 X 38 X 8 room with another 12 X 20 room on the side. I just cranked up the little guys to 85 dB (at 4m) without a sub (WAF limited here)

They are more than loud enough, and no sibilance Clear and clean. A bit louder and they start to distort, but I'm feeding them the full spectrum. I can't find the remote to set them to small...

They are typically run at 70 dB or less, so perfect for background music. Not sure I'd use them for HT, but maybe in a smaller room and definitely with a sub.

Scott

The more I think about it, I did have them running in my HT when they first came in, just to give them a listen. They were a better match for the VP150 than my M80's and sounded pretty good with the EP500! My HT room is slightly bigger than the OP's room, so he should be good with M2's!!

Scott

As an update,I've returned the m2's for a set of m3's,hoping they'll give me a little more punch

M3's should give you more bass punch than the M2's if you compare the freq graphs of each.

Definitely. I have trouble enjoying M2s on some kinds of music because of the missing bass but the same music on M3s sounds more "complete".

M2s with subwoofer, on the other hand, sound *great*. Never tried them with a small sub, just an SVS PC-Plus.

Are there any musicians out there? Do musical instruments like violins or guitars change with age? If they do could a speaker behave similarly?

Hi Lampshade,

I play both those instruments (guitar and violin). Yes, as the wood dries out over the years, the resonating "box" (surfaces) of acoustic guitars and violins become more resonant and rich-sounding. More scientific studies (including one published years ago in Scientific American magazine) show, however, that the changes in tonality of instruments are not as great as some claim.

The same is not true of loudspeaker enclosures. You do NOT want the speaker enclosure to resonate like a musical instrument, because then the enclosure contributes its own set of vibrations to the sound, which make it less accurate and colored.

That's why the vast majority of well-engineered loudspeakers are made of MDF (medium-density fiberboard) because MDF is one of the most non-resonant materials available. Additional internal bracing also helps dampen potential resonances and, in Axiom's case, we use the tapered enclosure to further cancel out potential internal box resonances.

After all, a loudspeaker is NOT a musical instrument. It is a transducer, converting analog electrical signals into acoustic replicas of instrumental and vocal sounds. As such, it should be as neutral as possible, contributing no "sounds" of its own (from enclosure vibration) to the reproduced music.

Regards,
Alan

Thanks Alan. I thought the main reason MDF was used is because of costs. Very interesting!

Cost/Benefit ratio is a very big reason why MDF is the most popular. When a MDF enclosure is well engineered and braced it becomes an effective material to control cabinet resonance. Remember that commercial loudspeakers are for profit and MDF is the best option to be used to keep costs down for the enclosure portion of the loudspeaker. Not only in the cost of the MDF itself but also because of its ease of use in manufacturing process compared to more expensive enclosure materials.

Of course cost is a factor. I could have said "MDF is the most practical and cost-effective material". It's more acoustically opaque than using real wood, for example (I'm not referring to real-wood veneer but actual boards of cherry, pine, birch, etc.) Plywood is better than the latter because it's layered but it's still not as dead as MDF.

Alan

Also, MDF is very heavy and its dust is toxic to breath. The weight makes it difficult to work with, much more difficult than other sheet goods. It dulls and gums up tooling quickly. Plants who machine it, need very elaborate dust collection systems. It may be less expensive, but the costs are a bonus, and not the primary driver for using it. There is a great deal of ignorance with regards to MDF from folks who concentrate on costs more than functionality.

All true. Axiom has a very elaborate and costly dust-collection system installed in its factory. The sucking sounds of the system are so noisy that I often do my listening tests during periods when the saws aren't running and the dust-collection system is off.

We have a single-operator controlled crane thing with huge vaccuum-operated suction cups that picks up each sheet of MDF and positions it on the saws, which are computer controlled and programmed to make very precise cuts for each of the speaker enclosures in the line.

Alan

I can attest to Michael's assertion of MDF after using it for both wainscoting and crown molding....awfull dusty stuff and hard on your cutters.

