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Posted By: Cork Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/30/20 09:47 AM
I'm gearing up to buy what will likely be my last set of speakers, this time for the living room. I probably don't need the M80's, but dammit, I've always wanted a pair. On the other hand, I really don't want to spend a lot on amplification, or have a receiver/amp combo in the living room. (Wife has ok'd the speakers, but would not be thrilled about amp complexity.)
So, to the main point, has anyone used a R-N803; or if not, do you guys think it'd drive the M80's adequately?
Oh, I will not be using a sub. This'll be a music-only and set-up and I don't think I need to go that low.
Posted By: Mojo Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/30/20 03:29 PM
What is the size of your room, how far away will you be listening from and what music do you listen to?
Posted By: aaaaaaaaaaaaa Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/30/20 05:33 PM
If you are building a forever setup buy forever components.

No, that amp is not one I would tell someone to buyfor a forever setup. Look into something with real power, looks, feel and quality. Forget mass market stuff. My opinion anyway. smile

A bryston integrated would come to mind or similar. Hegel etc...

The used market is your friend.
Posted By: 2x6spds Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/30/20 05:33 PM
Hi Cork
Your Yammie should do just fine. 2 channel stereo receiver, 100 wpc, nice piece. Good luck to you!
Posted By: Kodiak Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/30/20 06:04 PM
2x6 and Trevor are both right. I guess it comes down to budget. As a “ forever “ setup I’d throw in there , does the Yamaha have all the features and connections you want? Is it “ future proof “ enough for you? Check the specs for 4 ohm power rating, I’m sure it is spec’ed to 4 ohms but have a look.

On a basic level, yes I’d say your Yamaha is fine. It will drive the M80’s. Have you considered the HP version if not getting subwoofers?

FYI I’m using an old Yamaha receiver (85 watts x 2 ) with original m60ti in a 750sq foot room with 8 foot ceilings. It goes loud and is clear and enjoyable. But after a year with this system I can see the need for better quality amplification. Not to go louder but to have better quality and clarity and detail and imaging.

Room size and preferred listening level and genre ( genre to some degree but is less important) really matter. Your Yamaha might be enough for your needs and wants.

Edit: Looks like a nice receiver. And fairly future proof too.
Posted By: Cork Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/30/20 07:07 PM
Thanks to all for the replies and info.
The living room is 2500 cf and is open to the dining room, kitchen, and a foyer which adds another 2500 cf.
I will be sitting reasonably far from the speakers, about 14 ft (and they'll be separated by 8 ft).
I listen to classic rock, blues, jazz, and classical.

The looks of the Yamaha are fine for me as I came of "audio age" in the 70s and it has that kind of throw-back look. I confess I've also been eying up an Anthem MRX 520, but I don't need 5 channels and they're discontinued. And I'm not crazy about their new model.
The only features I need are a network connection (I play from a NAS) and the ability to play flac files (and enough power to do the M80's justice); so a pretty low bar there, I think.

The Bryston site just ticks me off, like they want to show me just little glimpses of their product - I'm a show me the specs and the front and back kind of guy. The Hegel looks interesting, but at 3K is a bit pricey. Worse, it doesn't seem to be rated for 4 ohms. FWIW, I won't buy used electronics. Used speakers are okay; but not in this case.

Oh, and I'm almost sure I'm going with HPs, just because. (I don't really think I need much low end for music, but I like the idea of the curve being smoother.)
Posted By: Mojo Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/30/20 08:01 PM
I have the same problem as you with the Bryston site, and in general, all their electronics. They shouldn't listen to me though. I'll never buy because it's just too expensive.

Based on the published M80 sensitivity, at 14 feet away and 1 Watt input, the M80s will push out somewhere around 83dB of sound pressure. That Yammie is good somewhere between 120W to 160W. That gives you about 21dB of headroom allowing the M80s to get pushed to peaks of 104dB. Of course how your room is damped and how loud you like to listen matters but 21dB gives you good headroom. I consider 83dB to be a moderate nominal listening level so even if you listen 6dB higher you'll still have 15dB of headroom.

I am not at all sure the analysis above holds for M80s with HP drivers. You really need to consult with Axiom about that.
Posted By: aaaaaaaaaaaaa Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/30/20 08:19 PM
Which Hegel are you looking at? They support to 2ohms stable.

