Here's a question for the gurus.
I was originally floored by Paradigm Studio 100s a couple of years ago for HT but got swayed by this board and got Axioms. Budget was also of some concern at the time. My setup is M22s, VP150, QS8s and HSU VTF-2 sub. The receiver is HK-525. This used to be my main system with 61" Samsung DLP in the living room. I am quite happy with the system but there has always been this nagging doubt that I may have compromised.
Now we moved into a new house and have a dedicated HT room in the basement. Budget is also less of an issue (within reason) now. I am getting a front projection with 126" screen. I considered shifting the original audio system from the family room and leave the TV alone upstairs but it did not seem right to leave such a beautiful TV without any support in audio. So, I am in market for a new system. This time, I am thinking of going the Paradigm route.
My question is this: Which of the two systems is better IF COST DIFFERENCE IS NOT A FACTOR?
1. Axiom M80s, VP150, QS8s, SVS sub/Servo 15
2. Paradigm Studio 100s, CC570, ADP470s, Servo 15 sub.
Both systems will use Denon 3805 and 3910/2910. If you were to do a blinded audition, which would sound better?
Actually, the cost difference may not be all that much if I drive to Canada and get them. I originally checked out the prices from a guy in Toronto and you can get Paradigms pretty cheap. Of course, I was Detroit then. Now I am in Cincinnati and that is a longer drive...
Thanks for all the input.
Ravi
you will likely get 20 different answers to this question, ultimately the decision of which is better can only be determined by you.
my advice, audition both and make an informed decision.
there is no way anyone can decide which will sound better to your ears.
Hey Ravi! I remember the photos of your 61" Sammy and your Axioms you posted. It was a very lovely setup. I used to link to your photos whenever anyone asked about that particular finish. I think it was beech, but it might've been maple. It was one of the lighter finishes, IIRC.
I'm not gonna be much help because I've no experience with the Studio 100s. But, I just wanted to say hello, welcome back, and welcome to the buckeye state.
Thanks, Jack. Yeah, they were beech and I think the setup is still on hall of fame page. The setup is pretty much the same in this house too.
About comparing the two directly, I heard the Studio 100s today and they sounded very good. In fact they were more open sounding than my m22s but that may not be a fair comparison. I remember thinking at one time that they both sounded very similar.
Jeff, it is true that the best test is with your own ears, but remember I bought the axioms without listening to them and I am quite happy with them. Let's see what others have to say.
Ravi
Ravi, read the last paragragh in
this post by Alan.
If Alan is correct, the 100s should sound very much like the 80s, and your decision is a win/win one. Go with whatever fits your tastes and wallet.
I had M22s, VP100, QS8 and Hsu STF-2 around my Samsun 50" DLP. I upgraded to M60s, VP150, QS8 and Hsu VTF=3R. It was a significant improvement, although the 1st config was very good.
My main suggestion is consider the Axiom EP500 or EP600 sub. It would save you a lot of money over the Paradigm Servo 15. Plus the color would match the other Axiom speakers.
I can offer my 2 cents.
In my comparisons of paradigm to axiom I absolutely love the rich sound of the paradigms. For me there is a complete difference in sound which I favor.
I have tried many axiom speakers, the 22's, the 3's the 60's, the vp150, the qs8's. The only ones I kept were the m60's.
I recently was using the m3's as my rears but I had wanted to bring home the paradigm mini monitors to audition in my home, I knew they sounded incredible in the store but things sometimes change in ones home.
Well to make a long story short I purchased them this week and couldn’t be happier with the sound. I actually shut off my front m60's to listen to some David Benoit today because the mini's produce the piano so clean and true.
I have been making the transition slowly to paradigm, as you can see in my sig im down to only the m60's, I think its just a matter of time before the monitor 11's reside here also.
I don’t want to take anything away from the axioms, they are a great speaker, but as I said before its all in the ear of the beholder.
It has been discussed many times that the M60 and M80 are very similar sounding speakers to the Studio 100. In fact, when someone cannot do an audition of Axiom speakers, it is often recommended to them to try out the Studio series.
You have been auditioning the 5 driver Studio 100 against the 3 driver M22 bookshelf? That does not quite seem fair.