EDIT: Looks like I missed a page of posts. This was in response to the question of musical instruments changing with age. Excuse me if the little I could offer was already covered.

All speculation based on the tiny bit I know but
An instrument that relies on the vibration of the material, such as a violin or guitar can suffer changes to it's shape and rigidity over time but that would mostly be due changes in humidity levels and such having a direct effect on changing the material, more so than the time itself. Many a guitar or piano has been ruined by a shift in climate. Never move a piano to a new home, they say.

Most wind instruments however, rely solely on the pattern or funnel of the air moving through it to effect the sound. The type of material makes little difference as long as it holds its shape.

Speakers?
Boards turned flabby by humidity certainly might effect the resonating factor and change the sound. Also, I understand older speakers with paper cones or gaskets are much more prone to having the paper dry up and fail. All that being said, I'm still not convinced about the 30 hour speaker break in period though.

Well this thread really went off the rails due to what I would term as a "hijack" but as it turns out it ended up being an interesting and informative read on speaker box materials and construction. Back to the original topic,I'm looking forward to my m3's arriving and I doubt I will put much emphasis on breaking them in.

We're good at hijacks around here. In fact, we've turned it into an artform, although I generally prefer impressionist paintings.

Ugg boots.

LOL

I was trying to figure out who the hijacker was. If it was me I thought I was asking a question about break in period dealing with changing sound. I guess your original question was about speaker break in referring to speaker damage. Sorry.

Situation normal, nothing to see here, move along.

These aren't the droids you are looking for.

Jedi scum!

This issue of speaker break-in has been discussed over and over, and the general consensus is that it makes no difference.

Here's a quote from the owners manual for the Energy Reference Connoisseur line of speakers:

BREAK-IN PROCEDURES

"It is VITAL that your new Reference Connoisseur speakers be allowed to break-in
properly before you perform any precise set up procedures, system adjustments, and
before you play them at higher volume levels. The best method of performing the
break-in is to play a full range musical passage at a moderate level as long as
possible. Utilizing the repeat function on your CD or DVD player can assist greatly.
Optimum sound will not be achieved until approximately 100 hours of playing time.
After break-in, the volume level can be increased. Do not play the speakers at high
levels until the break-in process has been completed. The transducers need to
“loosen up”, and until this occurs, damage can result to the transducers."

Maybe it makes no difference, but hey, can't hurt!

If it gives you a peace of mind Sweet then by all means do it.

Highly agree, it really does come down to your own personal interests in the subject. Like you said if it will ease the owner's mind then he/she should break them in.

Is that a synopsis on speaker break-in/burn-in or on how to waste electricity?

Thanks for that 1sweetspot. That went down great with a glass of gin.

Woah.. hopefully you involved a mixer of some type. I likes me my gin but not straight!

Sometimes I don't mix it. Depends on the quality of gin. Gin is one of my favorite hard liquors.

Considering Energy’s liberal definition of the word “transducer”, I would refute their claim. Now if they want to get specific, and detail exactly what part of the driver (aka transducer) they are referring to that needs break in, I may be inclined to give their rational some thoughtful deliberation. I still have not heard any compelling argument that will substantiate that speakers need to be “broke in”. Just don’t pour the juice to them when they are cold.

I just got a new Energy system-clearance going on at FS- and I'm in the minority in believing in the "break in" period. Glad to give you something to read while enjoying some gin Yeah, it's a bit of electricity, but hey, I live in Alberta, we have energy to spare.

I figure, someone more knowledgable than I (yeah, that bar is pretty low) got paid to put that in the owners manual. Although words like "vital" and "100 hours" are a little extreme. Maybe Axiom is different, as their engineers don't recommend a break-in period. It's probably just my ears breaking in, but I think my M60's sound better and better each time I listen to them.

At any rate, I'll let the RC's play for a while before running audissey for the final set up. Peace of mind for sure.

Congrats on the new speakers 1sweetspot. Yeah, there are some excellent deals on Infinity and Energy speakers these days at places like Future Shop and Best Buy.