I hear you on the old gear. smile I still have my Dad's setup from when I was a kid. Works great but needs a little TLC. Have original receipts from 1979. He paid over 700$ back then for his amp. Lotta Cheddar. He even built his own speakers. I didn't stand a chance. LOL.
Posted By: aaaaaaaaaaaaa Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/30/20 08:52 PM
Yes, the Yamaha is adequate.

https://ca.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/r-n803/specs.html#product-tab

100 W + 100 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.019% THD)

But......

You should be looking for 150W min. into 8 ohms and an amp that hits near 300W at 4Ohms if so. The Yammie does not and is not great even at 4ohms.... 160W at 1khz (I'm guessing burst.) It is an AVR....

BTW, in Canada Solen.ca is a good site to check out the Bryston line.

https://solen.ca/?s=bryston&post_type=product

A used Classe Amp would be really nice.

A Cambridge Azur 851A would be nice too. https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/can/en/products/hi-fi/851/851a

Cambridge is kind of the everyday mans high end. Great value IMO.

The most dynamic 2.0 system I ever heard was a pair of mono Devialet class D 800W amps into Focal Sopras. Just nutty. and Nutty expensive.
Posted By: SirQuack Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/30/20 09:03 PM
Yep it does not say all channels driven either...
Posted By: 2x6spds Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/30/20 09:36 PM
Some vintage gear is really good. I have a pair of Yamaha M80s rated at 250 wpc continuous, into 8 ohms, stable to 2 ohms. Sounds great. I'd like to get an old Sansui AU701a. Recently heard one driving a pair of Marten floor standers and it sounded really excellent!
Posted By: Cork Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/30/20 10:40 PM
I was looking at the Hegel H190, and I think I misread it (sorry) I saw the "into 8 ohm" and skimmed right along:
- Power output: 2 x 150 W into 8 ohms
- Minimum load: 2 ohms
That is an interesting amp, I'll have to see how flush I'm feeling when the time comes in a few months. (Retiring 7/1 and treating myself, so I have to order what I need by March so it's all ready when I am.)

Yeah, that old stuff was rock solid - and your Dad must be proud!

Interesting calculations Mojo; once in a while I'll measure SPL and I'm usually listening at 80-90; so that works. (My room is very reflective; maybe too much.)

I've looked at Cambridge Audio before, but didn't find one with a network connection. So I'd have to add something like the CXN in and that brings it up to serious money again. It would be a nice combo though ...

I appreciate all this info, I hope I'm not coming off as nay-saying. I'm hearing loud and clear that the Yamaha will work, but will not be ideal' so I'll keep on looking at options.
Posted By: Mojo Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/30/20 10:53 PM
The Yammie has been tested and achieved 114W into 8 Ohms and 160W into 4 Ohms. So yes, it will work.

It has very good noise performance...but only in Pure Direct. If you want to use YPAO for "room correction", you cannot use Pure Direct and noise performance will be bottom of the barrel. My late 80s vintage Yammie was no different in this regard and at 1/3 volume, I could hear the difference between Direct and not.

So it will work but is perhaps not so performant if you want to use YPAO or bass and treble EQ.
Posted By: Kodiak Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/31/20 04:35 PM
This seems like a conundrum really. The RN803 is a really nice receiver, more or less future proof and well built.

Yet in a slightly larger room the power supply doesn’t allow for the dynamics we want ( and that the m80 hp in this case can deliver rather well I bet ) / power supply that in a room that is a bit bigger would need and use.

It seems like the division point is around 100 watts for the elegant one box solution and separates. And to get that next 3 db bump you need another 100 watts and then 200 for another 3 and so on.

So it seems you / we / anybody / decides on “ good enough “ or jump all in, or use a smaller space but don’t put too big a speaker in the smaller space.

The middle ground of bigger watts in an integrated with 110,120, or even 200 watts are few and far between and rather expensive but be just enough to give the headroom desired for space and preferred spl.

Is there an argument to be made for capacitance though? That 100 watts rms with 12,000 uF is less effective than the 90 watts rms with 30,000 uF behind it. So the question is how much is enough? I think the higher the capacitance the better ..... or do you lose something with too high of capacitance?

