Has anyone heard of SVS subs? (http://www.svsubwoofers.com). I can get one from them that has dual drivers and puts out much more power than the AXIOM EP350. Suggestions? Comments?

Try using the Search feature.

And, consider the Hsu subwoofers, too.

In a word, yes. Many of us here own SVS and are very happy with them. The Hsu owners, however, are much more vocal about their subs. I think the Hsu subs pump out some sort of mind-controlling gas that converts everyone who listens to them into unpaid salespeople.

You can get one ?? As in some special price ?
And it's hard to make any suggestions without knowing room size, married or not (WAF), apartment dweller or big house, basement, outboard gear, and what kind of car you drive..

In reply to:

---

The Hsu owners, however, are much more vocal about their subs. I think the Hsu subs pump out some sort of mind-controlling gas that converts everyone who listens to them into unpaid salespeople.

---

It's not that. They're just better.

(just stirring the pot a little.)

you know i can't compete with your buff pot-stirring forearms...

My SVS 16-46PCi whomps my buddies Hsu cylinder sub! Sorry, I don't know what model his is, but it is a cylinder sub, about 6 or 7 years old. Granted, technology of subs has improved over that period of time, but my SVS sounds fantastic and was WAAAAYY cheaper than a comparable Hsu last year when I bought it.

Peter, you funny!!

only between failed attempts, yes.

Do you recommend the cylinder type of sub over the cube type? I know they run cheaper and I am eyeing the 16-46pci sub. The room size is around 20 x 20. But it is a large house and the room flows into the kitchen and dining room, entryway, etc (all open area). Is one enough? Is it enough power for using only one?

My 16-46PCi is plenty for me. My room was 14X14 with an open WALL (not doorway) into a 12X22 room leading into another 12X14 room.

No real reason to go box or cylinder other than how it looks and footprint.

Well, that's a big room with an open-floor plan. Depending on your listening habit, the room deserves a flagship sub from Hsu or SVS...

Cylinders: Hsu TN-1220HO or SVS CS-Plus series
Boxes: Hsu VTF-3 or SVS PB2-Plus

Box vs. cylinder is, to a large extent, a matter of ergonimic and aesthetic preferences. Either way, I warn you that these subs are very large (except for the VTF-3, the most compact of these, although it is still physically substantial).

Or go with a Stryke sub that outperforms the Hsu and SVS for a similar price and custom finish. There was another short thread on this.

Frank

In reply to:

---

Or go with a Stryke sub that outperforms the Hsu and SVS for a similar price and custom finish.

---

Just like all the the Hsu/SVS threads.....we need to qualify what is meant when we say one sub "outperforms" another.

In my home, EQ'd flat to within +-1db from 18-100hz, my SVS 16-46PCi will run with any sub you want to bring. Others may play louder, but I don't care. I have never reached the limits of my sub, so it is all irrelevant. Would I go bigger? Not now. This thing rocks! If the Plus series would have been available when I bought the PCi, I probably would have jumped, just to have the extra headroom available. After living with this sub for well over a year, I know I don't need more, and I challenge anyone to show me that in MY ROOM, theirs will outperform mine.

That is not to say that the Stryke, the Hsu, the bigger SVS, or any of the really high priced subs are not as good. It is also not to say that mine would beat them in a 10,000 cu. ft. room in extension and maximum output. What that means is that in a room the size of mine, mine does its job well, and would not be massively outperformed by anything else. (at least not the way I calibrate--flat, no house curve)

will,

What would you consider to be "outperform"?

-curtis

I bet if I parked a big diesel moving truck just outside your room and revved it, I could get more SPLs in there than your sub.

I just used the word from a post up above. A sub that would outperform would play deeper, louder, and with less distorstion. The thing is, while I know my sub is not the "best" sub ever made, in my room, which is not all that big, this PCi goes very deep without ever reaching its limits. Distortion stays low (I know I am at well under 1/2 output, even at high listening levels) and the sub plays very clean. It was a huge step up from my 12" Advent sub. I do believe in headroom, but in my case, I really don't need any more.

Since this is the case, I do not believe that too many subs will outperform mine, especially for the $599 (if I remember correctly) that I paid back then. I could have built a DIY sub, or researched and built an infinite baffle sub in my basement, but only if I consider my time to be worthless. If I value my time at $25/hr, then the PCi gets nearly impossible to beat for the money.

If I buy a 500w plate amp for say $250 (cheap!), a driver for $200, and spent $50 for enclosure material, I would have to build it in about 4 hrs to keep it under what I paid for the SVS. It would probably take ME 30 or 40 hours to build it, making it way too expensive for me.

In reply to:

---

If I buy a 500w plate amp for say $250 (cheap!), a driver for $200, and spent $50 for enclosure material, I would have to build it in about 4 hrs to keep it under what I paid for the SVS. It would probably take ME 30 or 40 hours to build it, making it way too expensive for me.

---

Sounds like my DIY rig, except my amp was a slightly cheaper and slightly lower powered, but with a considerably more expensive driver, and the enclosure was about $150 to have done for me based on specs given. [I cannot make a good box - lol - I've failed too many times to get the extension right. Tuned ports are HARD to do.]