Price not a factor? Price is always a factor. You could buy multiple M80's for the price of a Studio 100.
I think I might be able to add some good input. My friend has owned a Paradigm system (Studio 100's, ADP's, CC570). I have heard his system countless times as we were neighbors for 5 years. I now own M60's, VP150, and QS8's.
Much like yourself, I was floored when I first heard his system. It is basically what got me interested in home theater. To be honest, if I could have afforded Paradigm Reference, I would have never done any research on my own and just bought a Paradigm Reference system from a local dealer. However, I could not afford them nor did I want to pay that kind of money for a home theater. Hence, two plus years ago I began my own quest that ultimately led to my purchasing an Axiom system. On to my thoughts.....
Without any AB comparison, and only judging by my own ears, I find the Studio 100's to have a slight edge over the M60's. The most notable difference between the two is that the Studio's seem to emphasize the mid-bass region a little while the M60's remain more accurate. Overall they are very close sounding. For some reason, I never thought much of the ADP surrounds. I have always believed they are the weak link in the series. I easily prefer the QS8's over the ADP's....to my ears they just do everything better. As far as the center channel, they are again very close but I think the CC570 is marginally better. Vocals seem to be on par with one another, but the CC570 seemed to have more punch on DVD's.
One thing to consider is that my buddy's Paradigms are hooked up to some serious gear....much,much better than mine and 3 times the power. I have a 80/w channel NAD T752 and a bottom-feeding Toshiba DVD player. He has 3 2-channel Carver Research amps at 300w/channel, a Lexicon MC12B which is always set to Logic 7 for movies, and top of the line CD & DVD players. The differences in our gear is substantial and it is conceivable that it attributed at least to some degree to what I heard and therefore how I formed my opinions.
It would be interesting to see how the two systems compared if I was able to hook my Axioms up to his gear. It would certainly level the playing field. Maybe I should give him a call and see if he would do that some time?
My 2 cents... speakers were heard years apart.
I was not impressed with the Studio 100s (v2s, I think) when I heard them several years ago. I was far more impressed with the M22s when I heard them a couple years later. Now, the room I was in may not have been ideal (probably wasn't), and audio memory is extremely untrustworthy (see my M22/M50 comparison). Also, shortly after hearing the 100s, I heard top of the line Revel speakers. That kind of blew everything out of the water...
I missed the edit window and realized I screwed up the first sentence of my response.
It should read "My friend has owned a Paradigm system (Studio 100's,ADP's,CC570)for years." He still does own them.
Well, I have just finished shopping for my new HT setup, and I decided to go with Paradigm Reference for my mains and center. The reasons for doing so were simply that these were the best sounding speakers to my ear that I have ever heard. They are rich, full yet still very detailed. One thing to consider too is that these new v3's have a significantly upgraded tweeter which I think adds a lot to their clarity. I have never heard the old v2's, so I can't say how much they are improved. I can only attest to how great they sound to me. Now, the 100's were overkill for my new listening area, so I went with the Ref 60's and CC470. Like Mr. KC though, I found the QS8's to be superior to the ADP's, and also a better bargain to boot. Plus they look way better wall mounted in my opinion. Based on a few posts on this forum and a few elsewhere, I am going with the QS8's with my Paradigm setup, as I've heard timbre matching is very close.
Alas, I am waiting on my Paradigm mains to complete my HT setup (should arrive at my dealer today), so I can't comment on how they mesh with the QS8's.
The Axiom tech phone guy also talked me in to giving the EP500 a crack too. I will have it all setup and calibrated this weekend. I will post next week to attest to how this mix of Paradigm and Axiom works out.
Hey congrats.....I find my mix of paradigm and axiom to sound great. I never did get too wrapped up in the whole timbre matching stuff. To me you get too much of a certain sound with a room full of the same speakers and end up getting a headache (at least I did)
I find the subtle difference adds to the realism. Ask yourself how often you have ever heard the same timbre all around you in real life (timbre describes those characteristics of sound which allow the ear to distinguish sounds which have the same pitch and loudness)
I can answer that one for you…….never; your environment is filled with vastly diverse sounds.
