I'm thinking I'll do some trading up combined with taking advantage of the Black Friday promotion.

I'm back and forth on two possibilities. My first thought is to trade up my VP180, my single M22, the two QS8s I replaced, as well as the two QS8s I'm currently using as rear surrounds, in order to purchase an LFR180 HP. I wouldn't be out much money after the trade-ups and discounts. I would simply make do without rear surrounds until later on, when I'm looking at filling out a proper Dolby Atmos setup. I figure when it comes time for that, in-ceiling speakers will be the final piece I'll buy, since I'm hoping by that time there will be another option specifically for people who want in-ceiling speakers but have low ceilings.

The other option would be to just trade up the single M22 and a pair of QS8s to replace the QS8s I'm still using with another pair of M5HPs. I'd hang on to one pair of QS8s to either give to a friend or use for a future trade up.

I'm leaning toward the LFR180, even though we haven't seen anyone who's purchased one come through and detail their impressions, unless I missed it. Would anyone from Axiom like to chime in on what it will do for me vs my current VP180? How does off-axis listening compare with it being omnidirectional? As good or better than a vertical center, or is the horizontal box always going to put it behind in that aspect?

What do you guys think? And are you guys going to take the plunge on anything this time around?

Charles, as you know I've already taken the plunge on completing my upgrade from v2 to v4. I am so glad I did!

In my room, I don't miss my two rear QS8s. I replaced my two side QS8s with QS10s and now enjoy vastly improved immersion, clarity, and special effects.

As for the LFR180, I am sure you know you'll need two amp channels. I think you'll also need it to be at least 6" away from the wall and not in a cabinet.

Is it the rear QS8s you want to replace with M5s?

Yes, it would be the rear surround channels. At most, they would be about 5' behind the seating, unless I figure out a different way to arrange. That's one reason I may just not worry about rear channels for a while.

Right now I have a spare amp channel on my ADA1000-4. I'm using two channels for QS8s and one channel for my VP180. Currently, my VP180 is almost 8" away from the wall, and on a bench, so I think I should be fine. It's about 8' away from the main listening position, so I'm not sure how much closer I'd want it to be, but it would be worth playing with the distance from the wall a little, I bet.

The M5s are rear-ported so you need to account for that unless you get wall-mounts. According to my ears, M5s will give you noticeably better performance than M3s and QS8s throughout the entire range.

There's not a wall behind where they'll be. I just didn't want to push them any further into the rest of the space. It's an open layout, but I want shelving for books separating the HT space from the dining/project area, and the rear surrounds would either be mounted to the shelving itself or resting on it.

Okay, my upgrade plans may be on hold. I suddenly have dental work being done, so we'll see how much ends up coming out of pocket. The timing!

I hate when dental work takes a bite out of my finances.

This hurt even more than not being able to upgrade.

Okay, I changed up my plan a little. All of my dental should be covered by my HRA, so it was a matter of getting reimbursed for what I already had to pay out of pocket since the card didn't work initially. It should be resolved now, and I finally saw the reimbursement amount in my checking today.

With that hopefully sorted, I decided I'd better go ahead and take advantage of the Black Friday deal. I'm holding off on the LFR180 for now, though, and I AM getting the other two M5HPs I wanted to replace the rear surrounds, along with stands for them. I'm trading up my 4 QS8s and single M22, so I'm not out much out of pocket, and I had a slight amount of PayPal balance to use up as well. Now I just need to communicate with Axiom and see how much I need to pay for return boxes and shipping labels for what I'm trading up. The only boxes I kept around are for the LFR1100s, apparently.

I've been impressed with the M5HPs as side surrounds! I haven't made a ton of time for Blu-rays lately, but when I have, they've been impressing me with their clarity and output. I still haven't done any experimenting with them as mains. Once I get the pair I just ordered, I'll try a single first as the center channel, see if it feels adequate vs. the VP180. I'm still unsure what I want to end up with as my center channel, or if I'll simply stick with the VP180 until down the road. It's not like it's not performing.

I'll be trying the M5 as a centre very soon. In my next iteration of my system, an M5 centre would fit better. It remains to be heard if it will sound better in my space.

I think the M5s would work well for you as rears. Do you really need 2? My Onk permits a single rear. How far from the MLP are your M5 sides BTW?

The sides are roughly 8' away.

Like your Onkyo, my Marantz can set 1 or 2 rears, which I suppose I could also mess with. I feel like way back in the day when I had a single rear surround, there was more of a coming-from-the-front effect to the sound from that channel.

The M5 as you know has very broad dispersion. One located behind the MLP may do the trick. You could use the other for height if the Marantz supports a single height channel.

I've been thinking of that LFR180. I think it might be the missing link to getting that BIG theater dialogue. My 160 is very clear but it doesn't project a sense of space because it can't! No centre can because it's not installed by side walls to take advantage of lateral reflections. But there's a wall right behind every centre and that's what the LFR180 takes advantage of. I bet it sounds SPACIOUS.

I'm starting to despise Axiom even more now because since getting the v4, I now hear just how important the relationship is between the listening window and sound power curves. It's that relationship that results in a sense of space/holography. The LFR raises that sound power curve right from the lowest frequency due to the extra drivers. The DSP then steers front/rear power to effectively control the ratio of direct vs. reflected power within a tight band. This results in even more "air" and "space". It also adjusts the delay between front and rear most likely.

Charles, the LFR180 may actually give you a bigger improvement!

My rear surround makes absolutely no difference in music and movies. Get the LFR180.

I already have my order in, and they're working on it. I'll make it happen another time.

Holographic is a good term for the imaging heard.
It's certainly more than just stereo sound.
I have to wonder how the M5 would compare but I can't swallow the loss on my trades.
Guess I'll have to keep suffering, bwahahaha.

Had I known the v4 sounds this way, I'd have upgraded 4 years ago.

They're quick. I got a shipment notification today, and they still haven't responded to my email. For those who've done the trade-up, I assume I can purchase shipping boxes and prepaid shipping labels from them for the ones I'm sending in? I'm sure I can make something work, but I'd feel better about them going in the containers that are designed for them.

Also, I didn't think they'd be so fast since I ordered from the Factory Outlet, and with the promotion going on. Nice work, Axiom!