I'm contemplating 2 upgrades:

1) EP175 to EP500
2) VP150OW to VP180OW

The rest of my HT system would stay the same: 2xM22OW, 2xQS4, 2xM3 ceiling all powered by an Onkyo TX-NR656 in ATMOS configuration. This set-up is 90% Home Theater/Xbox use. For 2ch music, I listen elsewhere.

I'm fairly convinced of the subwoofer upgrade and will be emailing Ian and company soon for a quote as I'd like to pick it up directly in Dwight in July and possibly get something back on the EP175 (it was a refurb) and save on shipping. (We cottage in the area every year, lucky us!)

However, I'm not as sure the VP upgrade would be as noticeable and I'd be doing it more for aesthetics (I think the VP180 would look better under my 65" TV than the VP150). Would the VP180OW be overkill for the M22's (which I'm not changing, nor can afford to upgrade at the moment with Ian's customization offer :-p ).

Thoughts on the VP180 upgrade? Worth it from an audio point of view? I have no interest in the VP160OW.

My view is that some recent video releases put even more content in the center channel than the mains, so I am totally happy with the idea of center channel being beefier than the mains. I run VP180 center with M60 mains and have never doubted it was worth the $$.

Only difference is that I upgraded from VP100 rather than VP150 so more of a jump in terms of power/SPL handling in my case. That said, my impression is that you would also see a fair amount of the improvement in clarity and timbre matching that I saw going from VP100.

I don't remember if my EP500 is v2 or v3 (it's from late 2013) but apparently the v4 is even better. I run it alongside an old SVS cylinder tuned down to 16 Hz but the house is really one big open area so the subs are dealing with 4,000-5,000 cubic feet.

Anyways, after adding the EP500 and VP180 my system reached that magical point where I'm totally happy with it and don't even think about upgrading it further... at least not the speakers.

I can't think of a better way to spend your summers than hanging around the Axiom complex cottaging in the Muskokas.

I went from a VP150 to a VP180 back when they first came out. My mains are M60s and the VP180 makes them look small when put side by side.

That being said, I love the capabilities of the VP180. SOOOO much better than the VP150, and I liked the VP150 when I had it.

Like mentioned, there is so much information coming out of the center channel that it really is one of the most critical speakers in your setup. People used to think that it was just for dialog, and for a while that was the primary function, but that has changed many years ago and audio mixers continue to push more information to the center, so don't be afraid to "go big."

nick is correct. The majority of movie sound comes through the center channel now with the Left, Right & Surrounds only sporadically being used for effects.

Music Concert DVDs & Blu Rays seem to spread the sound more equally to all of the channels.

A large & capable Center is a must & both the 160 & 180 ably fulfill that role...

TAM

So... I emailed Debbie not too sure what to expect. My EP175 is a refurb and my VP150OW was a factory outlet. My expectations were low...

Debbie responded and my jaw literally hit the floor! What an amazing company. Making arrangements to pick-up my new EP500 and VP180OW in July!

Hi Pablo

Prediction: You are going to love your EP500 and VP180. I have one of each and appreciate the dynamic sound quality, clarity, punch and great improvement each has brought to my systems.

Those are both excellent upgrades, you'll notice the difference immediately. I went from the VP150 to 180, better in every respect...clarity, range, dynamics, authority. Where the 150 was good, the 180 is simply on a different level. I would expect the same with the subs when you compare the EP175 to 500.

Thanks everyone for aiding and abetting my confirmation bias :-)

I finalized everything with Debbie yesterday and now I'm really looking forward to picking them up at Axiom World Headquarters in Dwight, ON, in July. Debbie even invited me to take a tour!

Awesome

Now comes the anticipation of the next 3 months.
Here's hoping time doesn't decide to slow down.

Gives me time to decide if I need to upgrade my receiver to handle the 4ohm load. On the one hand, it will be the only 4ohm speaker in the setup and I'm upgrading the sub to handle the more power demanding lower end. On the other hand, my Onkyo TX-NR656 is only rated for 6ohm (though does spec 3,4, and 8 ohm dynamic capabilities).

