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Posted By: hmerchen M60s sound muffled - 04/17/07 03:09 PM
I upgraded to M60s from M40s, and the 40s sound better (I still have them and do side by side comparisons)...the 60s sound muffled. I'm running a Pioneer 1014tx amp and I'm wondering if this is a speaker problem or an underpowered amp issue? Any help would be appreciated as I am horribly disappointed by my purchase as present...
Posted By: real80sman Re: M60s sound muffled - 04/17/07 03:14 PM
Sorry to hear you're having problems. I guess the first thing to ask is if you have eliminated the obvious. When you put your ear up to the tweeters & mids, is there sound coming out? The odd time a wire will come loose during shipping. The other thing to check is that the speakers aren't wired out of phase.
Posted By: SirQuack Re: M60s sound muffled - 04/17/07 04:51 PM
Obviously there is something wrong, the 60's are by far better performers than the 40's. Did you leave the bi-amp clips in place between the speaker wire terminals? The 60's are also very easy to drive, the receiver should have not problems.

Are you running an Auto Setup EQ on the receiver, if so turn it off.
Posted By: alan Re: M60s sound muffled - 04/17/07 05:37 PM
hmerchen,

Make sure the two gold straps that link the woofer section with the midrange/tweeters at the speaker connectors on the back of the M60s are electrically making contact. It's easy to dislodge them when you first connect speaker cable. Then check that each driver is operating by putting your ear close to each driver. Use music with lots of bass, high frequencies and vocals that will let you confirm that the tweeter, midrange and woofers are operating.

In most cases like this, it's the gold "bi-wiring" links that are not making electrical contact. I'm certain that all you are hearing are the woofers in your M60s, which would account for the muffled sound.

The M60s have significantly more midrange and higher-octave output, making them clearer and more detailed than the M40s tonal balance.

Regards,
Posted By: pmbuko Re: M60s sound muffled - 04/17/07 05:42 PM
One more thing to check is to make sure the speakers are wired in phase. Make sure the positive side of each cable is connected to the red terminals on both ends. I was comparing M3s and M80s to each other last year and had one pair connected out-of-phase. It really flattens the sound.
Posted By: JohnK Re: M60s sound muffled - 04/18/07 01:46 AM
HM, welcome. Pay especial attention to Alan's point about the connecting straps on the speaker terminals. This has happened here at least twice(two have admitted it)in the past few years. The connectors were loose, and since their previous speakers(like your M40s)didn't have two sets of speaker terminals, they didn't realize the necessity for having them tightly connected. Unless both your M60s have internal wires loose(highly unlikely), this is the first thing to suspect(your 1014 almost certainly has more than enough power for the M60s, which don't require any more than the M40s). Your M60s have excellent high frequency response.
Posted By: SirQuack Re: M60s sound muffled - 04/18/07 02:09 AM
Hey, I mentioned the connecting straps before Alan.
Posted By: bridgman Re: M60s sound muffled - 04/18/07 02:23 AM
For amusement only (both of these came from real posts) :

1. Are you sure you took the M60s out of the box ? They do sound muffled in the box.

2. Is there any chance you have a sofa in front of the M60s ?

Seriously, I have both M40s and M60s -- if you like the 40s and you find the 60s muffled, something is *definitely* wrong, either with the 60s themselves or the way they are hooked up.
Posted By: JohnK Re: M60s sound muffled - 04/18/07 03:29 AM
HM, I'm also urging you to pay special attention to Randy's point about the connecting straps(aka "bi-amp clips", but don't use them for that).
Posted By: hmerchen Re: M60s sound muffled - 04/18/07 02:39 PM
I've double checked the binding posts, reconnected the wires, ensured that the polarity is correct, and they are still more muffled than the m40's. I can hear sound coming from the drivers. Should I take the drivers and tweeters out to make sure all wires are properly connected inside, or would that be a waste of time? Thanks for all the assistance...just very, very frustrated at this point...
Posted By: SirQuack Re: M60s sound muffled - 04/18/07 02:58 PM
Are you sure you don't have MCACC autosetup adjusted for the m40's, and have not rerun it for the m60's? You may want to reset the receiver and start over. Also, if your using the EQ part of the setup, turn it off, it will make the speakers sound worse in my opinion. The auto setup is good for dB levels, distance, and polarity check, and that is about it.

Do you have another receiver, or can you borrow one, that you can temporarily try to rule out the receiver? You have a strange issue going on, hope we can figure it out, if not Axiom I'm sure will help you.

If your careful, there is nothing wrong with removing the drivers to make sure everything is correct and that no wires have jiggled loose. But if your having the problem with BOTH speakers this is unlikely.

You also don't mention how you have your receiver calibrated and crossover settings set for the lows?
Posted By: Ken.C Re: M60s sound muffled - 04/18/07 04:23 PM
Calling Axiom might also help. Their support is generally very good.
Posted By: bridgman Re: M60s sound muffled - 04/19/07 11:59 AM
I would call Axiom before taking anything apart.
Posted By: PDXGuy Re: M60s sound muffled - 04/19/07 04:40 PM
If installed correctly, the M60s are anything but muffled sounding. Your Pioneer should drive them well. If wired correctly (correct polarity, no shorts, bi-amp clips in place and tight) then I'm thinking it's a receiver issue as Randy is suggesting. You might want to reset the receiver to factory and try running the calibration again.

I had to replace a driver in one of my M60s; trust me, they're wired in tight.

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