Anyone out there experienced with M50v4 vs M3v4?

I am so much enjoying my M3v4 in my living room. I have to say in my living room, which is more live than my main A/V space, the M3v4 is far more enjoyable than the M5. The M5 is far more accurate, and more linear but I find myself listening to it in a very clinical sort of way. I don't have that problem with the M5 in my man-cave and prefer the M5 over the M3.

Given my newly-discovered love for the M3, I am wondering if replacing the M3 with the M50 will give me an even better emotional response. The M3 is currently paired up with two low end subs which really aren't doing much.

What do you all think?

Mojo - The 50's will give a much more full bodied sound. The extra woofer and larger cabinet mean better power handling and more robust bass. Considering how much good stands cost, I have always thought of the 50's as an unsung hero in the Axiom line.

Thanks, Craig. I'll go for them!

Craig, these comments from your review of the M50s stand out:

"The M50's demonstrated a lot of balance with 2AN. They mix a fairly deep soundstage, average detail, tuneful/punch bass and more than respectable delineation with vocals. The M50's are not the most detailed speaker in the test, but one is also never left wondering how much was left out."

"The sound mix on this disc features Tony "front and center", and the M50's put him out front, right where he belongs. On "Fly Me To The Moon", Tony walks towards the back of the stage, and the M50's convey his movement with good depth... then he comes forward again, and one can "see him move" almost as well as with the more expensive speakers we auditioned."

This is exactly what I need for my relatively live living room. I never thought I'd say this but I don't want "detailed" in there. I want to relax with that amazing v4 holography.

I am only now starting to appreciate how different Axiom speakers satisfy various, nuanced use cases.

Mojo The Axiom line also does this different "nuanced" sound between models while keeping the sound accurate. As an example, we have used the 50.4's with the VP180 HP center with excellent results. An excellent, high output system with amazing bang for buck can be had with a pair of 50.4 for front, the VP180 center, M3 surrounds and a pair of EP350's.

You won't find it in the "pre-packaged" theater pages, but it will kick ass. I know, because we did it here with a single EP350.

You will find the 50's to be a great relaxer.

My problem is I like all the v4 I have each in their own unique way. I want them all!

Bought M50v4 in ebony!

You're insane! Axiom may as well set up shop down the street from you at this point. Or move you into their guest cottage at the factory.

I contracted Versionfouritis.

I need more rooms.

See.
Lol.

Blair, I'm a few weeks away from freeing up another room. It's 10x10x7'2". Do you think M100s, an EP800 and an ADA-1500 will be enough for that room?

To square Tex

You'll need one of those audiophile record\media stands to shorten one of the walls.

I bet it would still be awesome either way.

Well...we're in luck, Brendo. It's 10x12.

As much as I praise the M3s for their imaging and soundstage, they pale in shame when compared against the M5s. The mid-range and HP drivers make all the difference!

My friend noticed when I listen to the M3s I toe tap and move my head rhythmically. When I listen to the M5s on the other hand, I sit very still and move my eyes around from side-by-side.

Have your M50's showed up yet ? My guess is that you will really like them... but ebony finish takes time.

I still really enjoy my M40s although I get the impression that M50s are better balanced. So far nothing has gone deeper in my living room than the M40s.

I don't think the factory has started on them yet. I got ebony vinyl not real wood. I've always gone black oak but I was told the ebony is real nice so I thought I'd give it a whirl. I've really been enjoying the M3s in the living room.

Ebony vinyl - neat, I didn't know that was an option.

I still cringe a bit when I type "vinyl" but nearly all of my Axioms are vinyl and everyone who has ever seen / touched them thinks they are real wood.

I too didn't know until Slimpikins pointed it out. I think my v4 black oak looks better than TAM's rosewood. It looks better than v2 black oak. Everyone thinks it's real wood.

Where would you sit, lol.
M2's. I've always wanted to hear them.
I also had to take a second look when my M80HP's were unboxed. I was giddy. The vinyl looked/is amazing.

I want M2s as well! I've never heard them.

Ya, but my rosewoods are the fastest...

TAM

Like

TAM - Your Rosewoods are the best looking. Don't take any stuff from anyone suggesting otherwise.

Rosewood is indeed gorgeous no matter what kind it is. I am sure TAM's active M5s in rosewood will look amazing!

Being serious for a change - our 4 year old M100's in real oak still look brand new. Try that with a Chinese made speaker.

My 12 year-old M80v2 with black oak in fine Valencia Vinyl still look like the day I bought them.

A factoid: lightning hit the giant oak beside my childhood home and leveled all of it except the one bedroom my parents and I were sleeping in.

