Hi all,

I have been looking for nice looking on wall speakers and I really like the design and look of the onwall speakers for the start of my HT. The room size is 9x10. The couch is along the back wall. View distance to TV is 7.5 - 8 ft.

I want to do a 5.1 system eventually, but looking to buy the LR speakers first and build on over time. I am running an Onkyo N6050 from costco.

I am looking at the M3, M22, and the M5HP options. Would the M5 be too much speaker for the small space or do you think this will be sufficient for the room? I like the M5 is a three way system and I wont need a sub right away.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thank you.

On-walls are a great choice.

The M3 are too warm-sounding. The M5 are too much for your room but with AccuEQ on your Onk, you can tame them nicely.

M2 would work really well. They are more accurate than the M5 within their range. In your smallish room, the bass from the M2 would get you by until you get a sub.

The M2 will also be an easier load on your Onk. The M5s, with their large motor on the woofer, demand some power. Note your Onk is not continuously rated for the 4 Ohm load the M5 presents. The M5 will function but it may not perform during dynamic pieces.

I have M2 and M5 on-walls as music fronts for my 1900 cu ft living room. I use the M2 exclusively now for music.

I appreciate the feedback! I haven't much considered the M2s. Most of the usage will be for tv and movies. Some music too. I've read a lot of great things about the m5,but wondered if they would be too much for the space. Makes sense the onkyo would not be able to push the m5s as well.

Now if I go with the m2 I wonder if the VP 100 would do well as the center channel.

I would start with just the m2s. The phantom center in your size room would probably be very efficient.

I know everyone loves the M2, but I think the M22 is always the better choice; it has the same "sonic signature" and doesn't drop off the map at 70 Hz (in the non-OW model, there's no specs for the OW). And I wouldn't rule out the M5OW either, even for the 9x10 room. I'm currently using three M5HPs, two Advent mini surrounds, and a small sub in a 13x14 room and it's not too much at all. So I don't think the M5OWs would be out of place in the OP's room. And avoiding the sub could be nice if it's going to be a music system, or just to reduce space requirements in a smaller room.

Also, the M5 (HP or OW) is rated at 8 ohms, so any standard receiver would drive it; even though it dips lower from 100-500Hz, that's taken into account for the overall rating (so Mojo, you have to explain yourself on that one). I've having no problem driving the M5s and mini-Advents now with a Yamaha RX-V681, and I've used an RX-V673 in the past.

Hah, once again, I appreciate the input. I was planning on buying a sub eventually to add onto the system. My main goal here is to find the best type of on wall speakers for such a small space that will last a long time.

I'm sure I couldn't go wrong with any of the speaker choices here. I just want nice L and R speakers where the dialogue will be clear and brings the immersive feeling of a good sound system.

So I guess i need to figure out from the M2, M22 and M5s.

Thanks again

More bass is not always a good thing particularly when a smallish driver is asked to play at a range that taxes it. Also room and placement becomes trickier with extended bass particularly when that bass isn't linear.


See the graph below. The horizontal line indicates the M5 is more like a 6.3 Ohm load. And it dips below 5 in the mids. Most would get confused by a rating like this so Axiom has chosen to present it as an 8 Ohm load rather than a 6 Ohm or a 4 Ohm. Like I said, it will function with that Onk but it may not perform during dynamic pieces.

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/m/5/m5hp-impedance.png

Sorry I am a newb where it comes to impedance. I have read some things about this here, but basically what this is stating, is that during lower frequency output of the sound it will cause the Onkyo to struggle some in powering the M5s and result in distortion? Just curious as the receiver is rated from 4-16 ohms I believe.

I'm by no means an audiophile type of person.

I drove the M5s in my 4200 cu ft theatre with my Onk and no sub to enjoyable but certainly not party levels. My Onk was almost as good as Axiom's ADA-1000-2 amplifier. Your Onk is not quite like mine but it will power the M5 in your smallish room as long as you're not looking for a disco fever experience. I'd go ahead with the M5 if I was you. Your Onk will not get destroyed if that's what's worrying you.

I have a M2/VP150/EP500 setup for a 77” tv in my family room. The room is 18x18’ but only 1/2 is used for tv viewing (other 1/2 ping pong) … even in that large space that combo sounds great. Oh … its 5.1 … a pair of QS10s are on the back wall.