See, conundrum.
Posted By: Mojo Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/31/20 06:53 PM
I've found the M5/1000-2 combo is bordering on inadequate for my 4200 cu ft space at 14 feet away. The M100/1000-2 is plenty! This is with subs on. The living room at 1p feet away is a different story. The ADA-1000-2 is plenty loud with any speaker.

You really can't judge anything from the capacitance figure. You have to know the dynamic power the amp is spec'd for. Axiom specs that figure. Most others do not.
Posted By: Kodiak Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/31/20 08:37 PM
I've seen Yamaha spec some amplifiers with dynamic power ratings. Can't say i've checked them all for that spec but they are there are the few i've looked at over hte last year, including my old Yammie.

Not to drag this post off the rails, Mojo, but why is the ada-1000-2 with M5 barely adequate versus the m100 with ada-1000-2? Are you saying its more about the space that the m5 is trying to pressurize versus the amoiunt of drivers in an m100 to pressurize the size space? (More about the space than the wattage and power of the ADA-1000-2).

Looking at the ADA-1000-2 at 54,000 uF versus 60,000 uF , how might this matter in terms of performance with the lesser capacitiance. I don't think it would matter at all unless you were measuring specs, sound about right? Would the dynamic power out put change at all? 6000 uF difference is 10 % less, seems like a fair bit when I word it that way, convince me doesn't matter....
Posted By: Mojo Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/31/20 09:33 PM
Be careful with dynamic power specs. A good spec, which by the way I've never found, ought to read something like "300W into two, 8 Ohm loads for 100 msec with 25% duty cycle from 20Hz to 20KHz with no more than 1% THD+N". Just look at how complete that spec is.

The reason the 100 works and the M5 barely does with the ADA example I gave is the higher sensitivity of the M100. The M100 can hit at least 4 dB higher than the M5 with the same power level.

Now you could power the M5 with a 1250 or 1500 but you start to run into design limits of the M5. At that point, you are better off going with an M60 or greater.

Note too that my FWB powers her M5s in her very large living room with my 20 year old, 90W Denon. No sub. No problem. For most, the ADA-1000-2 would likely be more than enough.

You can't wave away the extra 10% difference in capacitance without being intimately familiar with the design's performance. Perhaps the AC ripple was too much and it was messing with the noise margin. Perhaps the design was meeting the peak spec but the duration wasn't long enough causing smearing of instruments. You just don't know.
Posted By: aaaaaaaaaaaaa Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/31/20 09:37 PM
The M5 is knecapped at 84ish db sensitivity vs M100 at 90 or so. So to hit same unclipped spl in room needs 4x the power once you hit loud peak levels.

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1821:nrc-measurements-axiom-audio-m5hp-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

Edit: you sniped the reply! Im Too late. Check your mailbox.
Posted By: Mojo Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/31/20 09:43 PM
I dont think it's 84ish. I think it's more like 87ish vs. 91sh. I'm not sure I trust the chamber Soundstage measurements for the M5. The ferrofluid in the tweeters may have been cold. When I bought them, I went by what the reviewer, Andrew and Craig told me and discarded the measurements.
Posted By: Kodiak Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/31/20 10:15 PM
Back to the original conversation, Cork. If this is a retirement gift for yourself, I say go for it man. I don't know your budget constraints but get yourself something to power those m80HP's to the level that they and you deserve! It could be argued as well that additional power even at lower volumes is a good thing, plus you'll have power on tap for those times you are feeling the need for loud or when the neighbours are away and you can crank it up!

Of course, realize that by talking with this crowd, we are all fanataics.

What are running for speakers right now?
Posted By: Mojo Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 12/31/20 10:47 PM
Cork is running M5s with M2 surrounds.

My buddy is running the M100s he stole from me with a bottom of the barrel 90W Denon that is only good to 70W both channels driven. Sounds real nice!
Posted By: Cork Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/01/21 04:37 AM
I'm negotiating with myself as we type Kodiak. I like both the Hegel and the Cambridge Audio that TrevorM mentioned. Unfortunately, the Hegel was $4k, not $3k and the Cambridge is a two-piece system that I'm trying to avoid for my wife's sake. I'm going to try and dig up more network integrated amps. (And I'd gladly take more suggestions!)

