The premise being, you have about $1500 +/- to blow on A/V gear.

I have a choice to make.

I have been replacing my vinyl speakers to real wood speakers in my wee lil' HT room for a year or so. The room is 12' wide by 18' deep, 9' ceiling height. I currently have M80ti's for the R/L speakers and all others are late model V2's. I have a VP160 on order. When it arrives, I'll have a set of M22's to use - somewhere, or just collect dust, or give them to one of my buddies who doesn't have a lot of disposable income for A/V gear.

My choices are:

Buy a 4311 and use the M22's for "Wide" speakers. As my room is pretty small, I'm not real sure how effective wide speakers will be. They would essentially be placed slightly forward of the mains. The mains are roughly 9' apart now as my screen width is 8'. The other benefit to moving to this AVR is that I can pass 3D through it. But, that's not a deal breaker as my VP has two outputs and I can send audio to my 3808 and send video to my projector. It's just convenient to have the 3808 in the chain to see the 3808's menu on my screen.

Buy another set of M80's. M80's are complete overkill for a room this size, but I am one of those "enough is never enough" kind of guys. But, the M80's do interfere with the screen viewing due to their height.

Buy a set of M60's. I had originally planned to swap out the M80's with M60's. The main reason was the reduced height from M80's. 2.5" would help a bit.

You're room is bigger than my future HT room and I plan on going with 3 M80's across the front behind an acoustically transparent screen. I opt for option #4. Buy one M80 and 1 AT screen (although, probably cost more than $1500, but I think a better option). You'd have to swap the VP160 order to an M80 order, which would free up $460. Use a 10 foot screen. (I'd opt for a 2.40:1 if possible.)

Or we could pair up your M22's with my VP150 and start a nice little setup for someone...

I am using (get this) M60 fronts with a huge VP180 center and four QS8s in my 14' wide x 24' long x(not quite)8' high theater build...

The "get this" part is that I bought the VP180 from the auction site new from Axiom, before there was mention of a VP160, and the VP180 sits 10 feet from me, out of its box, but still wrapped in the packaging plastic while I finish my basement.

Oh, and my VP150 sits right next to it. Waiting for some purpose in life (like your M22s)...

I voted M80. IMHO the term 'overkill' doesn't apply to AV stuff.

I voted m80 as well. I'd love to have some have real wood m80's.

Real wood M80's all the way. I think width speakers in a room that size would be retarded ineffective.

I can't beleive I am saying this but I voted for M60's. I went this route as it would help with the view and as this is a HT and not for music (IIRC you have a 2 channel system for that correct?) I feel the M60s are more than ample and clear/clean enough for movie playback.

Yes Jason... This room is for Movies. I can't sit still long enough to just sit and listen to music, so my music listening is generally the other system, loud enough to hear all over the house.

I'm not changing the screen, so AT is out. Bottom of screen is 35" from the floor, so I need horizontal center (or the M22's).

Tom - go to your room. You friggin nut.. lol

This is an easy decision, the 4311 hands down due to MultiXT32 and having wides. To me, this combo was a huge upgrade to my movie watching experience. My 1 cent...

Especially with you having dual subs, MultiXT32 is specifically designed to eq 2 subs. Something to think about...

Mike, just from what you've described, I'd also suggest getting the 4311 and using the M22s for wides. Dean probably has experimented the most with height and wide speakers and was reasonably enthusiastic about using M2s or M22s as wides, so if he sees this, hopefully he'll add some comments.

Thanks. I'm wondering just how effective width channels are in a fairly narrow room though?

I guess you'll let us know?

Check with Audyssey. They have an active site and they did research to answer these questions specifically.

Yeah, I wondered that too.

From my room.

Mike, keep in mind that "wide" doesn't necessarily mean that the speakers have to be out wider than the mains. It's the angle from which the sound is projected that has to be wider than the mains. About 60 degrees off the center line, rather than the 30 degrees typical for the mains, is suggested. The width speakers could be along the side wall maybe five feet forward of the mains and toed-in toward the listening position.

Thanks... in my room, the furthest forward of the mains that I could place them would be roughly 30" (driver to driver distance)..

I would choose the wide speaker option or M60s.
You won't really notice much in a difference of M60 vs M80 except in the lower end which the subs can be used for easy correction.
What's the point in paying more?

Our media room could easily fit the M80s, but i never saw the point. A bigger speaker in a smaller room is actually harder to place to adjust in making a good stereo image and soundstage. Smaller speakers have way more flexibility for placement (although the M60s won't add much of a benefit in size regard over the M80 except mostly for height and a bit of depth).

I have found, through hours of experimenting, that my M80's require 12" clearance from behind, and about 9" from the side wall. It would be helpful if the M60's could tolerate less clearance, like six inches. Just how much distance do you have between the walls Chess?

Interesting.... M80's have 46% of the vote.

That troubles you, doesn't it?

China troubles me to some degree Tom, audio gear....neh.

I'm glad that you pointed this out, I didn't think of if this way before. I always imagined that you would have to have a "wide" room to make it work.

Well, we have a subwoofer on one side of the M60 toward the wall and on the other side we have an audio rack.
So distances from the side walls is in the range of 2-3 feet. Distance from the rear wall is pretty much set based on the TV depth and i always wish i had just 2 or 3 more feet to play with in this regard.

I've never been too concerned about the distances, but in a smaller room, much closer to a wall, you could notice a small boost in sound reflections and bass (maybe).
It is hard to tell since you cannot simultaneously move a speaker and listen to it in two locations instantaneously.
I would be inclined to trust a frequency response measurement at a fixed location instead.

Likely because there is a longstanding bias on forums (often by use of the term "upgrade"), that larger are better than..., more expensive is better than...

You have a smaller room; a bigger speaker won't help your situation.

But a nice glass of Napa Pinot probably will.

Get the best ...M60s!




runs and hides

M60's on order!! Along with another set of QS8's. Ha, and I bet you guys thought for sure I'd get M80's..

Living your sig line, eh Mike?

Real wood finish?

yes, it was essential for me to upgrade.....


"Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is the noble art of leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials."

Ya I know, I'm a hypocrite.

No no! I was actually thinking that you got the M60's since that extra tweeter and midrange aren't "essential".

Sorry. My bad.

Oh...oh yes, of course, that's exactly why I did it..LOL

It was absolutely essential for me to tear the vette's engine apart to 'upgrade' it too!

You've got good toys.

What finish did you get, more of the same?

Ya, same finish... Well, the fronts anyway. The Q's are Walnut, natural, semi-gloss.

Well to conclude the much anticipated drama over my choice (yawn)... I went with M60's. But because I felt bad not going with the most popular vote (M80's), I caved and ordered a 4311 too.

I voted the M100 Mike

Ya I figured that was you, trouble maker that you are and all...