I've been quite impressed with my M2OW. I've been thinking about how much better exactly are the active LFR1100s over the M2OW.
I've figured they are 2 times better. Here's how.
An M2OW, ADA1250-2, EP175 system costs $3845 Can. It can reach as low as the active LFRs but can "only" hit a max of 116 dB SPL at 3 feet away.
An active LFR1100, 2xADA1250-5 system costs $17,715. It can hit a max of 129 dB SPL at 3 feet away.
129 dB is 13 dB more than 116 dB. Every 10 dB of sound pressure is perceived as twice as loud. Close enough.
So there you have it. The active LFR1100s are two times better than the M2OW but cost almost five times as much. Loudness costs!
The CDC reports "Noise above 70 dB over a prolonged period of time may start to damage your hearing. Loud noise above 120 dB can cause immediate harm to your ears."
The CDC also reports, "The maximum volume level for personal listening devices; a very loud radio, stereo, or television; and loud entertainment venues (such as nightclubs, bars, and rock concerts) is 105–110 decibels the consequence of which is "Hearing loss possible in less than 5 minutes."
Your ears are your most precious audio equipment.
Agreed. Note the sound pressure numbers in my post are at 3 feet.
In practice, I've found the M2 to give great dynamics for music and movies up to 12 feet away in room.
As for the active LFR1100, I have not found any practical limit.
If you arecrossing to subs they are responsible for a lot of that spl remember.
I haven't found that to be the case with the actives.
For example, the track below is hitting peaks of 101 dBC at my MLP with my dual 500s off. I have my actives set to full band.
With dual 500 support from 80Hz and below, it's hitting 104.5 dBC.
My MLP is 14 feet away from actives and subs. For reference, my Onk is at -5.
https://open.spotify.com/track/7FE3yVQkgwifYMAxUko7rO?si=LCDkFBQDT4-BblO7udL4qAEdit: I just noticed you said if I'm crossing to subs which I'm not.
P.S. As a reminder, I don't have lab instruments here for my measurements.
Holy A-BOMB Batman!! That’s super cool!! What neat track. There’s some insanely complex tracks out there.
Kodiak, I don't know about your M60ti but with tracks like the A-BOMB I get 180 degree immersion. That includes the M2 in my living room. I have absolutely no problem throwing a dance party in my living room with the M2s and my crappy subs which will soon enough be replaced with 125s. As for my actives/twin 500s/800, if I turn it up too loud, I get nauseous. My vestibular system can't handle it. That system is a WMD!!!
If you like A-BOMB, here's the entire playlist for mid-bass songs. Be careful with your Yammy. Turning it up too loud can blow the tweeters due to distortion. If you had a good external amp though, you could really crank it!
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1cCSpWPX6AQ1vISNYCUk8o?si=2u-NBWUkRlyZUqQOhMd5Zg
Hey Mojo, check this out. Not as complex as “a bomb “ but as it builds it ll sound like your house is lifting off the foundation. The second “ drop “ is better adds a little extra zip to it , like air escaping from dubstep balloon. Crank it up , I want to hear it from here in B.C. I think you’ll smile if you juice it up and go for it blind.
https://open.spotify.com/track/42NB7w0tDCag0mQpCtZe7Y?si=3Wx6wb0CQHm0ozJuVnJdnwDo it! Crank it!
Ok, I'll try it but if your house sounds like it's lifting off the foundation, I need to upgrade my actives to M60ti and get an old Yammy. LOL!
Edit; The track you linked is Irene, Home. I don't hear anything shattering on my living room system. Is that the right track?
BTW, your receiver is reaaaaaallly old! It doesn't even have a sub out.
Yeah that’s the right track.
Group: Medasin
Album: Irene
Track: Home
I just like dubstep reverberated noise with be big air rushing preceding it. It surprised me when I first heard it. Super fun.
And yes...... the yammie is SUPER OLD. I know. I think I could buy pretty much anything and it would be an improvement.
Any thoughts on an Axiom ZA 1000 2 channel with transformer embedded ? Fits the bill I think. So if I’m understanding correct it’s essentially an ada 1000 so I’d have 125 watts per channel rms which means 125 divided by 2 channels or is 125 rms x2 all the time. So , 250? Seems like it would be tons of juice for the m60ti and for a future upgrade to m100.