Mojo is correct, I have an M5/M2/VP100 home theater setup and another M5/Advent-mini setup for music. Also a repurposed M22 pair on the deck. (Which is much nicer than I ever expected. Though my neighbors might disagree ...) All the setups are driven by Yamaha's; so I know I like the Yamaha sound. This'll be the first setup in the living room; I'm excited about it because I think the living room will have enough space for good acoustics (the other rooms are more cramped).
Posted By: Kodiak Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/01/21 04:59 AM
Hey Cork,
Those are some sweet setups man! All slightly different for a specific purpose. I have to agree on the Yamaha sound matching up with Axioms. I like how my sounds too.
It must be really tempting to get another Yamaha for sure!

Check out the Musical Fidelity m6i. It’s 220 watts per channel at 8 ohms. It doesn’t list a spec for 4 ohms but the rest of their integrated amps have a 4 ohm spec. They are expensive but they spec out great and get great reviews. I beautiful piece for a legacy system and a high quality one box solution.

Edit: M5i comes in at 150 watts into 2 channels at 8 ohms. Again no 4 ohms spec, not sure why as these are high quality integrateds.
Posted By: Kodiak Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/01/21 05:15 AM
Cork, another interesting option is a Yamaha AS1200 or 2200 if you want balanced inputs. This a purely analog affair but you could add an Axiom Transformer to it for all your network and streaming needs. These look really nice.

They both do 150watts into 4 ohms. 625va toroidal transformer. The 1200 is cheaper for sure but not balanced.

Lots of good reviews on these units on line and you tube.

Complete the the Yamaha / Axiom collection. And you get VU meters too.
Posted By: Mojo Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/01/21 05:50 AM
Those Yammies are so over-priced. Cork, e-mail Ian and have him cook you up a 2-channel ADA-1000 with a built-in Axiom Air Transformer. Far better value and performance.
Posted By: Kodiak Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/01/21 06:26 AM
When you call Ian, ask him about the 54,000uF that the za1000 specs out at vs the 60,000 of the Ada-1000.

Just saying.

I think that za-1000 would be a great one box well powered solution! Nice one.

You’re in a good position cork. No hurry to purchase and lots of options.

Happy New Year!
Posted By: aaaaaaaaaaaaa Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/01/21 01:25 PM
Or just keep the Yammie that you like the function of and strap external amps to it later if you feel the need.

It has line outs on it. Saved!
Posted By: Cork Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/01/21 02:11 PM
>> You’re in a good position cork. No hurry to purchase and lots of options.
Ha! You'd think; but it took me 4 months to decide on 'Cherry Chestnut'!

If the R-N803 had line out I'd definitely go that route. As it stands (and this is by no means my last word on it, not by a long-shot), I'm thinking a Yamaha WXC-50 with an ADA-1000. I'll mostly be using this to play CDs (and some HDTracks digital files) ripped to my NAS, and my wife will hit the internet radio now and again; so the WXC should be sufficient. I wanted to talk myself into one of those upgraded options, but I like taking a vacation this year too.

Thanks again everyone for all the advice. I won't be pulling the trigger until mid- to late-March; so if anythings strikes you until then, please post.
Posted By: Mojo Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/01/21 03:13 PM
That Yammie streamer looks pretty cool!
Posted By: Sinclair Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/18/21 03:35 AM
Hello, I just wanted to inject my 2c , though I realize I am coming late.
One more note, which I added at the very end of writing this post: my intention of commenting on paring Yamaha R-N803 with Axiom's M5HP transpired into something more. My apology if I went off-topic.

After 1 full year of research and hesitations, I have finally ordered a pair of M5HP and got it delivered shortly before last Christmas. The speakers have now close to 80h on the gauge and, by now, I have a very good understanding of what it takes to drive them properly and what one can expect from them. I listen to them with 3 different amplifiers: Marantz NR1403-50Wpc, Arcam A75-75Wpc and Denon AVR3805/120Wpc.