I would definitely go with the M2 on-walls with a sub. A phantom center vs a real one is dependent on how many seats get a decent image. If it’s only you then go phantom. If your going for more then 2 seats then a real center my be required … I’m happy with my VP150v4. The QS10s are killer for 5.1 and 7.1 setups. They have exceeded my expectations in this room.

The other options are also fine … I’ve listened to M5ow’s and M3ow’s sitting where the M2’s are in the picture above and both sounded great … although I only listened with the ep500 …

Psychologically, the M5s look like they'd be better than the M2s. It was a tough battle in my living room between psyche and reason. Reason won.

Cork also mentioned the M22 … it’s not on the website anymore but Ian has mentioned that he can still make them. It sounds a lot like an M2 but claims to be about 3db more efficient (i.e. needs 1/2 the power to drive them to the same level). Since Mojo is pointing out the m2 may look small … the M22 might have an aesthetic advantage here.

While this has nothing to do with me at all, I kinda get the aesthetic advantage of the m22 as rrlev suggests. Plus an easier to drive load is an advantage giving you slighlty more overhead for the L/R, then use subs (2.2) to support / establish a proper low end thus relieving the m22 of bass duty, (with a properly blended builtin crossover in the sub) assuming your processor or amp has bass managment, use .2 to smooth the response with 2 smaller subs rather than one big one in a smaller to medium space. Dam, that sounds like I nice system. Rrlev, you have m22's correct? I recall seeing pics of yours with them.

Yup, have M22’s in the Master in combo with QS8’s in the rear.

Hey Everyone, I appreciate everyone weighing in here. I decided to pull the trigger on the M5s. They actually had the color i was looking for in the B stock section so i was able to save another $100 on them. I suppose if they are too much i can always spend the $30 to return them. Doubtful that will happen though.

Thank you!

I’m sure the M5’s will be fine and are a good choice if you’ll be without a sub for awhile

Sweet!!!! Enjoy!!!!! Look forward to a review and impressions of what you think. Congrats.

Which color / finish did you get?

I got the whitewash maple color.

Congratulations Eblack, I think you'll love them! You were in a good position because there wasn't a wrong choice among your options. And finding what you want in the B-stock is always a treat. Axiom is good on returns, there's no run-around or arm-twisting; the hardest part is taking them down and putting them in the box.

And now back to our normal thread diversion ...
I've always liked the look of the M22 over the M2. Framing it that way was insightful Mojo and rrlev.

Mojo, I wasn't emphasizing "more bass", in fact, that's what I don't like about the M3, that little mid-bass bump. It's not bad, just more noticeable than I prefer. (But I didn't return them, so not that bad.) What I was talking about is the early bass drop-off of the M2. Not a problem if you have a sub, but in the smaller room the M5 might not need the sub. And the M22 is *extremely* linear; there's no bump, just an extension down low before it drops off.
As for the impedance graph, I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Going by an "area under the curve average" (and I have no idea if that's valid for impedance), it looks like the M5s would come in at around 8 ohms assuming most music has as much over 1K as under. But more importantly, the only under-6 ohm gap I see is a small bathtub from 100-500 Hz. I snapped the line at 6 ohm because it feels like that's where amp manufacturers get antsy about speaker ratings. All that said, I'm definitely winging it; so more info on reading that chart is welcome.

My M2’s/EP500 are natural maple and the QS10’s are whitewashed maple … I love those colors! Especially against the gray and purple walls. They will match almost any color and not look as heavy in the room as say the natural walnut. It will also go with a white screen if I ever switch to a UST projector for that room (which may happen as I personally would like a bigger screen in the family room since the couches are a bit further back then I originally planned)

What are the dimensions of your M2/EP500 room rrlev?

As I've always said, the early bass drop-off of the M2 can be a great advantage compared to the extended bass range of the M3 and M5. The M3 and M5 may go boom in smaller rooms. Now of course if you plan on using room correction, bass boom will likely not be a problem.


Do you see the light green horizontal line that Axiom included in the graph below? That line is at ~ 6.3 Ohms. Axiom chose to call the M5 an 8 Ohm nominal speaker but it is really 6.3 Ohms nominal. Why did Axiom place the line at 6.3 Ohms? Because the IEC method of specifying nominal loudspeaker impedance calls for the minimum impedance to not fall below 80% of nominal. 80% of the nominal 6.3 Ohms is the approximately 5 Ohms which occurs in the valley between 150 Hz and 300 Hz.