I just noticed the M50s are 4dB more sensitive than the M3s. The M3s are already plenty loud at my MLP in the living room but could be louder when I'm putting around the adjacent kitchen. The M50s will likely do the trick. According to the specs, the M50s can go to 800W peak which means about 122dB at 3 feet away given their 94dB sensitivity. That's quite the feat! More importantly for me, there is no bump around 100Hz which means they'll be more compatible with my room.

I keep thinking about those green towers I seen a few years back. They might have been Bryson's but they were the perfect color.

It really is a shame to keep what I have behind a screen.

The M40 grabbed my attention once too. Think it was after a friend bought similar sized towers with paper cones??

There's an M2 in refurb. Unfortunately, it's v3.

Edit: they were/are wooden cones. I'll need to get the model and brand again.

JVC?

Can't remember. I do remember the comment they cost as much as a small car.
I'll make a point of getting more info.

Focals with French flax woven woofers?

John! Lookie!!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-10FriZ_hET7Fmqbwbh3178VZa7I8_7g

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-BHwCZ6c62B2pXLQC4zJeJ-yaWma3Sj6

Hey... M50v4's !

I was about to say "even Axiom doesn't seem to have those" but all the web site pics have now been updated to v4. Also noticed that Eggshell White and Ebony are now stock finishes... good to see.

So how do they sound ?

The M50v4 has always been part of the line-up as far back as I can remember.

Prodigious bass! I can use them as my fan in the summer. Very high sensitivity! They can be driven very loud with relatively little power compared to the M5 and even the M3 (the M5 really does need a lot).

For some context, they are in my average-sized living room in 2.0. I am driving them with the Pioneer A9 which is rated at 55W/channel into 8 Ohms, 75W into 4 Ohms. The back and front ports are wide open. BTW, this is not the ancient A9 nor the modern one with the USB port. It's the good one (: The one with dual mono construction complete with twin toroids and 30,000uF per side.

I've been letting them play while doing yard-work. They are shaking my siding on the front of the house and can be heard into the neighbor's yard with the windows closed. Now of course you might ask how much I'm putting into them. The Pioneer is set to -17. At that level, Renee Olstead's Hit the Road Jack is hitting 15V peaks (maybe more but that's the best I can do with my humble meter). It's really hard to say how much power that represents but let's use 8 Ohms as the impedance magnitude. That's less than 30 peak Watts (not a challenge at all for the Pioneer) and I was surprised at how loud that was when I sat down to listen. It was way too frickin' loud so I grabbed the SPL meter to see if it was just my ears being extra sharp today. At 11 feet away, with the tune and level I described above, the M50s are hitting 106dBC!!!! I have to check my notes but if memory serves, the M5s hit well below 100dBC at that level.

Now there's SPL and there's CLEAN SPL. I haven't drawn any SPL vs. cleanliness comparisons yet between the M3, M5 and M50 but I can tell you I hear audible distortion at peaks of 100dBC at 11 feet away with the M50.

There's also the matter of what content might be missing. This one is not hard at all. The M5s are much better in this department just like when I compared them against the M3. Better bass, better mid-range and better highs. Having said that, the M5s are not as easy to listen to in my living room as the M3s and M50s. The main A/V room is a completely different matter. I think the big difference is the hardwood in my living room vs. carpet in the main A/V room.

Then there's the M100. 109dBC at 13 feet away and it's clean!

I'll also add the sound quality is similar to the M3 and that's a good thing. Of course not as high fidelity as the M5.

The ebony is lighter than I expected. It is not as black as the black oak. It's almost like a light black or dark grey. As my friend put it, the ebony is a more modern look but she surprisingly prefers the more textured look of the black oak. It's worth repeating this is a nicer black oak than v2. It is darker and has more relief.

Here's an update after listening to the M3s and M50s - both v4.

The short of it is if you want a relaxed sound and have room for the M50, go M50 instead of M3. There just is no comparison.

I had three buddies over this afternoon, one lady and two guys. All of them, without hesitation, said things like the M3 sounds congested, not as defined, not as open, not as dynamic as the M50. I whole-heartedly agree. You don't have to listen very long to each to come to that conclusion.

They all liked the two different finishes and agreed it's really a matter of individual taste.

The M50s are a great Rock speaker. They go loud and clean with no sub needed. I was just listening to Metallica and Nazareth hitting 102 dB peaks at 11 feet away. It was very satisfying and I didn't feel like anything was missing.

Fair warning though that if you plan on listening to stuff like Bass Mekanik, you won't be able to go clean above 90dB peak at 11 feet away. Those 6.5" non-HP drivers do have their limits.

