Hello All.
I posted about this a while back thinking my new Sanyo projector was the problem. NOT!!!
I have a Harman DVD 31 and a Harman DVD 47.
Both are jittering when my EP500 (soon to be 600) are playing any kind of BASS.
INTHEDECK (little brother) helped me install/mount my projector this weekend..thinking that the vibration would go away...but it wasnt the projector at all.
When playing a vast assortment of DVD's the screen flickers at any sign of BASS through the sub. I have tried moving the player around to no avail....
Does anyone have any ideas of material to put under the player so as to avoid the shake...
Thanks,
-Tarun
To me I find it hard to believe that two players would have the same effect? Are you using the same cables when you try both players. Maybe you have a bad cable that is bouncing around with the low bass. Since DVD players use laser, I can't believe the player would be skipping.
When you say flicker, are you saying to picture disappears and then comes back, kinda like when lightning strikes? Or are you saying it is stuttering/freezing for a short moment.
Oddly enough it is happening on both players.
We tried 2 sets of Component cables. One monster and one from monoprice. Same problem.
Its like when there is a bass effect, you see the video jitter...like a lightning strike...
When the sub is powered down or the volume set to 0 then there is no flickering.
Mind you..the M80's are set to large and the Vp150 plus all 4 qs8's are set to small. There is no jitter in this scenario...only when the sub comes on.
When the sub is on, what do you have the volume on the sub set to, and what is the dB level on the receiver for the sub? I can't believe that would matter, but just wondering. Also, how close are the DVD players to the sub?
You've got a weird one here Tarun.
Why do you think it is no longer the projector?
The volume on the sub is set very very low for testing...and I gradually increase it. The video shakes as soon as there is the slightest output from the sub. The AVR 7300 has the sub set down to -10db..I have adjusted it all the way to 0 to see if it would help.
The DVD players are in a cabinet on the floor about 6 feet away...maybe a little more.
I checked the projector by switching the video input to another mode to see if the projection was jittering...and 0... THE Dvd on the other hand would shake rattle and roll..
Definately a really weird situation, I must say. Once the sub was unplugged, we saw clear picture, etc. Once the sub started to shake the earth beneath us, the screen would begin displaying horizontal lines, until the bass wasn't as prevalent anymore.
I do recall Tarun saying (after my younger brother and I left) that he put his hand on the DVD-player, and that seemed to have gotted rid of the lines.
As a result, it's gotta be the DVD player...becuase he even tried it with the Xbox360 and there were no lines...correct me if I am wrong here?
Must say though, the projector really is cool...and the display is most amazing. And here, I thought my puny 32" LCD HDTV was something to write home about...hehe. NO more!
SQ.
Thats one test I forgot to mention. While gaming on an xbox 360 for a few short moments...there was no vibration in the picture.
Weird thing is that I had that DVD31 hooked up to a TV for ever without any such disturbance. ....The 47 is new..so it never saw the TV.
So your saying if you leave the DVD player where it is, and hook it up to a TV, it won't recreate the problem? Are the projector/sub all hooked to the same power bar and/or surge protector? Maybe there is some line interference. Also, I was thinking about magnetic interference since I don't think the subs are shielded, but I can't believe that would mess up a projector. Wierd Wierd Wierd....
SQ.
Exactly. The vibration never happened on the TV at all.
The projector and sub are on different surge protectors.
I dont know what else it could be....
The only other thing that is different is that the TV was a standard definition Toshiba rear projection. The projector is obviously 1080i and I am using faroujda upconversion on the HK AVR.
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I dont know what else it could be....
You're sure it's not shaking the screen or the wall your projection matte is on?
Bren R.
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I dont know what else it could be....
You're sure it's not shaking the screen or the wall your projection matte is on?
Bren R.
Nope...he's using a bare wall...for now, till his screen arrives. And if the wall were to shake that much...hmmm, I think he'd have other issues...
The kind of shaking we are seeing is not that of an object moving. Its almost like watching satellite television when a storm is coming...lightning snow noise type stuff.
I had the same problem with my Directv box and EP500. I moved the sub a little further away from the STB and the problem went away. I don't think it was a vibration problem as much as an electrical interference problem. I think it had to do with the way the cables ran along side each other. It was a strange effect on the screen, kind of what you would expect if you laid your head on the subwoofer while you were watching TV. The bass would "blur" your vision.
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Once the sub was unplugged, we saw clear picture, etc. Once the sub started to shake the earth beneath us, the screen would begin displaying horizontal lines, until the bass wasn't as prevalent anymore.
I do recall Tarun saying (after my younger brother and I left) that he put his hand on the DVD-player, and that seemed to have gotted rid of the lines.
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The kind of shaking we are seeing is not that of an object moving. Its almost like watching satellite television when a storm is coming...lightning snow noise type stuff.
Sounds to me like a type of grounding issue. If placing your hand on the DVD player stopped the lines, it is not necessariliy that you have isolated the physical vibrations from the DVD player but rather use your body as a ground to eliminate the "static".
This may be a sensitivity of the DVD player that the Xbox does not experience. Have you tried a different circuit? Power conditioner?
Interestingly enough, its not a blurred vision.
