AXIOMS and the YAMAHA RX V2400 + Stryke Sub

Okay first off I am an Audiophile idiot and a virgin. Having that said and cleared here is my query:
I just finally got to setting up my first HT. My setup includes the Yamaha RX V2400, Axiom M22's in front, Axiom VP150 center, Axiom QS8's surrounds, and a Stryke Audio Mini Thunder Sub, which has a 350 watt amp. Now with all of this "power" I am genuinely disappointed in everything. But I know it is from lack of knowledge, and experience with the equipment that I cannot get these tweaked. There appears to be NO "true" bass from the sub, and all the speakers don't sound right. Y'know they sounded a little better when I first hooked them up BEFORE using the auto calibration feature. But now, I feel disgusted. I did find thru reading and calling that the auto calibration does not work well with the sub setup. I just don't hear the distinct sounds in the surrounds, the "BOOM" of the bass etc. I am very weak at this, I read the manual and it seems like I need an engineering degree. Would I be better served having someone come in and calibrate this, or can someone in laymans terms assist me. I would love to finally play with this toy, but right now I am so frustrated I play the satellite thru regular TV. Any help believe me will be MUCH appreciated.

In reply to:
I read the manual and it seems like I need an engineering degree

I feel ya on this one buddy! I hate the manual. It doesn't give enough detail. I also have the 2400 and I have it sounding great. There are a lot of options as to how to set things up so experimenting is everything.

If you have some specific questions on setup please feel free to PM me and I'll be glad to help. You've got a great setup and one to be proud of and once you get it dialed in it will sound fantastic. Just hang in there.

Davey, to be frank you're not in general supposed to hear "distinct sounds" in the surrounds or "boom" in the bass. It's your money, of course, so adjust the levels to suit your taste, but many listeners tend to set the levels of both their sub and their surrounds too high because they want to "hear" them. Wrong. The sub isn't supposed to be heard as a separate source, but rather to give the impression that it's not working but the other speakers are putting out more bass. Often there's nothing but subtle ambience effects happening in the surrounds. I'm not there, of course, but I strongly suspect that the settings YPAO reached are pretty accurate and should be trusted. I'm reminded of a post I read on another audio forum about a week ago in which the poster actually said that the YPAO was "inaccurate" in setting the bass level because he had to turn the sub way up to hear it. Unfortunately we can't "just trust our ears".

In reply to:
you're not in general supposed to hear "distinct sounds" in the surrounds or "boom" in the bass.

John, you are absolutely right about all this but having lived with the 2400 for 2 months I beleive his problems stem from the pre "auto setup". This thing is not as easy to set up as it should be. There are some steps that must be taken in the "manual setup" to ensure proper "auto calibration" for;size,room,LFE assignment, etc.

On top of all this, the auto calibration is not always accurate. For instance, it often recognizes one or both of my "side surround speakers as large. Aslo, almost every time I run the damn thing is recognizes one of my mains as "out of phase"(they are not). I don't even trust it on "speaker distance".

Here's what I recommend to Davey:
1. Go into the "manual setup"
2. From the set menu select "manual setup"
3. Slect "basic menu"
4. Select your correct room size S,M, or L
5. Next move the curser to SWFR and select yes
6. Move to "presence" and select "yes" or "none".
7. Move to "speakers" and select the number of speakers that you have hooked up.
8. important: Be sure to select "set" before leaving this menu and all other menus that you're finish with or else your new setting will not keep.

At this point you will hear test tones. You can ignor these and select yes to exit (trust me).

Now move to the "Sound Menu" and:
1. Select "speaker set" and scroll through and set all speakers to "small". Be sure to set "LFE/BASS OUT" to "SWFR".(if you don't your bass will suffer). Set "Crossover" to "80hz"(a good starting point and THX recommended).
2. Skip past "speaker level" (you will let the auto setup do this for you later)
3. This next step is "speaker distance" you can either set it here manually or let the "auto setup" do it for you later.
4. Move to "graphic EQ" and select "PEQ".
5. Move to "LFE Level" and set "speaker" to "0db"
6. Skip "Headphone". (you can fiddle with it later if you desire)
7. Skip "Dynamic Range". (No effect on auto calibration just headphones.)
8. Skip "Low Frequency Test". Auto setup will do it for you later.

