M80 HP and VP180 stranded match??

Posted by: shin204

M80 HP and VP180 stranded match?? - 03/11/16 08:01 AM

I was just wondering if the m80 hp and the vp180 stranded will match in terms of sound since the m80 has 2 different drivers? This will be more for movies since I listened to 2 channel for music. I wonder if I should of gotten the Hp version instead?
Posted by: Mojo

Re: M80 HP and VP180 stranded match?? - 03/11/16 11:40 AM

You need to talk with Axiom about the sound pressure level you want to achieve with the VP180 and the frequency you are planning to cross it over to your sub.

If you are to believe the specs on the VP180 page, you should be able to drive it to around 115dB before compression takes place. Likely however, compression will start before that on the low end. If you are crossing over to a sub at around 40Hz or more, you will not need the HP in my opinion.
Posted by: exlabdriver

Re: M80 HP and VP180 stranded match?? - 03/11/16 01:06 PM

shin:

I believe that you are going to drive yourself crazy by second guessing all the time.

The difference in sound in the real world will be absolutely negligible, especially if you are using a decent sub or two. My VP160 is teamed up with M22s that don't have the 6.5" drivers that the VP160 does; however, they complement each other flawlessly.

While nice to have identical drivers in all of the speakers across the front, in the real world, timber matching is way over hyped IMO...

TAM
Posted by: shin204

Re: M80 HP and VP180 stranded match?? - 03/11/16 01:11 PM

Originally Posted By Mojo
You need to talk with Axiom about the sound pressure level you want to achieve with the VP180 and the frequency you are planning to cross it over to your sub.

If you are to believe the specs on the VP180 page, you should be able to drive it to around 115dB before compression takes place. Likely however, compression will start before that on the low end. If you are crossing over to a sub at around 40Hz or more, you will not need the HP in my opinion.


Thanks. I'll try crossing it over to the sub at 60hz. One last question, I read something at audioholic that you're not supposed to cross different frequency from each speakers to the sub because it may not sound right for the bass management and recommends you to keep all your speaker to 80hz.
Posted by: MatManhasgone

Re: M80 HP and VP180 stranded match?? - 03/11/16 02:08 PM

Originally Posted By shin204

Thanks. I'll try crossing it over to the sub at 60hz. One last question, I read something at audioholic that you're not supposed to cross different frequency from each speakers to the sub because it may not sound right for the bass management and recommends you to keep all your speaker to 80hz.


And there lies the issue with most receivers in they use a general catch all for all speakers and not give a crossover for the sub.

The thought of 80hz is they make believe that you cannot tell directionality at sounds below 80hz. BS. The number is also to allow for lower sounds to come from speakers that are not designed to make those sounds.

If your receiver allows for you to get some overlap. Ie you can set your front M80 to cross over to the sub at 60hz, but have your surrounds and sub set to 80hz. That way the semi directional sound from 65-85hz can come from both the fronts and the sub at the same time and will feel more like it's coming from everywhere assuming the subs are not right beside the fronts.
Posted by: exlabdriver

Re: M80 HP and VP180 stranded match?? - 03/11/16 05:17 PM

Audyssey 'hears' both my VP160 & my M22s at 40 Hz in my room.

I set both crossovers at 60 Hz just to be contrarian to the herd I guess. Works for me...

TAM
Posted by: brendo

Re: M80 HP and VP180 stranded match?? - 03/11/16 08:43 PM

With most newer receivers there's a speaker range and a subwoofer range setting. Having them different say 40 mixed with 80 shouldn't mismatch.
I have my subs at 80hz with my fronts large{40hz} and center Vp160 at 60hz and surrounds at 80hz no problem.

That 80hz all around is more of a THX recommendation, than anything else. The different channels in your receiver should cross them over without being to big a difference in channel separation.
Posted by: shin204

Re: M80 HP and VP180 stranded match?? - 03/11/16 09:43 PM

Originally Posted By oakvillematt
Originally Posted By shin204

Thanks. I'll try crossing it over to the sub at 60hz. One last question, I read something at audioholic that you're not supposed to cross different frequency from each speakers to the sub because it may not sound right for the bass management and recommends you to keep all your speaker to 80hz.


And there lies the issue with most receivers in they use a general catch all for all speakers and not give a crossover for the sub.

The thought of 80hz is they make believe that you cannot tell directionality at sounds below 80hz. BS. The number is also to allow for lower sounds to come from speakers that are not designed to make those sounds.