Grooving back on Bruce Hornsby now. Very nostalgic. Love it.
Ok, I'll give that track a shot on my active system.
I'd shy away from getting the Transformer built into the amp. The only reason is, if you get it separate, you can move it around to another system. But if you don't have that need, an integrated Transformer can de-clutter your environment. You'll want to talk to Axiom about that because I don't know if you'd be giving up any access to buttons and connectors.
The ADA-1000-2 will give you 125 clean continuous Watts and 375 peak Watts per side. That sounds like a lot but as the following two examples show, it may not be enough if you are sitting 20 feet back.
At 20 feet back, when 1 Watt is fed into the M60s, they'll put out 70dB in sound pressure level. 70dB is a "quiet flute in the background" territory. To get to 24dB above that quiet level, you would need 256 peak Watts per side.
When listening to say Fleetwood Mac, the nominal sound pressure level may be about 80dB for moderate listening. That level requires about 10 Watts at 20 feet. When Mick smacks the drums, that's a 12dB rise in sound pressure demand - maybe more depending on how well-mastered that production is. To get from 80dB and 10W to 92dB, you need 150 additional peak Watts for a total of 160W peak per channel.
The ADA-1000-2 will be OK for the above two examples. But you may not be satisfied with 92 to 94dB. If you move up to the M100, you can squeeze out another 6dB from the 1000-2 via a combination of improved sensitivity and higher power due to their 4 Ohm load. But 100dB may still not rock your boat. Adding subwoofers though, may get you there.
Of course this all depends on how live your room is. You could always move closer than the 20 feet in the example.
I'd go with the 1000-2 and subs. If you need to, you could always trade up.
Awesome. Thanks for the insight. I understand the math on it. I guess I’m having a hard time imagining the end result with very little repertoire of listening to different systems and having not experimented with different amps and power systems.
I think I’m just skirting the inevitable realization that to get what I want in terms of SPL and quality I’ve gotta put my $$$ whereas my mouth is. There’s no way around it.
I’ll keep dragging my feet and searching for the “ solution “. I don’t like the za1000 for not having tone controls. I enjoy having the ability to tweak. So a separate pre might be better in that regard too. Hmmmmmm.
Thanks again for listening to my broken record upgraditis. Appreciated.
I just listened to that track on the actives. It showed me just how bad the subbage in my living room is. 20 year-old 100W sub that I modified and a used 150W down-firing Yammy.
I had my Onk pre-amp set to -25 and it nearly brought down the whole house. I have about 35 dB of headroom in my active system.
I think you must have some really good bass support in your room. You still can't hear what I hear though...or feel.
just sayin' you know...not poking fun or anything. It's good you're starting off with a somewhat humble system so you can see how much better things can get.
For all we know, the new Air software Axiom is working on may introduce tone controls. Then you'd have them in the Transformer. Likely via an app rather than physical controls.
BTW, you can connect a Transformer to your old Yammy.
I think my room does support the bass fairly well. Like I said it’s close to being enough but just not quite tickling the right spot. Which is why I think a pair of ep125 or 175 would fit the bill.
I’ve considered the transformer for sure as a stand alone product for sure. I was hoping to win the contest of naming the air rebreather!! But alas....... I did not.
I think it’s time to pull the trigger on a transformer. It’s a good next step. I’ll have a reasonably good DAC then and a nice central place to run my hobby from. My music is all over the place. It’s frustrating.
I’ve always liked what you said a ways back about starting off with something humble and working up into more of a system.
Almost brought the house down eh? That’s more like it!!! It’s a cool track! 35 dB of head room?! Ummmmm that sounds dreamy. !
Which Onkyo Pre Amp unit is it?
It's an Onkyo receiver but now with the actives, I use the pre-amp only. It's the tx-nr818. One of my buddies and I got a deal on two of them in 2012 from the great folks at Visions. Brought my v2 system to a whole different level. It works nicely on the v4 too.
Sorry about stealing the Transformer from you in the naming contest.
I don't have it yet but when I get it, I'll let you know about it. You may get yours before me.
You! That was supposed to be my transformer!! Ha ha. Too funny!!! Well that’s another good piece for your axiom archive.