I have a Denon AVR 3808CI powering a pair of M 100 tower speakers with a VP180 centre speaker 4 Qs8s. I have $4000 to spend. Should I get a power amp like the 1500 or get a EP800.
What would give me the best bang for the buck?

I'd say it depends on what you'd like to improve or where you find your current system lacking. Do you have a sub already? If not I'd say go for the EP. However if you've got good bottom end already and find you're running out of headroom then go for more power. However getting a sub may also clean things up as the M100's won't have to play the low end which is offloaded to the sub and the amp won't have to power those frequencies giving it a tad more room to operate as well. I think the EP unless you already have a sub. Anyway that's my 2 cents without knowing your specific details. Smarter minds than mine will be along soon I'd guess to give better perspective :-)

Cheers,

I'd try for both...

Of course - should have stated the obvious!

pulling the front 3 off the receiver you have would help significantly. I don't know if getting an EP800 is needed when you can get just as good sound from the smaller EP500 as significantly less cost. Unless you are trying for the ultra low 10-15hz sounds. I'd say you'd get far more bang and bass for your buck getting two EP500's than a single PS800.

I have the LFR1100 and got a pair of EP500's and the rarely need to kick in. I do have a pair of the ADA1000 which BTW are more than enough to power most rooms.

I would recommend trying the amp first vs the sub. My first separate amp did wonders on the low end with speakers costing alot less than your M100's. I was using a receiver for processing at the time.

Just to put it into perspective. The receiver that you have is supposed to be giving you 160w@8ohm.. but that might be optimistic. But your speakers are really running at 4ohm, so you might be getting between 60-80w. The major limiting factor inside the receiver is the power supply. it doesn't really have a big one, and next to no capacitance to give you reserve headroom.

The ADA1000 has a large transformer and can deliver a true 250w of power to your 3 speakers all driven full range. (something I doubt the Denon could ever do). You will be running the speakers with 4x the wattage and actual current to drive them.

Now I know that the ADA1500 is much bigger. It can in 3 channel drive 500w of power. The question you need to decide on is if you really need that much?

for tjhe same cost of a 3 channel ADA1500-3 you can buy an ADA1000-3 and a pair of EP500 and that would likely give you far better sound than buying a larger amp that you might never really get full use out of, or a really big sub that you not have to find the sonic sweet spot for.

just something to think about.

I had the exact receiver driving my M80's and the power on these is legit. They are actually very much in demand due to the power they have because the newer receivers are not built like this one is. I would try for both upgrades but if I had to do one or the other in your situation I would do the sub.

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/de...I9LgGDMxeiA5.97

his graph shows that the AVR-3808CI’s left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 186.7 watts and 1 percent distortion at 210.9 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 238.9 watts and 1 percent distortion at 277.3 watts.
Read more at http://www.soundandvision.com/content/de...lfzcZ2KlLsqR.99

The problem with these numbers Spiroh is they don't include dynamic headroom. I would say for the vast majority of listeners, the power of that Denon is more than adequate. But for those who have a need for "more" power, the numbers are misleading. If one listens with 50W nominal for example to well-recorded music, the Denon would run out of power because it doesn't appear from any of the photos I've seen to have any reserves.

Spiroh.. the example graph referenced might as well be written on Toilet Paper as the content is pretty much suspect

As your graph shows they just took a single speaker to measure, that is fine. What the graph fails to mention is what tone frequency it was testing at? They do give all channels driven at 8-ohm, but not at 4. The unit published can get 130w @ 8ohm. The ADA1000 only does 125 at 8ohm, but actually can double down when you drive a 4ohm speaker. The numbers for the Denon doesn't show that.

So does that mean that the unit will run out of power from the power supply if running all speakers at 4ohm as with that resistance, you'd need double the current to drive the speakers. What might work at 8ohm does not mean it will work at 4.

They talk about a % of distortion, but without knowing what frequencies were tested and how the frequencies were played.. (ie a linear sweep from 10hz to 2000hz or was it a ping-pong sweep or a fixed sample?) And this is only with 2 speakers driven so you are using far less of the power supply reserves than trying to do the same test in a HT setup with all the speakers driven where you are more likely to get clipping.

Not saying the receiver is not a good unit. for the vast majority of people it will be excellent. But here, the OP is driving a far more power hungry speakers than most that would not be a problem just as long as you don't turn up the volume too loud.

The EP800 can produce very deep base and has it's own amp so yes you can help out a bit from taking that demand off the receiver. If you want to cut the bass management to say 120hz then you'd save quite a bit of power. then what is the point of getting M100s? you might a well just have purchased a pair of bookshelf M22 or the new M5HP as you've just cut the speaker off at the knees. You buy a full frequency speaker generally to get full frequency. The cost of doing so however is it need enough clean power to get there.

I was just pointing out with a lower cost external amp is you don't need knee jerk reaction. Your receiver might show really big numbers but it doesn't mean you-re getting those number in real life. So if your speakers are clipping, moving to a properly designed external amp, you may not need really huge numbers. If an external amp can deliver a true 250w @ 4 ohms, that might be more than enough if your receiver is only really giving you a true 60-80w @ 4ohms when taxes all channels driven. Why pay for 600w if your never going to use it.

Pretty sure if you had 600w you would notice the additional clarity during loud scenes and with heavy/low bass in music.
During gun fire, explosions, crisp clear snaps, ratta tat tat, caboooom, even stripper clips springing out....more is better.
When your mind believes it, nothing else matters.
I want an ADA 1500.
I want an EP800.
I like the v4 tweeter too.
I wonder what would happen if you used one v3 tweeter and one v4 tweeter in each tower?

It's going to be used for transimpeding.

I picked up on of the 1250s back in the fall sale. The clarity is quite noticeable especially with a lower setting through my M80s and VP160. A lower setting 60 or 40Hz has the power to go. My VP160 seems much fuller in the lower notes, as to what I was experiencing with it trough my A.V.R.

Though as to whether or not the amount of power is overkill, is so subjective {Party day, showing off to friends, reference movies etc.} Mainly get the most power you can is a great rule.

I think the 1500 has to be a totally awesome unit from my experience with the ADA1250.

GO for it!!!

Tom, it appears that you have an excellent setup, so the first question might be would the $4,000 that you "have to spend" be better spent on something more beneficial to your present or future well-being than more audio equipment.

Your M100s are of average sensitivity and are quite easy to drive with quality amplification such as your 3808 provides. It's ironic that the one area of audio which is governed by legal regulations(the amplifier power regulations of the FTC)often is a subject of suspicion. As the linked lab tests show, the 3808 is rated slightly conservatively. At a typical comfortably loud average listening level your M100s use about 1 watt. Brief peaks require much more of course, but the 3808 provides over 20dB of headroom above the average level.

If you listen to pipe organ music requiring more bass than the already excellent M100s provide, or watch movies having extensive very low frequency effects, then a sub such as the EP800 would be of significant benefit to your listening experience.

Oh nuts, that's two threads talking about transimpeding now. One more and I'm going to have to go learn something about it.

As far as this thread goes I guess we're going to need to see if Tom_in_Kerwood already has a hefty sub.

If you're an amp but desparately want to be a volt, transimpedance can help you!

I hear there's a new therapy for that!

I don't see why an amp would want to become a volt. The volts just sit there while the amps get all the action.