If your receiver allows for you to get some overlap. Ie you can set your front M80 to cross over to the sub at 60hz, but have your surrounds and sub set to 80hz. That way the semi directional sound from 65-85hz can come from both the fronts and the sub at the same time and will feel more like it's coming from everywhere assuming the subs are not right beside the fronts.


That makes a lot of sense. So set the m80 to 60hz, surround and center to 80hz have the sub play from 80hz? Is 60hz the sweet spot for the m80 hp or can it go lower?
Posted by: MatManhasgone

Re: M80 HP and VP180 stranded match?? - 03/12/16 08:53 AM

I chose the 60hz for two reasons. it's the point that the speaker starts to naturally decay off on it's ability to produce sound. Hopefully the receiver doesn't handle crossover points as a cliff that drops off to nothing, but as a point pleasantly decay down. Secondly as that is the point that the current requirements start to aggressively ramp up to drive the speaker for the lower hz sound.

Now if you are driving these speakers with a competent amp, then you can inch the crossover lower. The limiting factor for most is not the speaker but the amp that is driving the speaker to deliver clean power without clipping in a moving piece.
Posted by: shin204

Re: M80 HP and VP180 stranded match?? - 03/14/16 10:58 PM

I have question about Room correction. If I wanted to EQ and flatten out bass bump at the lower frequency and leave the high frequency alone, what would the cut off frequency be at? 150hz?? My receiver default cut of is 5khz.
Posted by: TroyD

Re: M80 HP and VP180 stranded match?? - 03/30/16 07:51 AM

Yes the M80's go lower than 60hz and quite well.
Also,it is not a hard cutoff at the crossover points. Even though your receiver is set to cross over the Lower Frequencies at 80hz there's a slope set to say -6db. The sub probably starts working at 90hz although -6db by the time the 80hz it's at equal level to the 80hz reference point of the system you adjusted before setting the crossovers. if your M80's are set at 60hz, it's a gradual roll off they still play 58hz, 50, 40hz although not very much that you would even notice.

I find it ridiculous to buy these M80 HP in a home theatre setup to cut them off at 60hz. Just seems to be a waste, if your not using the low frequencies and just using the upper bass and highs the M22 have the identical drivers that are being used and play down to 60 hz. and $2500 cheaper. For 2.0 music in 2ch ok got a case for them. And you can say the bass on the sound stage is better if in ful range, well yeh ok but most put thier subs up front on stage and if not, I am sorry I do not sit up on stage I sit 12 ft back and the subs take care of the bottom end quite fine. Now if playing at extreme volumns, 100db then yeh towers.
I think having towers is more to kill two birds with on stone cheap. unless of course your room is huge, but for a normal person my room is 12x15x7 and the M22 are quite loud as it is.
Posted by: Mojo

Re: M80 HP and VP180 stranded match?? - 03/30/16 08:52 AM

I've listened to the M22s v2 with a sub and they are not equivalent to M80s v2. There are big differences in soundstage, presence and mid-range. I find the M22 v2 "thin" or "lean" compared to the M80 v2. I can't speak to other versions.
Posted by: brwsaw

Re: M80 HP and VP180 stranded match?? - 03/30/16 09:41 PM

....Where did I put that flame suit?
There's a difference M80 to M80HP let alone a smaller speaker. It could be that the V4 is to blame for the difference in SQ but it's there. They just sound better.
Posted by: Mojo

Re: M80 HP and VP180 stranded match?? - 03/30/16 11:08 PM

M80 and M80HP sound different at "normal" volumes? I define normal as a couple of Watts with 20 Watt peaks.
Posted by: spiroh

Re: M80 HP and VP180 stranded match?? - 03/31/16 11:10 AM

I recently upgraded my M80ti to M80v4 and my M22v3 to M22v4. First of all there are noticeable differences going from the "m80ti" to the m80v4 and also the same was noticed going from the M22v3 to the M22v4. I'm extremely happy I used Axiom's trade in program to upgrade my setups. Long story short the differences that I noticed right away is that the V4's are smoother sounding but do not lose any of that detail that Axiom is known for. I have my M80's set up in the family room that is 13x21x8 and then I have the M22's set up in my office which is 8x12x7. Both sound very similar. I would agree with Mojo that there are differences in the soundstage and presence. I'm giving them similar power and currently have the crossover set on both to 80hz. M80's can easily go down to 40hz and sound VERY good and have good bass output. I actually like having them at 60hz but I'm testing out 80hz for the time being. M22's in my opinion sound best at 80hz so depending on your sub, having the flexibility to go lower than 80hz might be important.