Hey Curtis..
Ok, gonna jump in here a bit.. I was over at Hsu last week, and listened to both the box type and tube type subs.. Now, this may only occur at higher levels, but the tube style seems to play smoother.. Dr Hsu says this is due to the longer port..
Sounded good to me ? Both the reasoning and the actual sound.. :>

Pretty sound reasoning.. Hard to beat a mass produced product, if it's done right.. And it seems these top sub companies are doing just that..

What I'm getting at is that there is more to a sub than loud, low, and distortion.

Just like speakers with similar numbers and freq curves. Get them into a room and they sound different.

After hearing my VTF-3 and a 20-39PC+ together in the same room. Both great subs, but they sound different.

Hey Mikey,

I know Hsu's TN1220HO tube sounds different than the VTF-3....definitely tighter and cleaner.

Also remember, the TN1220 tube design is different than SVS tube design.

Did you buy one?

curtis, sounds like you're discussing women; are you on the correct board??

I just read my last post...I meant distortion, not than unruly word my fingers actually typed! By the way, my SVS sounded much different when I bought it than it does now. It took several hours with a BFD to EQ it flat. And I mean FLAT. Not close with 1/6 or 1/12 octave measurements. I used a tone generator and burned a disc with all frequencies between 10hz and 125 hz in 1hz increments. Each was recorded for 10 seconds, which gives me enough time to record the results. I use a RS meter and use the correction values to get a reasonably close response curve. Then I adjust the BFD. I used all 12 of the bands, and starting with the lowest point of the response curve, lowered each peak until I figured I was ruler flat on paper. After rechecking with the meter, I am quite sure that I am within a db of flat from 18hz to 100hz. It took a long time, and was a fair amount of screwing around (116 different frequencies, and a whole lot of correction values for the Rat Shack meter), but it sounds fantastic. I agree that each sub will sound different depending on its output response curve. I like accuracy, so I play. I am quite sure that I even GAINED some headroom, because even though my deepest lows ended up with a boost (by cutting everything else and raising the overall gain) the balance is much better, and truthfully, really deep bass is not a full time deal. Most bass that occurs regularly is found above 40hz, which is where my biggest peaks were.

Nah, not yet.. I still don't like that speaker hanging out on the end deal.. Scary..
I'm on my over there right now, for lunch agian.. Going to ask for a look see at the inside of the TN line.. Don't know if that will happen, but never hurts to ask...
Will also ask about the new STF ? I saw a post here early today, somone mentioned it.. STF 1 and 2 ?
I do like the slimmer lines on the Hsu as opposed to the SVS, but have not seen an SVS in the flesh as yet.. Might not be that much of a diff ??

hey will, i was the one comparing women....hijacking the thread in other words. i wouldn't get so technical about subs, unless it was steak, cheese, and mushrooms.

In reply to:

---

Might not be that much of a diff ??

---

They are very different. If Zen ever pops in again, maybe you could head down to SD to hear/see his.

I ordered the Stryke Mini-Thunder. Good price, spec wise it will outperform and play louder than the SVS or HSU, and they have a variety of finishes to choose from at NO EXTRA CHARGE. Special now is 549.00

dan, I don't know what you mean about me hijacking the thread. In response to not much difference in looks between the Hsu and the SVS...the SVS is much more stout. I thought there was a big difference. As far as performance, my SVS was much better than my buddies old Hsu cylinder, but it should be. It has a much beefier driver and a lot more power than his several year old model. His is close to its limits in a room smaller than mine, and you can hear it. I would bet that if I took a newer Hsu, however, and EQ'd it like I did with my SVS, there would be no discernable difference in my room between the two, unless I drove them much harder than whatI ever actually listen at.

In reply to:

---

I would bet that if I took a newer Hsu, however, and EQ'd it like I did with my SVS, there would be no discernable difference in my room between the two, unless I drove them much harder than whatI ever actually listen at.

---

Just like if you EQ'd speakers, I think you will hear a difference when playing music and/or movies.

I agree. We all seek to have very "musical" subs. I bet if you played some mid to low-bass test tones on different brand subs in the same room, they'd sound different.

I agree. We all seek to have very "musical" subs. I bet if you played some mid to low-bass test tones on different brand subs in the same room, each tone would sound different.

Thanks for agreeing with me twice!

That's what I call a double buko .

Indeed.

I guess I clicked twice. too late to remove one of them.

How does anyone feel about DUAL subs instead of one? If anyone had a choice of going with two 320 watters instead of a 525 watter would they do it?

Choice:

1. 2x12" 600w SVS box sub (PB2-ISD)
http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb2_isd.htm

2. PAIR OF 1x12" 320w SVS Cylinder
http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pci_16-46.htm

3. 1x12 525w SVS Cylinder
http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pcplus_16-46.htm

I can upload my floorplan, but basically subs will be in a 18x18 living room (i know i said 20 x 20 ...it's all approx) room that flows into a large kitchen, entryway, etc (all open).

I belive the pair would be better. Though getting one first would probably be smarter. Then if you felt you wanted more ooompf you could buy a second one.

i suggest emailing SVS about what you should do. Like axiom they have great customer service and are honest. they told me go with one 25-31 for my 12x15 room. On their website they also suggest getting only one for smaller rooms