Hi,

Sorry in advance for this long post.

I have read just about every M60 vs. M80 thread and just can't make up my mind which to try.

I have a pair of M2 v2-1/2's (with a small sub) that I absolutely love as near-field monitors on my computer-based DAW (pro audio recording / mastering rig) and would like to get that kind of accurate, full sound on a larger scale as L & R mains for my HT/music listening system.

I have tried my Mackie HR624 MkII's recording mains in that system but they seem too "clinical" and "dry". They don't have any nice "bite" or "presence" to them like the little M2's do while staying accurate. Hence my desire to try the larger Axioms.

AVR is a Denon 3808. Sub is an original SVS PCI cylinder so bass is not a problem. Room is very well treated (pretty dead actually) with Auralex foam and LENRD bass traps.

The speakers will be about 7 feet apart and the listening distance is 7 feet. Back of couch is 18" from back (treated) wall. Will this be far enough for those multiple drivers to "blend" and have a good soundstage and imaging?

Looking at the NRC response graphs, they are both fairly flat (although overall not as flat as the M2's!).

The M60 seems to have a very broad dip in the mids and a broad rise between 80 Hz and 250 Hz.

The M80 looks a bit ragged between 100-200 Hz but appears flatter overall. Also, something about the use of 2 mids and 2 tweeters bothers me as well as that gets away from the "point source rule" for imaging. The Mackie's do image very well.

Bottom line for me is accurate but smooth mids, no harsh highs, great imaging and nice full musical lower mids/upper bass without sounding chesty on male voices. Basically the M2 "scaled-up".

What do you Axiom experts think?

Thanks!

--M--

I intended on purchasing the m60's back in '07 when I was looking at axioms. I was able to find the m80's for an audition but not m60's. After hearing the m80's I knew I had to have a pair. I haven't heard the m60's so I can't offer much advice other than I don't think you can go wrong with either one.

I'd vote for the m80's simply because they have given me the exact listening experience you are describing (great imaging, nice full musical sound, clean midrange, etc.) for the last 3 years. If I owned the m60's I could probably say the same thing about those speakers though.

While the planned listening distance isn't all that far for you, it sounds as though a nice equilateral triangle would be formed which should give you great imaging.

I have never noticed any strange sounds or imaging problems with dual mids and tweeters.

Also, I suggest you have 12" of clear space between the m80's and the back wall since they are rear ported.

Welcome, Marky. I'm thinking there is likely someone in your area that may be able to provide you with an audition of either M60s or M80s if you wanted to hear them first. There is a "Hearing Things" thread with a list of auditioning possibilities or a call to Axiom may provide you with a local connection. Of course, you also have the 30 day return policy if you order your Axioms to audition(just pay return shipping).

I agree with the comments David made. The dual tweets seem to worry some potential owners of the M80s but I too, haven't heard any problems with that arrangement. I likened the sound of my M80s (V2) to be similar to Paradigm's Studio 100's(V4) a couple of years ago when I was auditioning just in case you are familiar with the 100's. I haven't heard the latest version of the M80's but they are said to have slight improvements over the V2s as well.

Thanks David and Adrian.

Do you feel that the "phantom center" imaging is rock solid on the 80's?

I have about 9-10" clear space behind on the left and more than that on the right.

If I get them both in here, it looks like it will cost $90 to send one pair back.

I'm leaning towards going for the 80's. If I don't like them, I could still go for the 60's. But something tells me they won't be going back.

Have either of you heard the M2's?

Thanks Again,

--Mark--

There are a number of Axiom owners in Ohio on the audition list but I'm not sure how up-to-date it is so it may be better to contact Axiom since many owners don't frequent the forums on a reg basis. If you order the speakers from the US, if you decide to return them they are sent to a US address as I understand it so as to reduce the cost.

If you've heard the Paradigm Studio 100's which may be easier for you to locate, I'd say the M80's are close to them on the imaging, perhaps with a slight advantage to the Studio 100s, but they are so close sonically in so many respects, it's almost uncanny imo.

Unfortunately I haven't heard the M2's, only the M3's in the blind test against the B&W's at the Axiom gathering.

I haven't heard the M2's. I own M60's and have heard M80's at several other locations.