As for grounding...its plugged into a panamax line conditioner right now. I will try to move it to different power and see if that resolves the situation...but I dont think that just putting a hand on it resolved it. It was almost like it had to be held...like a baby.
As for interference....the video cables are all routed throgh the walls, the ceiling to the projector. The sub cable is on the floor going to the sub.
I didn't mean it acually blurred my vision but that was the effect it had on the picture. I'm with Bruce on trying another outlet if you have one available. When I moved my sub a little farther from my STB to remedy my situation I ended up plugging it into another outlet. That could do the trick.
I did move the sub to two locations and two different outlets.
Its got to be those DVD players....
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I did move the sub to two locations and two different outlets.
Its got to be those DVD players....
Note to self: Don't buy a HKDVD47.
Perhaps you can run an extension cord to your neighbor's house 
Can you find some thin foam rubber or packing foam to place your DVD on top of to partially isolate it from the vibration? I won't rule out a loose solder connection from a hot transistor that could be vibrated to cause the lines but you will have to make sure it is completely isolated; perhaps even running cables to an adjacent room.
Tarun,
I discussed this with our chief engineer, who designed the EP600 and EP500 amplifiers. He says that if you leave the EP500 powered up but reduce the volume to 0 and then gradually increase it--you said the jitter/interference appears at the point the 500 is outputting bass--then the problem is vibration-borne.
Try putting something very heavy (a brick?) on the top of each DVD player to see if that solves the problem. Are the DVD players up-scaling or up-converting? If so, the scaler/converter has to lock on to new sync, and if the video data stream from the DVD has glitches because of mechanical vibration of the DVD laser assembly or the motor/disc-clamping mechanism, then that could cause the intermittent video jitter.
The digital amplifiers in the EP500/600 subwoofers have no inherent RF energy that can interfere with DVD or projector operation, so I'm certain the problem is vibration-borne. Let me know how it turns out.
Regards,
Tarun,
Try running a set of component video cables directly from the DVD players to your projector to eliminate the possibility that an intermittent video cable inside the wall is being vibrated by the EP500. We had a couple of other cases where the EP500 was vibrating a video cable to the TV display, causing a visible "jitter" of the picture. The video cable hot or ground lead were at fault, and replacing the cable cured the problem.
Regards,
You wrote that your player was in a cabinet. I'll bet you've got some serious standing waves in there. I would pull the player out and, like Alan said, put a brink or several good-sized books on top and see what happens.
Does this happen with sources other than DVD? I'm still wondering about the projector and cabling.....
Thanks for the tips...they will be tested this evening.
My tests have been as follows:
1. Xbox 360 GAME Upconverting via my HK AVR7300.
(NO ISSUES)
2. DVD Upconverting via HK BASS Output from EP500
(VIBRATION)
3. DVD Upconverting via HK no Bass from Ep500
(ALL PERFECT - NO ISSUES)
4. DVD Upconverting via HK - Bass from EP500 but Video input on projector changed to see if it was a projector issue.
(ALL PERFECT - NO ISSUES)
Again..when I say vibration..its more like line noise. Not just shaking..but flutter in the image...like interference.
When i first got the projector it was on a table with the same exact results.
Let me try the brick/book theory - as well as changing to a higher location.
Results tomorrow.
Alan,
I did use 2 sets of component cables as well as an HDMI cable to test this issue out. The same results...a noisy jitter/flutter....
Tarun,
Thanks. I'm looking forward to see if the heavy book or brick helps.
Regards,
Very interesting!
Would putting some dense, closed cell foam (like mouspad stock) under the DVD player feet help? In addition to the always-stylish cinder block on top, of course.
Hey, waitaminute...
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4. DVD Upconverting via HK - Bass from EP500 but Video input on projector changed to see if it was a projector issue.
(ALL PERFECT - NO ISSUES)
So, there was one scenario in which you had EP500 playing during a DVD with no issues? Now, I am confused.
With the XBox test, was the Xbox constantly reading from a disk, or not? Is it house proximally to the DVD player?
Just scanned through quickly. Sorry if you have already tried this. Leave everything "as-is", except connect the projector DIRECTLY to the DVD player, bypassing the receiver. Could be a cold solder joint (bad connection) inside the receiver that "opens" with the vibration.
Here is a quick update.
I removed the DVD player from the cabinet it was on and tried it at different locations, heights. This seemed to help the situation quite a bit but not entirely.
Next step was to unplug the DVD player from my panamax line conditioner...which didnt help at all.
I tried heavy books and they also alleviated the situation a bit more. I changed cables etc etc....I have done it all and now have it to a point that it is bearable to watch the flutter.
My next steps are to borrow a different brand DVD player and see what the results are. I should have an update for us by tomorrow.
Thanks all for the advice.....
-Tarun
That was going to be my next suggestion.
Well here is the update.
1. Tried a different dvd player without any problems...so we know everything is good.
Why then are the HK dvd players experiencing this vibration?
Answer: POWER issues.
Solution: Borrowed a friends line conditioner and plugged all equipment into it....including my new EP600 instead of the 500. Voila....all fixed....atleast for now with the minimal testing I got done last night.
It would seem that the HK BEAST AVR and the SUB were sucking too much power away and thus the DVD players got the shaft.
-Tarun