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Posted By: agentfox1942 Sub-woofer placement - 02/19/07 07:24 PM
I've been reading Clint DeBoer's review of the Epic 80 system on audioholics.com and he talked about "crawling around on all fours" to locate the sweet spot for the sub. What does this entail? And is it really that hard to place a sub-woofer? I know room geometry matters, but I have a 12x22x8 room and I'm looking at buying the 350.Thans Mark
Posted By: FordPrefect Re: Sub-woofer placement - 02/19/07 07:49 PM
http://www.axiomaudio.com/tips_subwoofer_placement.html

That pretty much explains it all.
Posted By: real80sman Re: Sub-woofer placement - 02/19/07 08:58 PM
Welcome Mark.

As you guessed, the room dimensions should not be evenly divisible. I see that you are 12x22x8. That could pose some problems, and you most likely will have to do some acoustical treatments.
Posted By: agentfox1942 Re: Sub-woofer placement - 02/19/07 09:12 PM
I read the article (I should have looked there first) and it does answer my questions. Thanks for pointing me there. I'm confused about the dimensions not being evenly devisable?? Is this a "rule-of-thumb" or some hidden mystical code held closely between audiophiles like the secrets of the mason's?
Posted By: SirQuack Re: Sub-woofer placement - 02/19/07 10:14 PM
12ft x 12ft x 12ft is not good

24ft x 12ft x 6ft is not good

22ft x 12ft x 8ft YOUR room, I don't think you will have to many problems, unless you have bare walls.
Posted By: real80sman Re: Sub-woofer placement - 02/19/07 10:35 PM
Normally, we don't give this info out until you've been officially indoctrinated into the society, but you seem like a nice guy.....

Ok, think of a beer case, eh. Now as you know, the beers are arranged 4 abreast and 6 long. 6 times 4 is 24 - no problem. In fact, its a beauty. But 6 divided by 4 is 1.5. Any beer drinker knows that it is physically impossible to drink 1.5 beer. No bout a doubt it, you are going to drink the full 2 beer, eh. That leaves you with 22 beer. (Unless your buddy Blair is over, then there would be 20) Now, 20 divided by 6 is 3.3. Do you see the patern taking shape here? There is no easy solution but to drink the whole box, bye. And that's were the problem lies, eh.

So there you go. Now you understand why the room dimensions are so important.

Actually, it has to do with the wavelengths of certain frequencies.

Quote:

If the wavelength of a particular note happens to be the same, or an even fraction (1/2, 1/3, ¼, etc.) as one of the room’s dimensions, there’ll be a standing wave created. Standing waves cause certain frequencies to be accentuated at various locations in the room and reduced in others. Basically it can cause one seat in the room have great sound and another to have very poor sound.

In order to reduce the effects of standing waves, it is best to have the room follow certain dimensional ratios. (ratios of HxWxL). First of all, run & hide from a room that is a perfect cube. You should avoid rooms with any ratios that are perfect multiples of each other. An example of a poor room would be a 15’ x 20’ room with a 10’ ceiling. Some good ratios are 1 x 1.3 x 1.7 or 1 x 1.3 x 1.9 or .9 x 1.3 x 1.6. It is easier to work with a rectangular room because the good speaker and seating locations are easier to predict.





Posted By: real80sman Re: Sub-woofer placement - 02/19/07 10:58 PM
Quote:

12ft x 12ft x 12ft is not good

24ft x 12ft x 6ft is not good

22ft x 12ft x 8ft YOUR room, I don't think you will have to many problems, unless you have bare walls.




See, there you go. I was reading 12x22, but my brain kept thinking 12x24. I should just stop posting today, and go to bed.
Posted By: MarkSJohnson Re: Sub-woofer placement - 02/20/07 12:18 AM
Quote:

Ok, think of a beer case, eh.




Posted By: Ray3 Re: Sub-woofer placement - 02/20/07 05:29 PM
I am getting absolutely NO LFE from my beer (well, maybe a little bit the next day ). The bigger disappointment is that my subwoofer doesn't dispense beer.
Posted By: agentfox1942 Re: Sub-woofer placement - 02/22/07 09:51 PM
wow.. who ever knew listing to music or movies was so complicated. I guess that's why a bottle of Johnnie Walker is rectangular - better acoustics when the scotch hits the ice and slides into the glass like my hands over the curves of a womans great pair of hips .... oh, was that out loud??
Posted By: jakewash Re: Sub-woofer placement - 02/28/07 04:44 AM
Here's another way to think of it, your entire room becomes the inside of a speaker, so to say. Alot of speaker companies try very hard to design unique cases to stop standing waveforms(Axioms design does this) so if your room is perfectly/evenly shaped you could have this standing waveform problem.
Posted By: axiom_man Re: Sub-woofer placement - 03/05/07 06:42 PM
"12ft x 12ft x 12ft is not good
24ft x 12ft x 6ft is not good
22ft x 12ft x 8ft YOUR room, I don't think you will have too many problems, unless you have bare walls."
But these have a common devisor by 2's. Or
21x12x9 by 3

Isn’t the idea to have no divisible lengths...... 23x13x7 or 23x12x7 or 19x11x8?

Posted By: JohnK Re: Sub-woofer placement - 03/06/07 03:41 AM
Troy, the significant factor actually isn't not having a common divisor, but rather not having the dimensions be the same or exact multiples of each other. So, the 22'x12'x8' room dimensions all being divisible by 2 isn't significant; they have the relationship of 2.75x1.5x1, which is okay.
Posted By: SirQuack Re: Sub-woofer placement - 03/06/07 10:42 PM
It is also important that the numbers aren't divisable by themselves easily

12 does not go into 22
8 does not go into 12 or 22
Posted By: bridgman Re: Sub-woofer placement - 03/07/07 03:22 AM
If you're fundamentally lazy like me, you can download the "Graphical Mode Calculator" from Ethan Winer's "RealTraps" site, plug in some room dimensions, and look at the graphs to see how the different room resonances pile up at different frequencies.

An ideal room has the resonances (modes) evenly spaced. Nobody has an ideal room unless it was designed and built from scratch for audio use, so don't worry if they bunch up in a couple of places. Those will be the "problem" frequencies and you can do things with subwoofer placement to help with them.

http://www.realtraps.com/info.htm
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