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/m/5/m5hp-impedance.png

I didn't even come close to seeing that line at 6.3! And all the rest was very interesting - thanks.
I guess if someone were to use a smaller amp the M5 would not be ideal, but I still think any "standard" amps from the major manufacturers would not flinch.

See post #445033 above

And I even looked first too. Well, my wife does say I can't find my nose.

But wow. I would never have even considered M2s for that size room.
That's roughly 2500 sq; I have M80s in a 2000 primary (LR), 3500 total area (+DR+kitchen); albeit just stereo, no sub. Maybe I've been over-compensating.

So when would you use M5s, what's the cut-over? (Room size, use, something else?)

I would have used M5's but my wife wanted something small. I could have, and probably should have, gone with M5ow's as we really only use the system for TV/Movies. At the time I was thinking that I wanted something I could place (toe-in) for 2 channel. Ian recommended the M5's but also felt the the M2 would be fine in the room ... he was right. The M2/VP150 are plenty loud as the EP500 does the heavy lifting below 80hz or so ... The system blends perfectly.

My biggest problem with the M2's is that my family keeps moving the left speaker as my wife tells me it's in the way when she works out and the kids tell me it's in the way for ping-pong ... So, we might move to M5ow's in the future.

the M5's can play louder than the M2 but I think the real reason to go with the M5 would be to crossover to the sub at a lower frequency. I haven't noticed a problem but there probably is some low-end directional info being lost with the M2's

With bass management in play, do you think a pair of m5hp with twin ep500 (2.2) could be integrated better than a single pair of towers? ( all other things being equal otherwise?) Say compared to a set of m60/m80/m100v4? Seperate out the bass?

Im just making stuff up here, but there must be some logic there? Maybe?

The M2 plays cleanly to ~100dBC @1m without a sub. The M5 does the same to ~103dBC.

With a sub crossed at 80Hz, the M2 can be pushed to 103dBC cleanly. The M5 can be pushed to 107dBC.

I've used both, in bookshelf form on stands, in my 4400 cu ft room as fronts at a 14 foot MLP. Both acoustically disappear very well with the advantage going to the M2 in that department.

I much preferred the M2 or M5/800 combo over M100/800 in my main room. The M100 had the larger images but I could not render them acoustically invisible. Acoustic invisibility is paramount to me.

.

Spend some time listening to both the M3 and M60 in there. See what qualities you like of those two. The M5 will give you similar sound as the M60 while disappearing as well as the M3.

Whoops, did it again. Ill move my comments to my own thread, sorry...

Hah I will be sure to post my thoughts on the M5OW when I get them in 3-4 weeks. Since this thread is still going, what is the next piece to my system I should consider? Sub, surrounds, center? I saw some suggestions with a phantom center here. There is two of us that would be watching the tv. Plan on purchasing the next item later this year in the winter. Will likely wait to see if Axiom runs a sale in November.

A VP100v4 on-wall or M2v4 on-wall center depending on what fits your space best.

Whitewash Maple VP100!

https://www.axiomaudio.com/bst-99

I’d say subs after the Center, 2 x ep125!

Lol I did see this on the site. I think my wife would kill me if I bought that now, but I will probably end up getting this center next later this year.

Yeah but think about this. What if the missus is off-centre when she's listening to the M5s? And she curses you because the dialog isn't in the centre and sounds weird? Then she's gonna come down hard on your ass, yeah? So I guess one tactic may be to give her the good spot right between the M5s so she don't complain.

Okay, so I was on the right track; I just wasn't going the M2 enough credit.

Always a tough choice! For music I'd say it would be the sub; but you really won't need it that much. (At least with my standard M5s sometimes I set it to large and go without the sub in my smallish room (12x13). For movies, if you are more into action, then the sub; if drama is more your thing, then the center for the dialog.

music wise there are 2 reasons you might consider a sub:
1 - you receiver or amp doesn’t have enough power. The low end takes a lot of energy which can/will effect all the frequencies if it runs out of juice.
2 - your into organ or electronic music with a lot of content below 30-40 hz

So, Music wise In most cases your fine with just the M5’s If you play it at reasonable volumes … I would not worry especially in a small room unless your into cranking it.

