hi. i currently have a pioneer 811 with jbl studio series 38 bookshelf and center with a kenwood 8 in sub kenwood bi-polar surround and old bose 301's as rear
i ws thinking of upgrading to klipsh but came across axiom and after the post here and the reviews i read i am thinking of taking the plunge speaker unheard.

my delema is as follows--do i go with the 22ti bookshelf--upgrading to ep 175--maybe 350 later or with the m60i now and keeping current sub fer added emphassis

i will be getting the vs150 center and the qs8's (unless i wont hear the diff with the qs4's in small room)

so the question is ---
1)go with the bookshelf and sub
2)get the fs and use current sub

btw the rooom is app 11x12 with 10ft ceiling

i think the fs would look real nice next to the 50 ws lcd rear proj i got last year
anythoughts or other suggestions welcome

thanks
gabe

Hmmm. Based on your room size the M22s would be more than enough, particularly for a primarily HT system. If you're going to be playing a lot of music (especially "loud") that would be where the M60s might be preferable... and you're right about the looks.

Do you already have good stands or would you be buying new stands ? I'm asking because good stands do close the price gap between M22s and M60s quite a bit.

If your system is going to be primarily for movies I would stay with M22s and hold out for an EP350. The price difference is pretty small, I think. Note that VP100 would also be fine for your room size if that lets you get an EP350 now rather than 175 and upgrade later...

re: QS4 vs. QS8 I don't know what to say there. I ended up going with QS8s but that was partly because I knew I would be moving the system to a larger room in the future. Might have gone with a VP150 as well but budget, you know...

I have seen several reviews that indicate the VP100 and VP150 sound pretty much identical (but the VP150 can handle larger rooms), haven't seen any similar comparisons between QS4 and QS8.

gotta love fast responses--thanks
i was choosing the 150 because i wanted a more hmm--fuller?--theater sound kinda boming like at the the theater.
we do occasionally listen to music some sacds actually 2-meatloaf and an elton john although do have a billy joel one but it is only stero sacd--go figure

I would say go for the M60s. The sound will be such an improvement that you will be very happy until you get a new sub. And then you wont feel upgradeitis like you might with the M22s.

I have m60s and love them, they sound great for stereo, and with a sub backing them I think you'd be very happy (although they sound great without one, unless you crave serious bass in everything you lsiten to.) To avoid "upgraditis", the m60s would be the best choice. I hear you on the floorstanding speakers comment, a large part of my original choice was that I simply wanted floorstanding speakers.

NOW, I would have to agree with the M60s, originally I would have suggested M22s for your sized room, but when you say you want a fuller, more theater like sound, well then, the jury is IN!

Yeah!! Big Difference!! And yes,floorstanders DO Look Good next to a wide screen-like they were made for each other!

Big TV, little bitty sound? NO WAY!!
My 2%of a US buck anyway.

I have to admit I'm in the same situation -- M22s probably would have been fine but I ended up getting M60s anyways and never looked back.

I am currently using the 60s primarily for music (HT is in a small room so M2 mains are doing fine) but they will go back to being the HT mains in a few months when I move into a new house with a much larger HT area.

There are many here that have worked their way through the same quandry. I personally dealt with it by buying the following configuration:

Pair M22s, Pair M60s, VP150, QS4s, & later the M1s for rear surround (7.1)

I chose the 150 for the same reason as you....fuller dialog and front presence. I opted for the QS4s because my theater is not very large, so the extra umph wasn't required in the rears. I've had weaker rears that still did just fine in that role. The M1s came about due to my desire for smaller speakers in the rear, since they are mounted to my ceiling.

Now...to the good stuff. I purchased both the M22s and the M60s because I needed to hear for myself the difference. I REALLY wanted the M22s to work in order to save the money. From a sequencing standpoint, I had the M22s sooner than my M60s, so they got first play. Out of the box, I was very impressed with the sound....super clean, clear, & crisp. I did some side-by-sides w/ my old Yamahas and they blew them away in their quality of sound. However, I was immediately aware that I might have a problem w/ the lows. I could fill that it somewhat w/ my sub, but it was still lacking something. Then, the 60s came.....All I had to say was WOW. The 60s took that clarity/neutrality of the m22s and filled in the gaps on the lower side of the sprectrum. To be thorough (and hopeful), I did some comparisons w/ the 22s + sub and the 60s. However much I wanted them to sound the same, there was just an audible gap in fullnes and continuity (low to high) that I couldn't get over. Both my wife and I really wanted to save the $, but we both agreed that the extra $ was worth the difference.....something telling when the better half agrees to spend an even larger chunk of change on YOUR hobby. So, the M22s went back into the box and onto Ebay where they found a new home.

Every time that I crank up my setup, I sit content that I have the right system for me and no cases of upgradeitits...at least on those components.

Caveats:
1. Undoubtedly, someone will ask about the sub I'm using. It's an older JBL, so I will agree that an upgrade of the sub might have narrowed that gap. However, I will stick to my guns that the 60s would still have given a more complete sound.

2. As with everything, these things are definitely subjective. This is just my opinion....and you know the addage about opinions. Just wanted give some personal experience to help w/ your decision.

hmm--not that i was too concerned--being one who usually goes by "the bigger is better" theory --or at least LOOKS better.
I think i will go with the 60's although i too was hopin to save some bucks going smaller. Since i had originally wanted to just upgrade the center for 400 range-1600 alittle more.
But i am impatient and dont wanna BUILD-i want full spectrum full movie theater enjoyment NOW
Although i explained to the wife that the only real way to see how much better than current system is to get most of parts-or in this case ALLL
To get the ok i had to agree to return if not a big diffrence in saound compared to what i have now--and be out the 60-70 bucks but know i dont have to upgr anymore----although i feel based on this site alone-not to mention others-that i will soon be a very happy neighbor hating axiom sound system
will put order in on monday for the 60's front-150 center
and 8s in the rear--just to handle the loud music in sacd that i play once a month
thanks all and i will continue tomonitor and hopefully post my own raves
happy easter
gabe

>>To get the ok i had to agree to return if not a big diffrence in saound compared to what i have now--and be out the 60-70 bucks

I think the risk of not seeing a big difference is pretty low... we're all pretty sure you're going to be blown away by the sound.

A couple of things to be prepared for :

1. The M60s are deeper than you might expect... if you don't look hard at the dimensions and think about the numbers you might be surprised. The shape is good for a variety of reasons -- they don't look so imposing from the front, the acoustics are a bit better, and the tall skinny layout gives you better imaging -- but it's still a bit of a shock when you open the boxes.

The shape is actually a good match for a big screen TV because they tend to be pretty deep as well.

2. You might think at first that the QS8s "aren't doing anything" because the sound is so diffuse -- but after a week or two you will probably conclude they are the best part of your system. Part of the QS8's "magic" is the ability to give the illusion that you are in a much bigger room -- just what you want for a home theater, particularly in a small room like yours.

sweeeet
i did notice the deepness which is good as my tv is in a converted sauder entertainment center. was ment for 27 inch then modded to fit a 35 inch than again for the 50 inch widescreen (over 12 years).
so the deepness work well so i can pull them out to match front of center without too much rooom behind (no worries with the 2 year old going behind them)