M5HP love power, however, they also love articulation. While Denon's 120Wpc delivers right amount of juice, it does not have the vocal eloquence to make M5HP fully happy (mind, I know Denons that could do that but they are outside my reach). Arcam A75 is a beautiful piece of audio master craft but its age (made in UK in 2001) shows off. The sound is too colored for the level of details M5HP projects. So, surprisingly, Marantz won the competition, even though it only pushes 50Wpc down the wire. Yes, the volume knob must be cranked up reasonably high but, after all, that is what the volume knobs are for. When I hooked my M4HP to Marantz, the quality of sound literally blew my head away. If you like fusion-Jazz , play Chick Corea's "City of brass" and... you will see it, not just hear it. And if you like Dire Straits, listen to "Ride across the river" and you will immediately understand why M5HP might indeed be the end-game pair of speakers you ever spent money on. The level of details that comes out in absolutely undistorted manner and dispensed with perfect level of power are the killer-feature and the secret-sauce of M5HP. It makes you wonder how is it possible. To round this part up, I will just say that I own 2 pairs of other well-regarded speakers (both are floor-stands) but none can deliver the magic of M5HP.

I can tell for sure that M5HP need an amplifier that is robust, confident and musically refined. Marantz and Yamaha are for sure in that category. Interestingly, I had Yamaha in my plans too, although it was one of the surround receivers. The plans changed, at least for a while. As long as we are talking about reasonable budget, Yamaha and Marantz may arguably represent the best possible choices to power M5HP. The ultimate dream setting for M5HP would be something like Yamaha A-S2200. Anyway, R-N803 seems to be great piece and it has excellent reviews. With 100Wpc (@ 4Ohm) it should deliver fantastic experience, when pairing it with M5HP, especially for jazz and classical.

Last but not least, M5HP not only bring extraordinary sound but also high-end "look & touch". The quality of make is implacable. I ordered mine in cherry/cinnamon and they look gorgeous, even better than in pictures. Although my family is not overly HiFi oriented, everyone loved them so much that they forced me to leave them in the living room for good (they were originally purchased for my basement system).

M5HP is the first pair of Axiom speakers I ever purchased but, ironically, I am afraid might not be the last one... LOL!
Posted By: Mojo Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/18/21 03:42 AM
Indeed, Sinclair. I drive mine with the Pioneer A9. Not the latest one but the good one. Dual mono construction with loads of power supply capacitance and headroom.
Posted By: Cork Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/18/21 11:34 AM
Thanks Sinclair, it was an interesting receiver comparison and I appreciate the feed back on the N803.

I have to confess, I've been home with nothing to do (recuperating from a hip replacement), so I had time to poke around the manual for my current receiver (Yamaha RX-V673) and it has a zone-2 that is both amplified and has pre-outs. In addition, I can stream music directly from my NAS using my phone or tablet. So I don't think I'm even going to need any additional hardware to start with.

BTW, I really like the Cherry Cinnamon finish!
Posted By: Rebulx Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/19/21 02:49 AM
Hey Cork, I'm late to this discussion but wanted to share what i've learned recently. I upgraded my receiver twice over the last few months, I can attest that power is not everything, just because it can push the speakers doesn't mean it will sound as advertised. My Yamaha RX-A860 pushed the M100 fine, no distortion but I had lots of EQ to dial them in and I hated the high end. Ian was quick to send out the older tweeters that I liked and it solved the problem. I then got my hands on a Yamaha RX-A1080 which was a big upgrade, cut the EQ adjustments in half and I started to like the M80 on walls. I now have the CX-A5200 with external amplification and it's miles better in sound. Very little EQ adjustment and the V4 tweeters are much better now! I had no idea just how much a difference a receiver could make on the sound. From what i've heard a good DAC makes all the difference. If you don't want to go pre/pro I've heard that the DAC on the RX-A3080 is the same as the 5200. The 3080 is the smarter purchase, you can use the internal amps and always add external later with the pre amp outs. Neither units are truly balanced though.
Posted By: Sinclair Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/19/21 03:52 AM
Hi Cork, I smiled when I read your last post ("I don't think I'm even going to need any additional hardware to start with"). I am exactly in the same spot. My plan was to go for M5HP and add Yamaha receiver to start my long belated upgrade of sound & vision system in the basement. But the speakers ended up in the living room, where I have Oppo BDP-103 player with before mentioned Marantz. The Oppo machine can decode pretty much everything I own in digital format, including small collection of SACDs. So now I am less motivated, though Ymaha is surely on my dream-list. Yours and Rebulx enthusiasm for Yamaha is very reassuring and only makes me wanted it more.

