Hi all! I've been lurking for a while now and first off have to thank you in advance for all the useful advice that has been given. Now, I would like to request a little more, if you are willing. My dilemma -- choosing between the M22's or M60's. My situation -- I currently live in an apt. that is ~30 years old (doesn't have much sound-proofing), and I don't want to be evicted or annoy my neighbors. I say this because some might say the obvious solution is the M22's plus a good sub for my setup, but the sub might be too much in an apt (any opinions here?).
My listening room is about 14x14 with one open side into another 14x14 room. Plush carpeting on the floor. I will be getting a new Yamaha RX-V640 (or 740, if I can swing the extra $) to go along with the Denon DVD-1600 I have (used for both CD and DVD). I will use it for 60/40 stereo/HT and I don't usually listen at high levels (due to the apt. situation and generally being a "low level" kinda guy). I currently have a Klipsch KSC-1 center channel and a semi-useful pair of monitors as surrounds, but will be upgrading to all Axiom (VP100 center and QS4 surrounds) in the next six months.
For straight music I think I would prefer not to have a sub, but that might change once I get one I most likely will be moving into a house in 3-4 years, and as the speakers I buy now should hopefully last 20+ years, I want to do it right the first time.
I think the best bet is to go with the M60's now and just get a sub when I move into a house. I think I will be satisfied with the bass from the M60's (for the moment) and won't annoy too many of my neighbors and can look forward to the sub upgrade in a few years, once in a house.
So, any opinions/suggestions on my thinking? Thanks much in advance, Scott

Scott,
I tend to agree with your logic here, especially if you are going to be moving into a house sometime in the future.
The M22s sound virtually identical to the M60s at LOW volumes. The fuller, larger sound of the M60s really only picks up once the volumes are turned up. If you were only ever going to play music or movies at low volumes, you would not notice much difference b/w the two speakers in my opinion (i have auditioned both).
However, if you do get a sub, and live in an apartment that is built with paper thin walls, there is no doubt that your neighbors will hear what you are hearing. Low frequency sounds can really carry quite far.
In future proofing your possibilities, and assuming that money is not too much of an issue, i would certainly recommend the M60s over the M22s until you move and decide you want a sub to enhance the lower end.
In the meantime, you could use the M60s at a higher volume perhaps when the neighbors are not around to satisfy your bass or volume desires.

Ditto Chess's post. I also have auditioned both, and given your parameters, I would go with the M60s.

I guess the question really is how big of a room do you think these speakers are going to end up in when you get a house.

Right now the room size you have, would be PERFECT for the M22's and a sub. Even if you play at louder volumes the M22's should be able to fill that room nicely. (Especially with a sub)

When you move into a house, if the roomsize is going to be bigger, then you may want the M60's, but if you keep your system in a small room, there still will be no need for the jump to the M60's.

OK...after saying all that, I must say the M60 is a superior sounding speaker. It retains all the detail of the M22, but has a larger soundstage, and slightly smoother upper region. The upper bass is not quite as clean as the M22's though - I've found that putting the M60's up off the floor a bit helps clean this up.

So...IF you're going to be moving into a larger room, get the M60's. If you're going to stay in a small room, regardless of volume levels, I think you'll be fine with the M22's.

Of course you could always get the M22's and a sub now, move to a larger room and then switch the M22's for the M60's and put the M22's into surround positions.

Sounds like you're speaking from direct observation, Spiff. Did you buy a pair of M60s, or what?

i never heard the 22s or the m60s,but if you use a sub in a square room,i belive standing waves happen more often(i think...maybe allen could chime in on this)if that is the case, sub placement could be tricky,and depending where you sit in the room,you may end up turning your sub up to annoying levels for your nieghbors...good luck....ron

Spiffnme - How much off the floor to you have your M60's and what do you have them on? Also, do you think the 60's more,less,or the same sensitivity to placment as 22's to achieve the large sound stage? And finally, do you agree that you don't hear the fuller, larger stage sound of the 60's if you don't play loud. If so, can you quantify "loud" thanks

When I was demoing, I had the 60's about 18" off the floor. I've since, simply placed them on the floor. I've not found a good way to lift them up. The stands I had them on were certainly not good as a permanent solution. Far too top heavy.

The 60's seem less fussy about placement. Very slight changes in toe-in, width apart, and distance from listening area made significant changes to the sound stage of the M22's. I've not noticed nearly as much of a difference when "tweaking" the placement of the M60's.

When I was doing my m22/m60 comparison listening, I was always playing them at slightly loud listening levels (approx 75-80db). I never really listened to them in comparison to eachother at lower volumes. Sorry.

Thanks, spiff. Here is a non-techie question. What do you use to measure the decibel level?

Go into any Radio Shack and ask for an analog sound level meter. $30.

I have M50's in the living room and M22's in our 13x19 bedroom. Love them both. Were I to be in a small appartment for some time, I would have no problem with the 22's. Were I to move to a larger place, I would do what we did, put the 22's in the bedroom and satisfy the urge to upgrade at that time. Who knows what will be available then? No matter what system I can afford in the future there will always be a place for the M22's. We went at it the other way around. Bought the 50's first and put them in the bedroom until the other components arrived. Missed them so much in the bedroom bought the 22's. The difference in physical size is much bigger than the differnce in sound. For that reason the I think th 22's offer the flexability to allways be a good choice in the long run. With a sub you won't need more in an apartment in my opinion.

Some people make me sick. Your bedroom is larger than my living room.