Given your very extensive expertise, I think you'd be well-served by getting the M80's. They are Axiom's flagship loudspeaker. I don't think that your reservations about non-point-source design will be borne out. Remember that Axiom is primarily an R&D company and that Ian has about 30 years of design/engineering experience. The M80 is built the way it is because that's what they have concluded is "best". That's what you deserve.

Hello MarkyM: I initiated a thread discussing in detail the new M60's I had bought. You might want to take a look at http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=325662#Post325662 - However I decided not to keep them and to purchase M80's explicitly because they have dual tweeters and mid-range speakers. I was looking for a forward sounding speaker in those frequencies for the presentation I was seeking. I found the M60's were very smooth and blended. One could easily determine instrument location in the sound stage accurately. The M80's in my opinion produce music that seems to go beyond any specific speaker location or boundaries...they disappear when performing. From your description the M60's may be the speaker for you. When the volume is turned up they perform magnificently and comparable to the M80...perhaps less detailed in the highs. Since I listen at moderate volumes and strictly to classical music I was looking for a speaker that would give me a forward sound at lower levels and the 80's hit the spot.

+1 what the Captain said.

In my experience the M2v2/M22v2 and M60v2 have a similar sound, yet the extra bass of the M60 seems to hide the mids more, the extra mid driver of the M80 lets the mids shine through.

I would first purchase the M60s and then return them for the M80s(Axiom pays for this 'upgrade' at least in the past this worked )if they are not quite what you are looking for. You would then only have to decide if the M80s are what you want and if not you are then responsible for the return shipping.

Here's (possibly a stupid) suggestion. Get one M60 and one M80. Left and right channel. Listen to them seperately (by unplugging from the back of the speaker). Then trade for the one you want to keep.

^

Stupid? I think that's a great suggestion. And return shipping $ for one speaker wouldn't be so bad.

This might not be advisable. One of the most important elements of speaker evaluation is imaging and you need both to be able to fully appreciate soundstage. The different in cost would NOT be significant enough for the risks of making a decision you might regret.

Yeah, I think having two of the same speakers is important.

I have mentioned this a couple of times on other threads but last spring I traded in a pair of M60s for M80s inasmuch as I had my heart set on a pair of M80s in the Piano Gloss color and I essentially got a trade-in value that was almost what I paid for the M60s a year and a half earlier so it was hard to pass up. Luckily, it wasn't a moment too soon since, as we all know, unfortunately, the trade-in/trade-up program is a now thing of the past.

In the end, even though I couldn't do a direct A/B comparison, to my ears anyway, I was surprised how similar the two models sounded to one another. If you can afford the M80s and you are interested in the little extra bass extension, you might as well buy them at the outset. As far as the single/ dual tweeter comparison, in an acoustically dead room, any differences in that area, to me, have been inconsequential.

Well, thank you all for your help...now I've gone and done it!

I just bought a pair of black M60v3's from the factory outlet/auction page for the minimum...$889.00. No other bidders and I wasn't spiked! (if that's even possible there)

They still have the full 5 year warranty and the 30 day return policy.

The M60's were what I was leaning towards from the start but got "off track" with all the glowing reports on the M80's.

These are essentially the same as my M2's with woofers and a larger cabinet so I am hoping they sound similar in the mids and highs.

My 3808 has Audyssey XT so I am hoping that will flatten out the 2dB broad mid dip and the broad bass peak that I see in the NRC graph.

--Mark--

Congratulations! I am sure you'll be very happy with them! Let us know your impressions once you set them up.

Thanks Bruno, I will.

I also have an older VP100 center on the way that should be here today.

I'll be seeing how it compares to my old Phase Technology PC Center that I'm not real happy with off to the sides.

Anything I should know about older model VP100's?

--M--

Is the VP100 to be used with the M60s? Personally I had the VP150 and I didn't like the way it blended with the M80s, that's why I switched to the VP180. Others with a VP100 may be of more help.

The VP100 has been used succssfully with M60s and M80s (Tom and me). It might not be as spectacular as the 150 or the 180, but it does the job.

Good for you, MarkyM!

+1 to what Ken said. I like the VP100 with my M60's.

So, to recap, I basically tried to talk somebody into M80's and it didn't work. This is a forum first on both counts, I think.

