hey folks! 10yr 5.1 Axiom owner here: M80s (v2), VP150, QS8s, ADA-1500 (big vaulted room!), Onkyo 805, FLAC files stored on PC, Sonos wifi network.
In stereo mode, with just the M80s, either the sound has deteriorated or I've become more picky over the years, but I find the upper midrange annoying- as I get fatigued by it quickly. After 20 minutes of listening, even at moderate volumes, I need to turn it off.
I'm wondering....I originally had files stored as Apple Lossless, and managed with iTunes. A couple years back I had some file corruption problems (that Andrew helped me to identify), and converted everything to FLAC (I forget the program name that I used to make the Apple Lossless to FLAC conversion). I'm worried more corruption may have happened to the files.
SO..I'm considering starting all over again. Maybe building a dedicated Windows based server, but at least ripping my CDs again and making fresh FLAC files directly from the CDs.
Good idea? if so...what program for ripping and managing is recommended these days? I like to keep it simple..I'm no IT genius.
For my Sonos system...would putting a DAC in the stream somewhere (downstream from the Sonos Connect?) help?
My system images great, with amazing soundstage, but like I said the upper midrange is too much, and I'd love to gain some 3D clarity. There's a Deep Forest track, "Savana Dance", that has a great 3D effect of a toy train running around your head that I can't get with my system (that I used to with my old Legacy Classic speakers).
Sorry for the long post. You folks are always so helpful. Let me know if this post belongs somewhere else.
Cheers- Brady
Brady
My choice for ripping and converting files is DBpoweramp though i am sure others have recommendations as well. Since i dont know u at all i will ask your age and occupation. I am north of 50 and work as a mechanic and my hearing is not what it used to be. Have your speakers always been in the same room? Vaulted ceilings are not kind to music or conducive to good 2 channel. Does your rig have any room correction system and have you treated your room at all with absorptive materials and wall treatments to diffract the audio waves. More questions than answers but it is important to find the root cause and get a sense of your room.
After I learned the hard way, the most important when ripping is to make sure to enable read and ripping verification. It slows down the process, but since I have started to use those features some 5000 CDs ago, I have never had a bad track again. Used to be a bad surprise for a least 2% and then, when I re-scanned everything, I found over 20% of my older rips had some errors in it (most not consciously audible).
dbPowerAmp is a good tool, very flexible. Not the easiest to use in all cases, but you will never get disappointed with the results.
Good ideas all- I too have heard good things about DBpoweramp. I'm 47, so hearing is still fine. I think. My wife may disagree
Yep, room is tough. Still get pretty good imaging and big soundstage though. I make sure all curtains are closed when intently listening. Hanging run on the big wall behind hte system. Might be reflections going on in the upper mid range to cause the problem.
I have the same system as you except with the Onk 818 and an EP600 v2. I don't have an external amp. I'm in a 4200 ft^3, under-damped room.
I listened to your track on Spotify with the highest SQ possible, PLII processing with panorama mode turned off. I had no problem hearing the train circling around my 7.1 system. In fact, I can also hear the circling in stereo but not as distinctly.
It's well known that continuous listening to pieces with heavy mid-range spectral content can be fatiguing. Maybe you are listening to music for longer periods now than before?
Having said that, there is a clarity, realism, transparency and presence to the upper mid-range on the v2 that unfortunately lends itself to sounding fatiguing at higher SPLs even when amplifier limits aren't being exceeded. Perhaps this was taken care of on the v4.
I was over at my buddy's last night listening to his KEFs. They were easy-sounding but at the expense of reduced transparency and "resolution". I find them good for movies but can't listen to music on them because it sounds like there's a veil over the sound source.
Honestly sometimes all it takes is to move your speakers around a bit. Consider moving them away from the wall, spread them apart, try toeing them in/out etc.
It might be time to try the v4!
yup, always time to trade up
The train circling should be clearly heard in stereo mode. Its an incredible imaging effect for sure.
Another test song that does still sounds great on my system (and always turns heads when I test systems in stores) is "Por Ti" off of Mariza's Fado em Mim album. great dynamics, and separation.
Yes, I've played around with pulling the speakers way out, pushing them apart more, toeing them way in. Again, overall great imaging and sound-stage, but that upper mid is a killer. I'll play around with less aggressive toe-ins.
I recommend against toeing them in or out as it destroys the "family of curves". So does heavy room treatment.
I've had pretty good luck with the side walk of the speaker being parallel to the side wall, almost straight forward. Fwiw.
Just installed dBpoweramp and started the re-rip process. Went with "8" setting (because space is cheap, and why not). Any other setting I should focus on?
Thanks again. There are few forums that I can count on for solid advise. Axiom is definitely one of them! You all have a serious drive for great sound reproduction without the high dollar hype. (I still can't believe multi-thousand dollar cables are STILL being marketed and bought!)
Have you spoken to Ian about the possibility of a component change in perhaps a crossover in a speaker or another change in the mid drivers? does one or both of your speakers get direct sun exposure during the day?
I have a pair of vintage Cerwin Vega 12T towers in walnut veneer which were purchase in 1975. Over time they changed in sound quality from what I had started with. Also one speaker which was near the windows faded quite a lot from the sun UV.
I ended up having the crossovers serviced and the woofers re-coned at one point and it made a huge difference. However the mids were not serviced and with more time, they started to sound very harsh to me. I was considering more service work, howver Cerwin Vega was not the same outfit, they had been purchased by the Chinese and replacement parts was out of the equation.