Enjoy your new speakers!
Now you are going to make me want to come over and hear it once you get it all setup. I'd like to checkout the new Axiom sub. I'll let you get settled in with it for a while first.
FYI for everyone else, Bretsky came to my place to listen to the M22/VP150/QS8 setup with the VTF-2.
Good for you Bretsky! I hope someday to be able to hear the Paradigms somewhere. I look forward to your thoughts on mixing and matching.
Yup Zarak, you are welcome to come listen once I get it all set up. And your audition is what convinced me of the QS8's too.
Thanks Ajax and Genetic Drift, I will let you all know how it turns out.
FYI, the rest of my system setup consists of Pioneer Elite 56Txi, Pioneer Elite 59-avi and Sony VPL-HS51 projector.
I found that the studio 100’s (vrs III) sound is very akin to the M80’s. General impression I got, is that the 80’s have a tighter mid range, very similar base and a tad more detailed. I used the Pink Floyd DSOM disk when comparing. I do like the look of the 100’s better than Axiom, but not a $1000 worth. I should also mention that I heard the 100’s in a sound room and they were being driven by some pretty high end McIntosh gear and a CD player that I didn’t pay much attention to when I saw the $3500 price tag on it. Even with this gear driving them, I still think my set up sounds every bit as good (better with the addition of the sub). But to summarize all this babbling, the 100’s do sound very much like the M80’s. If you like the 100 sound, you’ll like the M80’s. Spend the $1000 you save on a good sub.
I dunno how you feel about buying used speakers but there is a pair for sale at my local high end audio shop in the used section.
http://www.targethifi.com/used.html
Its near the bottom of the list for 700 bucks CDN.
I am NOT using this forum to sell merchandise because that sure as hell is not my store, although I would kill for a set of VonSchweikert VR4 Jr. speakers they sell there...
Let Amie know that when you order so I get credit
Sorry guys, I had to leave for a couple of days and just got back. Great opinions so far. One thing I definitely did not think of is combining the Studio 100s with Axiom surrounds. That seems like a great idea. I am quite happy with the surrounds from Axiom and would not mind buying them again. I have to admit that I am not happy with the Center channel (VP150), though. I feel that that is the weak link in my current system. I will likely get the Paradigm CC.
In regards to price, yes it is always a factor but if the difference is relatively small, then it may be worth spending that extra money. Again, if got directly from Canada, the Studio 100s can be had for approx 2000 a pair (I have not personally confirmed this, but this includes the duty money you get back at the border, etc.) That is not all that much difference compared to M80s.
I have to check out the used speaker deal. Thanks for the link.
Ravi
If the Sutdio 100 sound similar to Axiom 60 and 80, is there a Paradigm speaker (or any other speaker I could easily audition) that sounds similar to the Axiom 40 or 50? Is the reason some people feel the 40 and 50 are "laid back" and even "dull" because they do not have a dedicated midrange driver, or is there more to it?
eduardo, I think the M40s sound "laid back" because that's the way Axiom describes them
here
"The M40 adds deep bass extension to a classic two-way design. This slender, elegant tower effortlessly produces smooth, laid-back music for a pleasant listening experience."
The M50s description says "You'll be thrilled with the clean bass produced by the M50's twin aluminum woofers! Its titanium tweeter delivers silky and detailed highs with a smooth, pleasant midrange."
M60s - "If you'd like the startling definition and realism of the M80 tower in a more compact, 8-ohm version, check out the M60s. A three-way system with triple vortex porting, a dedicated 5 1/4-inch midrange driver, titanium tweeter, and dual aluminum woofers, the M60 effortlessly reproduces the full musical spectrum."
Each has been designed to have a different sound.
In reply to:
Again, if got directly from Canada, the Studio 100s can be had for approx 2000 a pair (I have not personally confirmed this, but this includes the duty money you get back at the border, etc.) That is not all that much difference compared to M80s.
OK, I realize this was a week ago and Ravi's probably made his choice now, but how is $2000 not very different from the US$1240 for a pair of M80s? That $760 difference is incidental? AND you don't have to drive from Ohio to Canada to save the money?
OK...