My question is, am I more likely to damage my amp or speaker if my receiver is under powered? I only listen at moderately loud volumes for movies and my Onkyo is moderately well ventilated (maybe I need a fan in the cabinet when running movies?).

I went through a couple Onkyo's. With the 4ohm load a fan is highly recommended. Even Integra gets really warm with 4ohm. Haven't seen anything about any circuit melts or other problems they had with older models in recent units.

The AVR is more likely to take some clipping and go back to normal.
The speakers are in danger without a lot of power. Though not playing reference probably not a worry just keep an eye on the unit. They can get hot really fast.

The amp is what i would be concerned about and its ability to provide the necessary current required by the 4ohm load. This is relative to room size and volume level. Heat is your enemy, whether its an automatic transmission or you AVR you must expel the heat since the receiver is passively cooled adding a fan will help immensely. Think of heat like a slow death by a thousand paper cuts, it can be a slow death of your equipment by running the components at the high temp end of their specs.

These are popular https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01LW1Q4X9?tag=vs-avsforum-convert-cdn-20

Awesome, thanks GWN, I may just get one of these!

In preparation for receiving my new VP180OW and it's increased power demands at 4-ohm, I did get one of these T9 Cooling Fans and rearranged my media cabinet to make room for it.

I was skeptical it would make much of a difference but glad I made the purchase. Prior to adding the fan, I took a reading using an infrared thermometer at 3 points in a movie. My AVR started at 73F, was at 90F about 30 minutes in and was peaking at about 100F by the end. That's HOT!

Next I let everything cool down and rearranged my media cabinet to how it would be before I put on the T9 to see if the added breathing room would make a big difference. Not so much, even with the addition of 6" of space above it, the AVR peaked at around 100F.

Next I placed the T9 on top of my AVR and started the process again... AVR started at 73F, climbed to 85F (where I set the T9 to trigger), and bingo, fans kicked in and the T9 kept the AVR at between 80F-85F for the full 2 hours of the movie.

Thanks again Gr8 for the suggestion, hopefully I'll be able to run the VP180OW without issues next month

The important thing to realize imho is that even though the components in the AVR are rated to be safe for a certain temperature it best to keep the temp as low as possible since heat can cause damage that may not rear its head for years. Do you notice any noise from the T9 ,is it objectionable.

In one of my "experiments", I had the T9 always-on and max speed (setting 5). With the cabinet doors open, yes, the noise was "objectionable" during quiet scenes. At 21dBA it sounds like any other laptop fan. However, as soon as volume picked up in music/movies, it was lost. When I used to run a projector, the fans in that were actually louder.

That said, with the cabinet doors closed (but the cabinet is still open at the back), I could barely hear the fans at all.

Finally, under normal operating conditions, I have the T9 set to "smart" which usually means the fans only turn on after the AVR reaches 85F and it starts at fan speed 1. Even with the doors open, the T9 is silent at speed 1. I can only hear it at speed 3+.

Very happy with the product.

100F is actually very reasonable for any amp/avr. I think you'll find on average given a few variables, most will run 125-135F when you push them a bit. The Aircom units look like a worthwhile investment, I may pick up a couple myself.

100F is very reasonable driving 8ohm speakers. I was more concerned with what would happen driving a 4ohm speaker on a receiver that technically does not list it as a specification. The Aircom unit just buys me a little bit of peace of mind...

Finally! After 3 months of building excitement, I leave for Toronto cottage country tomorrow which includes a side trip to Dwight, ON, to visit Axiom World Headquarters and exchange my EP175 and VP150 for an EP500 and VP180!

I'll be sure to post my impressions of this upgrade/trade-up and what I thought of my visit to Axiom.

Thanks again everyone for the advice and encouragement in pulling this trigger. Everything is boxed up and ready for the trip tomorrow morning. Weather is 27C day/13C night all week. Simply perfect lake/golf/fishing weather!