In my living room, the humble Pioneer is more than enough with these highly sensitive M50s. I may hook up the ADA-1000 to them to push them more. The 1000 is a good match for the specified peak power (400W) of the M50.

It's very interesting how I've had bass "problems" with the M3 and the M5 in my living room, having to attenuate both by 10dB at 100Hz, but I do not have that problem with the M50. My suspicion that this was caused by the bass hump found in the M3 and M5 appears to be correct.

I also found the highs to be too much in my living room with the M5s. The M3s fixed that and so do the M50s.

It's an easy-to-drive, easy-to-listen-to speaker that reaches high SPLs cleanly with no need for a sub. The M50s are another one of those Axiom secrets few know about.

Oh YEAHHHHHH!!!! That ADA-1000 has TOTALLY opened those puppies up! LOL!

A notebook 11 feet away is flapping from the front port wind. LOL!

It also appears the distortion I heard earlier was my Pioneer because I no longer hear it with the ADA-1000. I guess the Pioneer was just crying uncle.

I'm gonna nail these M50s and an ADA-1500 to my deck. My neighbors need to party hardy!

There ought to be some kind of Full Plastic Bracket to help with that.

I had the same experience when I inserted an Adcom ~250WPC amp between my HK 3270 receiver and M60ti's. It was like listening to completely different speakers at medium to high volumes.

I was surprised, although I should have known better than that.

Note to self... you have an ADA1500-4 that you won't be trading in as part of the upgrade to active LFR1100's... open the damn thing up and get it working.

I had to stop and think why the Pioneer shut down with the M5s before I could hear any distortion as opposed to the M50 where distortion is evident and it doesn't shut down. The protection in the Pioneer must be current-sensing. The M5 needs a lot of current compared to the M50. The protection kicks in as the current rises before distortion sets in. The M50 on the other hand needs less current as the volume is turned up. However, as the volume is turned up, the Pioneer gets into its non-linear operating zone causing distortion.

One of the things I like about the ADA is its protection philosophy. It will self-protect before you hear any distortion. When it self-protects, you know you need to change something in your set-up.

I would absolutely not hesitate to recommend the M50v4 to anyone for home theatre or 2.0. They are so easy to drive and listen to. The ADA-1000 drives them clean and loud!

If you want them to be really clean and loud down low, cross them over at 80Hz to a sub.

Of course you can get M5s but to drive them as loud as the M50s, you need an ADA-1500. If you're in a live room with hardwood like mine, the M50 will be more to your liking.

The standard ebony finish has really grown on me. It looks like bead-blasted aluminum.

So far there hasn't been a single v4 I haven't liked. Maybe I'll change my mind about the M22 when I listen to a v4.

As I sit here, sipping my glass of Monasterio de las Vinas Riserva, admiring the ebony finish on my M50s while listening to Blueberry Hill by The Dukes of Dixieland, I can't help but wonder what they would sound like with an HP driver and a mid-woofer in place of the twin woofers. They'd likely sound like the M5 with cleaner reach somewhere close to the M60. But they wouldn't be as sensitive as the M50 or M60 and likely the same price as the M60.

Big band music is great on these M50s too. I just played Sing Sing Sing by the BBC Big Band in 2.0 and suffered heart palpitations. The ADA-1000 drove them to 109dBC at 11 feet away. I could have opened the ADA up more but I got really scared...LOL!

I moved the M100s into the living room earlier today. I used the "two-sphinctered grip" technique to haul them up from the basement. That's the left finger in the rear sphincter and the right finger in the front sphincter. That's a first for me! It worked real well.

You can see the contrast in size between the M100s, M50s and M3s. I've said good things about the M50s, and they are all true, but hot damn...the M100s just blow the M50s out of the water in every possible way. I am really shocked how good the M100s sound in my very live living room. I don't think I can let them go back to the basement now.

I'm listening in 2.0 with my Pioneer connected through the ADA-1000. Bass is absolutely tight and transparent. Depth is huuuuge. Width is good but nothing like the basement where I have 21 feet of stage to work with. Mids, highs...it's all so good.

On bass-heavy songs, with exceptionally well-recorded macro-dynamics like Holy Cole's The Train Song and Renee Alstead's Hit the Road Jack, the 1000 gives in before I can get that extra "party-mode" SPL. If I had a DSP sub up here, crossed at 80Hz, I know that would not be a problem. The 1000 is also not a problem with the M50s or M3s because those distort before the amp can cut out.

So anyone here considering amps and speakers for visceral entertainment, the M100s are the way to go. For 2.0, consider the ADA-1500.


https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-LS_9USWfP4DZNJMrowe9zHamdtzSqVW

"Drum Solo" by Gojira thrashes the 1000 pretty hard. Not that it isn't loud with the M100s but just as I boost the gain to rattle my rib cage, it cuts out.