I spent less time using my system as it just wasn't pleasing any longer, then last year I took a lightning hit which blew outlets out of the wall and rocked the circuit with my sound system on it. I lost everything, including the CV 12T's; the speaker wire terminals on one speaker were literally blown apart.... the speakers were toast. OK, finally upgrade time!
Thanks to a good insurance policy, I ultimately replaced everything with a Parasound A51 amp, Anthem AVM60 preamp and Bryston Model T's along with other items I decided to go up on too. All I can say is, wow, I had no idea what I was missing in sound as the degradation of the older equipment was so gradual that you don't notice it until one day it just grates on you for some reason.
Now I keep the speaker by the windows under the black cover bag which comes with it until I use it. I have to keep that beautiful wood veneer looking fresh.
I've decided to rip all CDs directly to FLAC (nearly there), then play around with placement. Also playing around with surround sound (PLII) settings, which is interesting. Pretty sure I prefer stereo mode ("pure" on my Onkyo AVR). Still getting the upper midrange peak, but it could be me. I'm ordering a Radio Shack SPL meter to help make this more objective.
I have not spoken to Axiom about upgrades...yet....Maybe going to the v4 versions will help, but I'd like to spend the dough right now (young kids tend to be expensive....). But someday, that omnidirectional option looks mighty tempting.
Thanks for the ideas!
I used to despise PLII for music when I was 8 feet away from my M80s and the sides were behind me. Then I moved 14 feet away from the M80s and the sides are now in front of me. I thought I had a wide sound stage before but now...holy mackerel! The effect is nothing short of amazing. Of course none of it would be possible if the M80s weren't 11 feet apart and 5 feet from each sidewall.
Fatigue is directly related to distortion.
I would check a few things. First, snug up the fasteners of your drivers and tweeters. Dont overtighten. Second, consider your room's interaction with you and your loudspeakers. What is the environment like? Have you moved things around or introduced furniture that is resonating or causing unnatural focused energy on a narrow band? Third, if your playback setup is a computer have you ruled out an update or setting somewhere that is causing dynamic compression?
Sidenote
Ripping to Flac will not improve upon a CD if that is your understanding. It is just a more efficient storage container. It is a convenience to have your files on a NAS server, but since Spotify or Tidal offer excellent sound quality, ripping CDs isnt worth the headache anymore.
$10 a month. No brainer.
Get rid of the Onkyo. Not all receivers sounds the same. Room treatments too. Hardwood floors?
I get much better soundstage/imaging when I spread the M80s out for sure. PLII does sound good, but I think I prefer stereo. As I'm in a great room, I might not have the right room for it though.
I've had the same gear/room for the whole ten years. I'll check the drivers and make sure they are snug.
It might all be in my head too. Meaning, the upper mid was pronounced before but I didn't notice or care. But now that I'm being more critical, I notice more.
Does Spotify/Tidal offer high quality compression streams? I know I"m not improving the quality of my CDs, just storing on NAS like you say. THere were originally ripped as Apple Lossless, but I had some problems with a few tracks, so transferred everything to FLAC. But I'm worried I didn't convert properly, so am re-ripping everything directly to FLAC. I've got a number of obscure albums that would surprise me to find out Spotify carries.
Thanks again guys - Brady
You could also try tilting them back.
At one time I used/took the back feet and double stacked the front.The rear of the cabinet touched the floor. It looked cool but in your case it might help lift the highs so less of what you currently don't like doesnt hit your ears while seated.
One final thought, IMHO the quality of the recording is the most important. Compressed files really suck the life out of good music.
yea, thus everything in FLAC (no compression, right? or lossless, with minimal compression setting).
I'm also going to see if the SONOS DAC is better than the Onkyo. I currently run a digital fiber optic line from the Sonos to the Onkyo and let the AVR do the conversion (which supposedly has a decent DAC), but I've read the Sonos might be better at that? Who the hell knows.
I'll try the tilting idea- never thought of that. I do that for the center channel for obvious reasons.
(fighting upgrade-itis here!! the VP160 looks so nice)
With FLAC, the level of "compression" has only an incidence on file size and possible increased difficulties on very old low-performance decoders. It is 100% lossless in all cases. Not to be confused with "dynamic compression" which would happen during mixing to make everything louder.
In FLAC, the level of compression has very little if any influence on the amount of processing power required for the decompression of the music file. The thought behind FLAC was to develop a compression format that put all the resource requirements into the compression end, but have a very low requirement for the decompression when you listen to the sound file.
You have to remember that FLAC is a lossless compression. Think a ZIP file for music. You get out exactly what you put into it, just in a smaller amount of required space for storage.
By comparison, the lovely MP3, and even Apples M4A are a lossy compression. It gets a much smaller file by removing data from the source during the compression. The thought was that the human ear is not that sensitive and certain sounds can be compressed without making a radical change to the sound you hear. so if removing complexity to the sound can save some space they do it to achieve a bitrate of data in the file. The smaller the bitrate, the more data that is removed from the sound to achieve it.
I'm moving my setup into a much smaller room, and no longer need my ADA-1500-3 amp (which has been awesome for the huge great room my system was in).
Is there a forum for selling used gear here? or... any recommendations for selling Axiom gear?
Thanks
There is no buy and sell on this forum but i would recommend audiogon or Canuckaudiomart , i sold an amp on kiji so i recommend that. Its hard selling now because everyone wants a piece of the action, tax's, handling fee's and shipping. I found someone that had faith and sent me the money and i sent him the amp but that is rare. I stood to lose way too much selling on ebay where they take taxes off, British colombia has 12% tax which is stupid to charge tax on something that had tax paid on it when it was new. Good luck End Rant.,