Thank you for the compliment on cherry/cinnamon. The color works great in pretty much any room, it is lively enough to not be boring but does not burn your eyes out. Perfect harmony with the sound speakers generate wink. Axiom workshop is doing amazing job putting those things together.

What colors are yours and have you already received them or not yet ?
Posted By: Cork Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/19/21 12:31 PM
Thanks Rebulx, that's good info as I hadn't really looked deeply at those models and it led me to review them all more thoroughly and note the differences. (I really miss the comparison across all models Yamaha used to provide.) They do look nice! That said, I'm reluctant to shell out for a multi-channel system for a stereo application.

If I go with the LFR660's I'll get amplification with them; and if I go with the M80s I can see how ig goes and then add an amp in later. I know I like the Yamaha DAC, because up til now I've been decoding through Plex (I know, but they make it *so* easy), and when I tried out the direct streaming from the NAS to the Yamaha (RX-V681) it sounded better.

Sinclair, I do like the Yamaha sound, I've been using them for a while now (gone through 2 and have 2 now). I tried a couple Onkyo's and one of the slim-line Marantz line and Yamaha sounded better to me. (So you may not like Yamaha as much if the 1403 suits your taste.) I also have Anthem on my wish list; but they're expensive and I'm not a fan of their recent external design change. Superficial, I know; but I have to like looking at the equipment, I just can't help myself.

I have black M5's in my theater set-up (so they're "invisible"), and I have Cherry-Nutmeg in my music set-up. Truth be told I wanted the Cherry-Cinnamon, but it was no longer available when I went to order and I was too impatient to ask if it was coming back. I think the nutmeg is very close to the cinnamon, but with a slight tint of yellow (I'd still prefer the cinnamon, oh well). For my living room I think I'm going with Cherry-Chestnut. Although the current picture doesn't look like the snap I grabbed a few months back, so I'll have to ask about that.
Posted By: Sinclair Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/20/21 06:40 AM
Hi Cork, I just had a look at Cherry-Chestnut and I really like it. The combination somehow escaped my eyes and I was not aware of it until you mentioned it. It is obviously dark in tone and very different than Cinnamon but very handsome I must say!

I do not think that you can blame yourself for being "superficial" when it comes to the design of audio equipment. For hi-fi enthusiast, the look of audio gear is as important as the look of a car for who have passion for cars. I personally admire Yamaha classic design, the one they continue for their upper-level stereo amplifiers and consider that a true high-end.

It is true I am am happy with my Marantz, but I love to experiment and have lots of curiosity and now, with M5HP at my home I need something with higher punch that can also deliver proper detail and depth. My reverence for clean, not cheap-looking design and consistently high reviews drive my desire toward Yamaha. If I ever had opportunity to indulge, I'd go for the silver-face/wooden-sides amp, such as A-S2200. Though, I be happy to settle at something less luxurious. I must say that you brought my attention to R-N803 and I even started thinking if that could be the way to go.

It is nice chatting with you - I hope your recovery goes smooth !
Posted By: Mojo Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/21/21 02:49 AM
My 125v4s and Freedom are dressed in cherry chestnut natural satin. Timeless!
Posted By: Cork Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/23/21 11:39 AM
Sinclair, yeah, the cinnamon and chestnut are very different; I tend to like the lighter wood stains more, but my wife wanted to match the other furniture in the living room, which made perfect sense. But once I started looking at it closely I really came to like the chestnut. My only problem is that the snap I made of it a few months back doesn't look anything like the sample that comes up on the web site now; so I order some sample from Axiom.

I keep bouncing back and forth on whether I like the solver finish receivers more, or the black. I think push com to shove, if the model I wanted had silver I'd go with that. If only to come full circle with the gear I had back in the 70s after years and years of black.