I need to move the 1500 up here and blow out my bow window...LOL!

Are you skilled with the Sai's and the Bo in the picture?

I am ultra-skilled with the staff, Chinese knife (Dao) and smaller knives. I can easily dispatch volumes of CHUDs (Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers). The Sais were a gift from my Limey friend 39 years ago. We still get together to bash them about but I wouldn't trust my life with them.

BTW, the wind (yes wind!) from the M50s knocked that staff down. You can see where it was mounted horizontally along the top. I was listening in the dark late at night and nearly had a heart attack when it came down. Lol!

This is sub-bass excursion, M100 style. LOL!

video --> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-NnWo61RUvVFabKlDj0z_gd7jyYuQFpt

Mojo - You just voided your warranty.

Ahahahaha! Did you see how they are belly dancing? LOL!

I don't know what I'm gonna do, guys and gals. I need a DSP sub in the living room, a receiver with bass management and either active M100s or active LFRs. In the basement I need active M100s or active LFRs. Even with Axiom's exceptional prices on gear/Ian's generosity, I'm gonna go flat-effin' broke!

This is not a want. This is a NEED! I can't go back to M5s, M3s and M50s no matter how fine they are.

I need you guys to trade in your actives so I can get them from re-furb. LOL!

hmmm this is serious ...
Might have to start an AA (axiom anonymous) chapter ...

Do ADAs go down to DC?

I'll have to test that.

I know the EP800v4 sub goes down to 1 Hz!

I advise anyone who wants to keep their sanity to stay away from ADAs and v4 speakers. Just get a system from BestBuy and forget about micro and macro dynamics, a holographic soundstage and deep, tight, room-filling transparent bass. You'll never know what you're missing and if you hear it...too late. There is no way to un-hear it and you're hooked!

hmmm ...

1) Fine Food: don't let your wife introduce the kids to sushi or other fine dinning
2) Fine wine: don't develop that palette!! You'll regret it ... stick with the Yellow Tail
3) Live Theater Performances, stay away from the professional "Broadway" stuff, stick
with the local high school/community theater ...
(corollary ... do not marry a theater buff)
4) Hawaii Vacation, just go to the beach ...
5) Any other vacation, just go to the beach ...
And lastly at number 6
6) Don't develop an ear ... you'll end up like Mojo
no matter how good your setup is ... there is something else out there ya gotta have ...

Yup! Check this gift I just got today from my friend. I have now regressed

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-S7KcZuc6h7dVStqD5BWwvpoXSdDGiBw

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-VjzGbbfdsQT41lW8LSy3CXmRx4uKGDM

Don't you love it when they quote the frequency response and drop the how far down part ...

I haven't heard them yet. I don't have the 85 gauge wire needed to connect them. The terminals accept smaller gauge than pubic hairs. Lol

I am convinced they don't go down to 40Hz (even at - 10dB) and I doubt whoever designed them knows what a Hz is. Did you read the statement how the amp output impedance must be 8 Ohms? I suppose they could be referring to a tube amp but if so, there are better ways of writing that sentence.

It's a 10 inch woofer with an eighth inch diameter voice coil. Lol

Guys! Fukitol! I'm mortgaging everything. I want it all!

Watched this several times...
Have you considered sharing this on the facebook group?

Oh yeah? I can make more of those for you. I've seen those drivers do the jig, the hokey pokey, two-step and macarena.

That was with the 1000 and not close to its limit. With the 1500 cranked, those drivers do something like this:

https://youtu.be/3kmVGDuDGcY?t=49

Facebook is spyware.

That is nuts! Are those HP woofers? What kind of SPL were you experiencing during that clip?

Hey bman, how's it going? Are you still liking your system?

Yes, HP woofers on the M100v4.

It was hitting 112 dBC peaks at 11 feet away. When I tried to get it higher, the ADA-1000 self-protected. I haven't tried the ADA-1500 yet.

I think though I'm reaching the compression limit of the M100v4. What may be saving the M100 and allowing it to reach that level is the fact that the bass isn't "constant" if you know what I mean.

I don't want to give anyone the impression that they can listen to a tune like this with the M100v4 and get all the music. No, no! You need a sub that gets down to 10Hz for that. But there is a lot of bass coming through and what comes through is quite clean and loud.

Surprisingly, it is not difficult to listen at that SPL for this tune. I find it gets harder to listen to high SPLs when there's a lot of high mids/low highs. I suppose that makes sense if you look at the Fletcher-Munson curves.