If you plan on "breaking in" the speaker for 100 hours, make sure to enjoy them in the process.

Thats good advice about not hooking up the speakers after delivery sitting in a UPS truck on a cold winter day. It is possible for there to be noticeable sound quality changes in this instance and it could improve as the voice coils in the driver heat up to their normal operating temperature. I doubt it would damage the speaker though - maybe if the components were frozen .

To properly measure the effects of any break-in/burn-in would take a lot of work. The key to this would be to have a temperature controlled room at around 19 or 20 degrees celsius (room temperature) to store the drivers before and after a signficant cooling down period (24hrs) after the testing period of lets say at 100 hours for measurements. You would also need a signficant amount of random choosen samples (of each of the same driver) to account for any variations within each lot of drivers and control groups.

If you are in control of your own manufacturing, random unused samples of drivers would need to be choosen at different manufacturing periods to account for any tolerance variations in the lots - whether it could be quality control or just due to running changes in the manufacturing.

The testing alone of the drivers would take a very long time. Then after all the measurements you would need test the signficance and analyze the data using a program such as excel.

Oh yeah. Much enjoyment already. Just started the redundant break-in process this morning, got everything set up in the basement. Had the towers already, so they have probably 250 hours on them. The prices were irresistable-surrounds were $159.99 and the LCR was $349.99-less than half price. Let me tellya my first impressions are very positive.

The other positive thing, I will now have a full on Axiom 5 channel sytem in my upstairs living room too! (Maybe I should leave them play to break in the QS8's as they are a recent aquistion-just to be sure of course)

Glad to hear your enjoying your new speakers

I am hoping for the Infinity Primus P362 floorstanders to go on sale. Right now they are listed at $599/pair MSRP. I would be very tempted to pick them up if I can find them for less than $500/pair.

I have never worked at an electronics store, but I highly doubt that some kid at FS or BB actually "breaks in" a pair of Energy speakers (moderate volume for 100 hours) before they put them on display. I am sure they don't worry about damage when a customer wants to hear the display models with some juice.

"I know you are interested in these speakers, but I can't turn up the volume until tomorrow at 3:30am, we are currently in the break in stage" LOL!

I would also be very surprised that a company like Energy would design a speaker that would, could be damaged by loud volumes right out of the box. Lets face it, at under $200 most people probably don't even read the instructions. They get them home, hook em’ up, and crank the volume. Energy's warranty claims would be through the roof is this 100 hour break in requirement was true!
I think this space in the manual could much better be used to describe the damage that can occur by clipping and not using proper amplification.

paul

Thats a good point Worfzara. With a big company like Energy (know owned by Klipsch) I would be surprised if the owners manual was written by any of the engineers. I'm sure it's delegated to another department like marketing for example.

I agree about not putting any stock into damaging the speakers before the 100hrs mark if played to loud. Energy speakers are well engineered and use good drivers. Statements such as those are to prevent the owner from returning the speakers (or to keep them longer) during the return period in case they are not liking the sound.

Hi Worfzara,

The Energy note in the manual on break-in is hilarious. I'm sure that Ian Paisley, the former director of engineering for API (the parent company of Energy, Mirage, SPL, Sound Dynamics, etc), now retired, would be much amused, as would John Tchillinguarian, former Energy designer, Kevin Voecks--now at Revel--and Axiom's own Andrew Welker, who took over design at Mirage).

I suspect the note on break-in came from the API marketing dept, some of whom had very close contact with the tweakophile anti-science editors at The Absolute Sound and Stereophile, all of whom implicitly believed the break-in nonsense. It was to garner favor with the tweak magazines, which Energy and Mirage were able to do. If they hadn't indulged the break-in myth, they would have been dismissed by the tweak editors, who held lots of power with higher-end boutique dealers and customers.

Regards,
Alan

I didn't read the part regarding speaker break when I bought my RC's...whew... . I figured since engine break in was a myth it applied to speakers as well.

We have a totaly different kind of energy to spare, electrically we are very poor.