... and why or why not axiom??

OK folks, if I can get Monday off I'm going for a little roadtrip north.

So, when I'm evaluating the M22 + sub vs M60, which sub should it be?

My system will be for music first and then 5.1 down the road so I am most interested in good performance for music listening.

Having grown up in the stereo world, I have a hard time getting my head around paying 500+ for a sub.

Maybe I need to listen to the 125 175 and 350???

The only movie I own is the LOTR trilogy. Any suggestions which movie and which scene(s) would give a sub a good workout?

One thing I have noticed is that a lot of folks here go with other subs. On casual reading it looks like companies like svs offer a lot more bang for the buck (I know, all reviews are subjective).

Off to work I go...

P.S. Looking forward to listening to all that base on Monday. Wonder if I can find a local resaurant that serves up bass to get me in the mood.

I would have the new 350 on your list, my initial impression is very positive, thunderous performance.

How big is the room/ Not that it matters a whole lot the EP350v3, EP500 and 600 should be the main ones to listen to.

You could also check out the new Paradigm DSP subs. I just had one for the weekend and compared the smaller DSP-3100 to the Ep350V3 with good results. The EP350 was the stronger of the 2 subs but the little 3100 did almost as good a job for music, but it couldnt pressurize the room enough for HT use. I suspect the 3200 with its 12 in. driver would be very comparable.

A good scene from LOTR is when they cut the ring off of the big scary guys hand.

A big "WHOOOOOOSH" extends over the battle field and then his helmet hits the ground with a loud "THUD"

Very cool sounding on my m80's and ep500.

That's the scene I have been using while checking out various subs as well as the U-571 depth charge scene.

Well, the 600 is out of the question due to that other WAF (wallet approval factor). My room is only 12 x 20 x 8, not tiny, but not that big.

The image of M22s with am ep600 seems a little bizzare (if M22s is the route I go). That combo would certainly catch peoples attention though.

It is interesting that nobody suggested the ep175. Not enough oomph?

I hadn't even thought about that scene. I was thinking about the cave Troll scene in Moria because there is a lot of noise and thumping going on.

Have a listen to one when you are there and let us know what you think of the EP175. But you are correct in you assumption.

I have had the chance recently to hear the EP350v2 and it isn't much better, if at all, than my 12 yr old D-Box sub, so I would guess the 175 is even less impressive.

Interesting. The 350v2 is supposed to be a lot better than the old 350.

That's the V3 is better than the V2. The V2 is the older one.

surely the V2 was better than the V1 as well!

I'd say go with the ep350 (or 500 if you can swing it.)

If you order from the factory outlet the ep350 is aprox. $680 i think.

The 350 would be great for music now, and then 5.1 HT later (according to everything I have been hearing about it.)

If it were me I would go with the EP 350 or equivelent sub. another scene from LOTR is at the bridge with the demon.

I think your room is big enough that you would want no smaller than the new ep350. You can't go to big because you should calibrate it to the levels required in your room anyways but too small could leave you wanting more.

I understand the pricing issue. Many people have been reporting that they are very happy with alternatives from SVS and HSU. That being said, once you hear the Axiom subs, you will have a hard time leaving without one. I love my 500 but the new 350 sounds like it will be a real competitor in the lower price range.

Oops, meant v3. OK, I'm gonna listen to the 175 and 350 to get a sense of the difference.

Hmm... maybe I could just watch a complete movie while I'm there. Must remember popcorn.

I was reading this thread last night and thought, "Hey I should watch 'Fellowship' again and pay more attention to the LFE now that I have my 350v3". With the sub set at 10 o'clock and 0dB on the Rx there were quite a few scenes that sent vibrations up the back of my chair. I was only able to watch the first disc as it was getting towards 10:00 and didn't want the rumbling to knock the neighbors out of bed!

Although it was almost twice as much as my Paradigm PDR10 I'd say it is at least twice as good. In my opinion, you can get by on smaller subs for music (or none at all with tower speakers) but if you have any intention of going HT you might as well go with the bigger guns now (unless you are also intending on setups in multiple rooms and can demote the sub to the secondary system as I did).

A thing to note for the average Canuck is that we don't have as ready access to the lower prices and shipping on new SVS and Hsu. The lowest SVS (PB10) is $499+shipping (from $20-60) from Sonicboom. The lowest Hsu (STF-1) is $400+? from hi-fidelity.com, the Canadian distributor. The 350 is $750 shipped ($675 from the FO) and is statistically closer (I haven't heard them) to the VTF-3 ($999+?) or PB12 ($699+ $25-68).

I wouldn't put the 350V3 up there with the HSU's just yet, ctown's STF3 pounds much harder than the 350V3, but the 350v3 has smoother more musical note to it,IMO

I was thinking one of the HSU's was included in Alan's AB testing.

I'll take me some musical smoothness.

Don't discount the Hsu's ability to blend in very well with the Axioms. For around $200 less, that would be the VTF 2 MK2, one should at least consider the Hsu subs.

Alan was somewhat vague as he said 3 capital letters, SVS is usually capitalized while Hsu shouldn't be but quite often is.

When he mentioned the "clumsy" 3 letter brand, I guess the first thing that came to mind is those HSU's with twin eyeball ports sticking out the top.

Yeah, "clumsy" would certainly seem to refer to the "Turbocharger".

The fight with the Balrog at The Bridge of Khazad-dum is one of my favorites. The whole trip through the Mines of Moria is great both for surround sound and LFE.

Yeeeehaaaaw... finally got an internet connection at work. Well, sorta. There seem to be some wierd timeout issues.

Seems like there is a lot of agreement on the mines of Morea scenes being good.

Is it my imagination, or have companies been upping the anty (sp??)on subs of late?

On another sub thread, someone mentioned other summary review sources besides craidsub's list. Where can I find these reviews? I want to get more of a feel for the various options for a sub.

Its been a good news, bad news, good news kinda night. I got Monday off , found out that I will be working Saturdays for the next month and figured out just what that means in overtime pay.

I may just be able to afford my first audio acquisition much earlier than I thought.

HomeTheaterShack has a sub review complete with graphs, done not so scientifically, they do the testing outside.

Most of the review lists I have seen seem to list most of the same ones in different orders with a number of the same ones at the top of the list, so it still comes down to what you like in a sub; meaning you have to hear it in your environment and price.

So what's the first purchase going to be Fred?

I think he is going for the epic 80/600 7.4 system to start things off.

I don't know, I just can't get that vision of the M22s with and ep600 sitting between them out of my head.

From what I have read so far, and from the speakers I have listened to so far, probably the M60. Unless...

Any comparisons you guys want me to make while I'm at Axiom?

Fred