Yep, although not getting as much viewing/listening time in now that my pool is open. 112 is massive. Your theory makes sense. There's enough time in between peaks for those caps to juice back up. With the ADA's, is it safe to say that if you're not tripping self-protection, then you're not missing anything, and the amp is sufficiently powerful?

You're not missing anything with the ADAs when they're not tripping. I can attest to the specified peak power levels on the 1000 and 1500.

Now check out the M5s without and with a sub. You can hear HP driver artifacts without the sub for sub-bass at 107dB SPL from 13 feet away. This is a very extreme condition. It's amazing the drivers are staying in tact...LOL! You don't hear those artifacts with the M100v4. Incidentally these are dual M5s in parallel which is a 3 Ohm load in the low end and a 2 Ohm load in the mids.

These ADAs and speakers are the real deal!

no sub
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-WQbTRG5ltCmfI81AQdOBu9pCOqFzyuN/view?usp=drivesdk

With sub
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-Z0f_2UGzdEPuUpnIo8U4XUIUBD-xXHv/view?usp=drivesdk

What are you playing ... and what planet is it from?

It's from the planet Gottalotobottom.

Ah ONLii lIsTenn 2 Dat $TUfFFF wEN ah'm RoLlin Witt Da HOMiess Orrr BUstin uhp Ian'$ GeAr Yo.

Bass Mekanik: Lo & Slo Remix
https://open.spotify.com/track/5wOAwjE3AWCsFPOGUD2uH6

Last time I saw woofers do a dance like that (your dance was definitely better) was when some audiophile was showing off his stuff (like 30+ years ago). He seemed very proud of the fact that his woofers were keeping time with the warp of the record ... I was like "that's very cool" while having "that's very stupid" bubble thoughts ...

Sweet those drivers going so quick.
If you like lots of low end you should check out DJ Magic Mike. Back in the 90s when we would get his tapes they came with a warning. Extremely low base will damage speakers.

Exactly!

I'm listening to DJ Magic Mike on the M50s. Good bass demo tunes.

It works really good for sub placement as well. Lots of boom. Every ones favorite track from him was called, Make The Car Go Boom.

I twerked to make the car go boom today in the presence of church ladies who were none too pleased with my evil shenanigans.

As I said in a previous post, I replaced the M50s with the M100s in my living room. I said sonically, the M100s blew the M50s out of the water. While this is true, I just can't seem to relax while listening to M5s or M100s in this room. Even when I'm cooking up a storm in the adjacent kitchen, the M50s are more enjoyable. I chalk it all up to the lively nature of my main floor.

A review of the M50 will make it over to Axiom for potential posting on the product page. BTW, it's great to see Axiom doesn't edit any of my reviews. Both good and not so good things made it in. They've botched up my "oh so careful" formatting though which makes some of my reviews difficult to read.

In order to get the "tightest" bass possible out of my M50s in the living room, I had to move the front baffles 7'2" from the front wall. So they're a third into my living room now.

They're running in 2.0 off an ADA-1000 which is plenty for the M50 without any EQ. The source is a Chromecast Audio connected to the 1000. The M50 starts to distort before the 1000 gives out. My ears give out before that.

This depth into the room isn't a criticism of the M50. It's physics. If you don't want to deal with physics, buy the Bose 601 which has a low end of 250Hz. You can place those a foot away from the wall and call it good.

BTW, this 7 foot distance gives an incredibly deep soundstage. Butting them up against the wall won't achieve that.

I gave up the soundstage depth for more width and a more satisfying room arrangement. I may still try to move the M50s further out from the wall for more depth. Right now the center image on many songs is coming from outside my bow window. I'd like to see if I can do that with the entire soundstage. I'm gonna live with this for a while because it's pretty darned satisfying.

I am seriously impressed with these M50s. I've just made them completely disappear in my living room with a 3 second tweak! More on that when I feel like getting out of my chair to snap a photo.

You moved them outside ?

Lol, I nearly choked on my coffee. Actually I moved my MLP 4 feet off the back wall and it was like the already clear images got a heck of a lot sharper. And the extreme left and right of my soundstage expanded beyond the speakers. A good thing got a heck of a lot better but the chair position sure looks funny.

I found the same thing with M60's... the further I pulled them away from the wall the better they sounded. That was one of the reasons I traded for M5HPs.

I'm trying to reconcile that statement with the fact that I have a truck full of LFR1100 actives sitting outside.

It apparently won't matter where you place the active LFRs...within reason. Let's see how well that BGC switch works on the DSP.

John, you're getting to work on those this weekend, right? You've been away from audio too long.

Yep... when the sun is up it's Man vs Weeds, but when it gets dark it's Man vs Speakers...