And yes, it's definitely been fun sharing info and even better thoughts and opinions. I'm going to have to poke my head in here more often. I noticed that there's an Axiom Facebook page. I almost sighed up, but I like to stay off of Facebook so I didn't in the end. Anyone know if that is more active than the forum?
Posted By: Mojo Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/23/21 09:34 PM
If the cherry cinnamon is so nice, I really ought to plan for more subs. Nine are not enough.
Posted By: CV Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/24/21 01:19 AM
Originally Posted by Mojo
If the cherry cinnamon is so nice, I really ought to plan for more subs. Nine are not enough.

You're finally getting it.
Posted By: Cork Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/24/21 10:39 AM
Nine subs! How many per system?
I have one per system and I'm very happy.

Maybe 10 years back I was hearing more about what I think were called "mid-bass" subs. I don't see that any more, but is that what you're doing? Or are you just covering a large area or dead zones?
Posted By: Mojo Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/24/21 03:57 PM
I've written lots about this.

I have 5 in the main room and 2 in the living room. Two more 500s in walnut espresso and boston cherry are coming. All v4.

The main room has a black oak 800 front and centre, two 600s in walnut caramel on the side and two 500s in walnut natural in the back. One 800 would have been enough for anyone. I bought the two 500s with my active LFRs and immediately noticed more spatial diversity with the bass. With the current topology and the 600s added to the mix, there's a holy level of saturation simply not possible with any single sub. Of course there's also the headroom but that was never an issue even with just a single 800.

I have two 125s in the living room flanking opposing corners for use with the M5OW. With those, the bass is more mid-bassy (50 to 80 Hz) given the 125 response curve. What's very interesting however is just how textured the bass is even though the mid-bass just pops! I know it's not right but I don't care. It's totally addictive in its own way. So I have smooth, deep, saturating bass downstairs and pounding mid-bass upstairs. But both are very articulate.

The two new 500s will go in the living room and I'll see how they behave with the 125s. Andrew has said multiple subs should all be of "equal weight" but I think if you're careful in placement and adjustment, you can make it work very well. So maybe I can get both mid-bass pound and depth. We'll see.

BTW, I can hear growls and other effects from string bass with the sealed subs which I can't hear from SVS, Hsu and Klipsch/Polk/KEF (not even in the same league as the others). The 125 as well but they can't get as low and hit harder in the mid-bass.

I just became aware mid last year that Axiom made subs, of uniquely different design, that it hasn't announced. Likely they were custom. I think there's a lot of skunkworks going on over there that we're simply not privy to. I can't substantiate it but rumours have it that Ian has a lab in the Kamchatka Penninsula where he caters to the Soviet elite. I've heard stories of other labs too but it's all just speculation and conjecture.
Posted By: Cork Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/25/21 01:59 PM
I've probably never read about your subs because I tend to skip over sub posts. I confess I've never been a sub-head. But your description does make it sound interesting, and just like the omni's, apparently I've been missing out by keeping my head in the sand; so I'll have to expand my range. Again.
Posted By: Mojo Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/25/21 02:48 PM
When I moved from the 600v2 to the 800v4, it was a revelation. It wasn't so much the 800. It was the v4. Then I had another revelation when I added two 500s up front.

No matter how good, one sub is not enough for most rooms. Even in my 1900 cu ft living room, one 125 or one 500 isn't the same as twins. Twin 125s give me more emotionally fulfilling bass than a single 500.

As for the omnis, adequate space is needed to fully extract their capabilities. I am much happier with M5s or even M2s (have both) in my living room over active LFR1100s. I keep saying all most people need is M2s and a good, sealed sub.
Posted By: Robby Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/28/21 01:09 AM
I have the Yamaha R-N803. Great receiver and it powers my PSB stratus Golds which need a lot of current with no problem at moderate to fairly high levels with good bass too. Not as incisive if I can use that word as my Bryston 3 because of the current issue but it's smooth and really handy for all it does including bluetooth, remote, vinyl and internet radio.
803 doesn't have HDMI connections but I connect it to the TV sound with the optical connection. Handy all in one with decent sound. The M80 is an easier drive than the Golds so should pair well.
Posted By: Mojo Re: Yamaha R-N803 Adeqaute for M80HPs? - 01/28/21 02:38 AM
The Bryston could use a pair of M5s.
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