Move to next Menu:"Audio Set"
1. Select "Audio mute" set to either "mute" or "-20db" or you can skip and do this latter as it has no effect on "Auto setup".
2. Move to "audio delay" and set to "0ms"
3. Move to "Dialg lift" and set to either on or off. (I like it on)
4. Move to PR/SBch and select if you have either "presence" or "Surround Back" or just leave it alone if you don't have either.

Next is "Input Menu":
Skip through this altogether. You can come back to it at a later time if you need to.

Next is "Option Menu":
Skip this as well and come back at a later time.

Now you are finally ready for "auto setup".

Plug in the microphone.

Follow the directions 1-3 on P.25 of the manual and you should be at the "Auto:Menu".

1. "Wiring": Set this to "skip" if you know all your wires are hooked up correctly. Even if your wires are correct it will often "see" one as "out of phase". (it drove me crazy the first few times and it just kills time)

2. "Distance": set this to check if you didn't set it manually before.

3. "Size": Set this to skip because you should have set this manually before(if you remembered to move the cursor to "set" before you left the menu. I've made that mistake a few times)

4. "Equalizing": I recommend setting this to "Flat". (You can experiment later if you wish.)

5. "Level": set to check.

6. "Setup": set to "step" if you want to see the results of the "auto eq" test. Otherwise set to "auto" ( note: if you set to auto, you will not be able to scroll through the EQ results of each speaker).

7. Push the "+" button to start "auto setup" and be "verwy verwy qwiet".

8. Exit the menu, put away the mic, load up a movie, sit back and enjoy.

Please remember to pay careful attention to the LFE/Bass out step(set to SWFR) and remember to move the cursor to "set" each time you leave a menu after making settings.

You have some killer equipment and should be having a great HT experience.

mwc

Mike, couldn't you be a little more specific?.......Excellent!!

I think that's the longest post I've ever read on these boards. And I mean read, not skimmed. Makes me wish I had a 2400, just to try it out. Great post!

Ever have one of those nights when you couldn't sleep and there is nothing on TV so you turn to the computer?

Ken, I appreciate the kind words. Cheers!

In reply to:
couldn't you be a little more specific

Certianly! What specifically do you need more info on?

When Davey said "but right now I am so frustrated I play the satellite thru regular TV." - well, we just can't have that. I just hope Davey finds it useful and is able to get that gear dialed in.

Mike;

Maybe you should have gotten MCACC.

MCACC/KIBERS/Grenn Sharpie rules!!!!!!

I did buy a VSX-47TX with MCACC and kept it for 2 weeks before I brought it back for the Yamaha. I think the unit I had was defective because the MCACC sucked the life out of the center ch. no matter which speaker(KEF, Axiom) I used. And the MCACC on that model wasn't manually adjustable. And the EQ was "graphic" only. The Yamaha YPAO offers parametirc EQ and I believe it is more precise.

Mike;

As with my comment above I was just kidding around.
I was hoping Audioholics could compare the latest MCACC with the latest YPAO. The new series MCACC is not graphical and is parametric with different frequencies as the YPAO. It is also manually adjustable. Based on the Audioholics review YPAO was a little off and was not detecting the right speaker size.
As with using the auto calibrating software I personally still like setting all the sound levels manually and the speaker size. I only auto calibrate the EQ for all speakers.
I can not vouch for the earlier software vesion of the MCACC but with the current version of MCACC the center channel definitely has a lot of punch now when configured with the VP150. It definitely did a better job than when I had it configured manually with a PMC center channel that cost 3 times the VP150.

Wow, some light shed upon a darkened space. I just printed out your directions, and will attemp this Monday. I re-read the "manual", and nman oh man, I finished with a headache. What's all this I read about setting up the "parameter" menu. Should I go into this at all? Or stay away. What about the "straight" selection? Which gets me the surround sound, leaving off the straight or effect?
Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it, I will report back ASAP on my experience. I hope this solves MY problem, as I know it's not the equipment.
Any other hints to using or enjoying the 2400?

"Any other hints to using or enjoying the 2400? "

Turn it up really loud...

Dave, you wouldn't want to even consider using the parameter menu to change any factory-set parameters of the sound fields until later when you have the basics straightened out. The "straight" setting gives straight 2-channel reproduction from 2-channel sources such as regular CDs or FM(e.g. no use of DPLII to give a surround effect)and 5-channel surround from DVDs without extra processing to the 5 channels. "Effect" would be set if some of the extra processing to either 2 or 5 channel material was wanted.