Video wise a sub is a big deal unless you have well amp’ed mains which can truly go down to the 20Hz area. It’s the boom, rumble, and whomp of any action movie.
A center is important to anchor dialog / action to the center of the screen for all seats … it’s more important in a small room as there is probably a smaller sweat spot.

Bottom line is that only you can prioritize which to go for first …

Thanks again for the feedback all! Appreciate it. I will mainly be using it for movies, so I will likely go center first and then sub.

Depending on room acoustics and how loud you listen, the M5s may give you an enveloping virtual surround effect. In that case, sub first would make sense. Otherwise, QS10s as side surrounds all the way!

Got my M5s earlier this week and got them installed today. I must say, they certainly sound amazing, however, the bass is not as much as I thought it would be so I will likely look to get a sub sooner rather than later. The clarity of sound that comes from them is wonderful.

I only spent about 20 min with them and the receiver, so I haven't updated many of the settings to tune them. I will likely make another post when I have more time with them and adjust the eq on the AV. I am satisfied with the choice i made.

How’s the m5’s going? Tell all! Hope you are enjoying them, no doubt you are.

Still feeling the need for a sub?

Do the OW have less bass then the bookies? They must. The bookshelves cabinet must give more bass than the OW just based on cabinet volume no?

About 10Hz less. I am very satisfied with the bass out of the M5OW and M5.

I guess Mr.Eblack is coming at it from a movie effects perspective. Would be great to hear his opinion on channel.

Thanks for sharing mojo. The OW bass response could be tuned by where on the wall they go, ie: more or less hollow or soft behind them?

Hmmmm...no. I don't think you can tune that way. Room EQ or at least a bass control. I'll tell you though. My Pioneer's bass control couldn't attenuate the prodigious bass enough in my living room. I had to also cut via me Chromecast Audio. I'm talking OW and bookshelf. Even with M2OW, I had to cut some bass. My main room is a different story though. Bass was good there and Audyssey XT32 cleaned it right up.

I gotta try out room correction software. Sounds really cool.

It has to be XT32 or better.

I absolutely love the M5OWs. I am new to using an AV receiver so it took a few weeks to get the speakers to the point where I am satisfied with the bass. At first when I was using them, I thought the bass was not noticeable at all and thought I would need a sub immediately. However, I found out the problem was that when I first set them up, the frequency cutoff on them was too high. When I did the AccuEQ on my receiver this past weekend, it setup the speakers at full range and what a difference it made now.

The bass they put out is surprising good and satisfying for both watching shows and listening to music. I don't see the need to get a sub so quickly now, but I will be getting one later this year at some point as I do like to have the air move when watching shows or movies. The M5s do create some pressure in the room at times at the lower frequencies though, so I cant really complain. If I had to make the choice again, I would go for the M5OWs in my space.

I like the M5s enough that I ended up purchasing the VP100 that was on the bstock. Hasn't shipped yet, but I am looking forward to receiving that.

One thing about getting good speakers is I never really noticed the poor quality of the sounds from music on YouTube until I started using these speakers. Sometimes I will listen to a song and I hear noise like the speaker is bad or distorting, but then I will pull up another rendition using the same tone and I find out its the quality of the stream on YouTube and not the speakers.

I would be interested to hear the difference between the bookshelf and OW versions, but the On walls sound great and look great too.

I did not know that prior to AccuEQ you had the cut-off set to a "high" frequency. In your small room, if you turn AccuEQ off and run them full range, you may get blown out of the room. I bet though, AccuEQ makes them more enjoyable.

BTW, I chuckled when you accelerated your VP100 purchase. Now when you and the missus are watching, you'll both be happy campers.

You'll have to run AccuEQ again.

I had no idea either that the speakers were setup that way when I did the initial setup the first time either. They still sounded great too with the way they were initially setup and had some bass to them.

I haven’t compared th M5 to its on-wall side by side but by memory, which doesn’t mean much, they sounded similar. Same with the M3 and M3ow.

The bookshelf can be made to image and soundstage better depending on placement. Their bass is fuller and less distorted. The OW though are no slouch.

Yup, totally agree … said as much in post Post445061

I said that in a plethora of other posts too so nya!

Well I said it first … so double nya!! and I thumb my nose at you sir

I double thumb...from both nostrils.