Hope you will enjoy your speakers - I still really enjoy mine every day.

Thanks Guys,

The VP100 showed up just before I had to leave for work so I'll try it in my current system tonight. If it sounds decent and has better horizontal dispersion than my current center it'll be a keeper.

No, it didn't work so far :-) I'll see how I like the M60's and go from there. At that price, I couldn't pass up the chance to try them first.

--M--

I too have used my VP100 with my M80s and very briefly with a set of M60s I had prior to the M80s, The 100 does a very nice job with dialogue, it only lacks a little smoothness and low end that the floostanders have, not to say the 100 is harsh or anything. Until upradeitis hits you should be good with the 100, I went 4 years with it till I picked up the VP150 and hopefully next year I will have the VP180.

So, you're all set to order on 1/1/11?

What crossover frequency should I set for the VP100? (80, 90 or 100 Hz?)

Thanks,

--Mark--

It all depends on your room, placement, etc. I would start with 80hz if your calibrating manually.

Mine has always worked at 80hz, but each room is different, so try 80 as the starting point.

Thanks. I'll start with 80 Hz.

The old VP100 sounds just fine after an Audyssey run and with the xover set at 80Hz.

It does have better horizontal dispersion than my old (larger) center. I was worried that it wold sound thin in comparison but it does not and dialog is intelligible from all seats.

Not bad for $135!

--Mark--

Nice to hear you are happy with your purchase.

Woot!

Congratz on M60, i am sure you will be satisfied !

Thanks Philippe. I hope so.

--Mark--

Does anyone know how promptly Axiom ships orders from the factory outlet/auction page these days?

It sure would be nice to have the M60's for the long holiday weekend and I'm only 1-2 Ground days away from their warehouse in Buffalo.

Thanks,
--M--

The speakers on the auction page may not housed in Buffalo.

I don't know what their average is, but they shipped mine two business days after I paid.

OK, thanks. Fingers now crossed!
--M--

On FedEx Vehicle for Delivery!

The original delivery estimate was for Friday but they'll be here today! (good thing I took a vacation day today)

They did come from the Buffalo warehouse.

I really hope these work out. If they do, I'll have a pair of Mackie HR624 MkII's for sale at some point. (after one of them goes in for repair next week for a failed auto-on circuit).

The one thing the Mackies do really well is imaging, with their smoothly contoured aluminum front panel around the tweeter.
There are times when I thought the surrounds were on but I was listening in Stereo.

I'm hoping the M60's imaging is fairly close to those. But musicality is what I am hoping for more than anything. The Mackies are very clinical and "missing something" emotionally. The best way to describe it is that when playing a favorite rock tune, for example, everything is there and clear but they don't "Rock", if that makes any sense?

If these don't work out, I may have to bite the bullet and try Salk Songtowers. ($$$$...so I am rooting heavily for the M60's!!)

My little M2v2's Rock so I am hoping for the best.

--Mark--

My 824s are the same way. That means they're doing their job!

Looks like you're going to have a fun few days!

Do you do some recording/mixing Mark? Pro or semi-pro?

True, but I actually prefer mixing on the M2's now. (with a small sub) Of course they are located right at my DAW as nearfields so that helps. I don't have room near the computer for the Mackies. I used to use a laptop with Remote Desktop while sitting in the sweet spot of the Mackies in my HT system but that ws kinda klunky. I then bought the M2's and was very pleasantly surprised!

So I think I may be on the right track since the HT system is used mostly for HT and music listening now.

Maybe I'll keep the Mackies for checking mixes etc. if the M60's will fit set up next to them. In any case, it will be interesting comparing them before I send the one in for repair.


Yes indeed!

--M--

Kind of... I own a video production company, so audio recording/mixing etc... kind of falls under that category. I have on occasion recorded bands and individual musicians, but mostly it's VO talent in a sound booth.

OK, cool. So you have the Mackies at work in the studio and the Axioms at home then, correct?

Which Axioms do you have?

Do you find that your mixes translate pretty well to the Axioms?

--M--

Too much Seagrams makes many an amature feel talented.

I ordered mine from the auction house last Saturday, and they shipped today (Weds).

Got 'em today! See my other thread about my "interesting out-of-box experience".
--M--

Ah, guess I was a little late then. :p